blakep82
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 11:56 AM |
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salary problems at work, what can i do now?!
i'm getting fed up of being screwed over by my employer, the Royal bank of Scotland... I get paid £3000 less per year than the people i stared
with despite doing the same job. each year you get a review of your performance. If you get a rating of 2 you don't get a payrise, 3 and
above you do. i got a 2 for the last 2 years :blush: oops. however, it turns out that 2 people i started with also got 2s, but got a payrise last
year. remeber you get a 2, you don't get a payrise. all the managers ever say is, 'oh, its different circumstances'. i think i
should at least get cost of living/inflation increase. i got paid today a i just happen to have got a small bit extra, £11 which just happens to be an
extra 1%, which is a proper wee take...
what shall i do about it now?
below is a letter i sent to the human resources dept twice now, and have not heard anything back, which really doesn't surprise me. origianlly
sent 5 weeks ago. sorry, its quite long :wink:
quote:
Having worked for the group for 2 years now in the mortgage centre in Greenock, I was disappointed to find that yet again I have not received a
pay rise. While I understand that if you get a 2 for your end of year rating then you do not receive one, I find it disgusting that we do not even get
a small cost of living pay rise. I have been discussing this with my managers for a year now, as last year when the ‘Job families’ came in I had been
advised by my, then, team manager that in 3 months time, my pay would increase from approx £11k per year, to reflect the clerical B position (approx
£14k per year). I waited and nothing happened. I brought this up again, and was told that actually this was incorrect and I would have to wait for
next year’s end of year review. I brought this up several times during the year to no avail, as I had been promised I would get a rise. Knowing that I
was getting paid much less than everyone else, and doing the exact same job, brought my morale down and felt unappreciated. Still, I worked on getting
at least a 3 for the next year. Last year was a very tough year, and I worked as hard as I could but apparently this was not enough and I was given
another 2 at the end of last year. Again no pay rise. Speaking to my colleague sitting across from me we got talking about wages, I mentioned this to
her, and she said she got 2 for both end of year ratings (we started at the same time) yet she got a pay rise this time last year. This is also with
her getting a disciplinary. I raised this with one of the team managers, she told me there was someone in her team who got 2s and also a pay rise, and
I have heard from friends of another person who also got one. That’s at least 3 people in my department. The manager who I spoke to said she’d
investigate; her response was “It’s because of different circumstances”. What difference circumstances? We all got 2s for both end of year ratings. In
all this has been refered to 5 team managers, and 2 CSMs, the response each time was, we’ll look into it and get back to you. I also read recently
that the cleaners in the London city office are on a higher wage.
To say I feel undervalued is an understatement, and since starting with the bank I’ve had nothing but trouble, for example 5 weeks after starting, and
already in my first team after my training, I received a letter from HR, which had no postage paid on it (so I had to pay £2 for it) telling me what
to take on my first day. I have my wages paid to another bank (which is the way I’m keeping it) and had to open an account when I applied for a loan
for a new car (which I bought on the understanding I’d get a pay rise last year, and I’m now stuck with the car and can’t afford it) My loan was
declined of income (it was only £2000 over 3 years) yet no-one wrote to me to let me know of this, I had to call in to chase it. I now know how our
customers feel. I went to northern rock and had a loan agreed on a better rate than I was offered with RBS, within 2 weeks. With no money going into
the RBS account, and none coming out, I didn’t check my bank statements. After 3 months I found I had 3 overdrawn charges and fees for a bank account
I was supposed to get free as a staff member. I called Yourbank, they said this would be looked into, and a manager would call me back. I never got
this either. These are just a few things…
Now with regards to the way we are treated at work, again it’s not good. We are on the phones all day every day, with only 15 minutes a day for
breaks. You feel cooped up like battery hens. When the calls got busy last year we were questioned as to where we are going when we used our break
time. This year it’s not much better, we get the phone beeping in our ear after a call if it’s more than a minute between one call to the next. This
doesn’t give us enough time to provide a reasonable level of customer service as we are not being allowed the proper time to update the notes and send
any messages to teams as required. A pilot scheme has been set up where they are not being given ANY time between calls for notes and resolving
customer concerns. This, I assume, is to have us taking more calls. The main thing holding us back between calls is the awful GMS system
(Clearview/summit in particular) which can often take up to 1:30 to simply add a note when not being sent to a team, and it seems pressure is being
put on to us to compensate for the slow systems, rather than spending money and improving the systems. Also, instead of sorting out the real problems
within the centre and low morale, people are being given disciplinaries for things like smoking outside in their own time.
I do not want my comments fed back to the centre manager as this would probably lead to me being called to his office for a stern talking to, but want
all my feeling to be made clear. I would like the main issue for this letter, my salary, addressed and look forward to hearing back from you soon.
________________________
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 12:10 PM |
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Haven't read everything above, but I should point out that since I started working in engineering (industrial, steelworks and extrusion) I have
had only 1 pay rise FULL STOP!!!!!!
We get NO cost of living, NO inflation rise etc etc etc.
The only way I have got more money (which i hasten to add I have!! ) is by changing jobs or threatening to leave.
That's the only way to see if the company really values you or not. Cut through all the crap, get an interview or two elsewhere, then threaten
to leave and name your price to stay (whilst backing that up with your alternative offers) I have done this three times now in 7 years and each time
my employer has offered me a salary increase "in secret" without informing other employees.
Working in an industry that paid yearly increases is a dream that just never happens in UK engineering. If you do get these things, think yourself
very lucky!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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flak monkey
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 12:12 PM |
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Where is the HR dept? I assume its not in the same building?
I get the idea that this is a fairness issue, rather than just a problem about payrises.
You need to talk to your manager - or as high up as you can get, make it official and not an 'as and aside' kind of comment. Request a
formal meeting to discuss your problem(s), and ensure that something gets done about it. If the management and HR are good, and in a company the size
of RBS they should be, they will take it seriously and investigate.
If it is true that some people who are being assessed the same as yourself and are still getting payrises, then this is not fair, and you need to make
this clear to your employer. You want to know what they plan to do to resolve any issues, and by when, and you want a written and signed agreement
stating that from one of the managers.
If your line manager won't help you, take it to the next level up, and complain about him/her as well. Managers are there to provide personal
support to their staff, and to deal with any issues they have, though most of them dont seem to realise this and think the extra money they get is so
they can sit on their arse all day.
I dont know what hours you work, but if its under 5 you legally are not entitled to a break. If its 8 hours you have to have at least 20mins.
David
[Edited on 18/5/07 by flak monkey]
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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NS Dev
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 12:15 PM |
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I will add i have had nothing against the companies I have worked for (apart from a couple of staff at each one, nothing major) and have emphasised
this at the point of threatening to leave.
As is clear from my staying on a matched salary offer, I did want to stay, but sometimes they need a kick to get your pay up to reality.
Fact is, any company worth its salt will pay as little as possible while not losing its GOOD staff. (the bad ones stay whatever as they can't go
elsewhere! )
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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whitestu
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 12:27 PM |
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As said before, get another job offer and give them the option of presuading you to stay.
Either way you won't loose out.
It has worked for me several times.
stu
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blakep82
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 12:41 PM |
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NS Dev, i understand where you're coming from with no cost of living etc, but the main point of this is that there;s people who are getting paid
£3000 more per year than i am for the same job. it unfair, and incosistant.
Flak, your right, its about unfair differences in pay, i've raised it with my manager (and the last 3 managers i've had) and he raised it
with his manager also. his manager is kind of 2nd highest in the centre, and i don't feel i can take this to the centre manager. if you ever met
him... he's rude, arrogant etc, and he once looked at me and shook his head for no apparent reason.
this is why i've now taken it to HR.this has been going on for about a year now.
and calvin & stu, I'd love another job, i really want to get out of there, but before i do, i want the money that (as i see it) is due to me
from this unfair difference in pay (worth about £2500), and i'd happily leave, and wouldn't care if they then offer a rise.
i'm disappointed that HR aren't even acknowledging my letter...
[Edited on 18/5/07 by blakep82]
________________________
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Phil.J
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 12:48 PM |
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Join the relevant union! With a large employer I doubt that yours is an isolated case.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 12:48 PM |
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Take it to the centre manager anyway whether you think he likes you or not is irrelevant. Like I said, managers have a duty of care to their
employees. Make your problems clear to him and tell him what you see to be the solutions. Ask him for his opinion on the matter, the worst he can say
is bugger off.
If he is unwilling to help, then hand in your resignation, along with a formal complaint letter to HR they can't ignore it then.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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fesycresy
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 12:52 PM |
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I've got to agree with CaLviNx, don't bitch, if you don't like it ship out.
Everyone at my place gets a set rise. Some years they don't get anything. I go in, see the MD and negotiate a pay rise, every year - without
fail.
Take the bull by the nutsack and all that, if your not happy f*ck the letters, go and talk to someone in power.
Good luck.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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blakep82
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 12:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
Ask him for his opinion on the matter, the worst he can say is bugger off.
interestingly, my manager said he agreed with me... didn't think he was allowed to
________________________
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iank
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 01:03 PM |
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You wouldn't happen to be younger or older than the others that have been given rises? (or indeed different gender etc.)
That's now illegal and HR departments are very hot on their company not being dragged into court for the inevitable test cases, especially one
like RBS who will hit the 9 o'clock news if it happens.
Finally you need to be honest with yourself about why you are getting '2's, is it a company wide strategy to keep wages down, or is there
a reason you/your manager don't agree about your work performance? The centre manager knowing who you are and doing the shaking head thing
mean, to me, that something has been said to him about you by someone - that is very bad and probably means your only option is to leave.
Flak: You may be a little naive about 'bugger off' being the worst that could happen. Always easier to get another job when in a job,
and going through the unfair dismissal route makes you radioactive as far as other employers are concerned if they find out.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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blakep82
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 01:10 PM |
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ok, so, i'm in the call centre for RBS mortgages, last year i didn;t have a single day off sick, all of my targets were met, except for how many
call i took each day. its supposed to be at least 70 per day. now one girl (in her 40s) who got a payrise i'm sure had a few days off sick and
took less calls than i did and got a 2. as far as i can tell shes still not meeting 70 a day where i am. the other girl (in her early 20s) got it
desipite having a diciplinary for illness at the beginning of last year and getting a 2.
one of the managers told me there was someone in her team who got a payrise when they shouldn't have, but didn;t say who it was so i know
nothing about that person.
________________________
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flak monkey
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 01:13 PM |
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He cant be unfairly dismissed for making a complaint - he has done nothing wrong. Simple as that. As long as its a genuine complaint, which it sounds
like to me, then i cannot see anythin worse happening than the manger ignoring it. In which case I would simple look for another job, and start a
formal complaint.
Theres nothing to lose IMO.
Naive, yes probably, but I am saying it the way I see it. Interestingly we covered quite alot about this sort of stuff this year in a quality module
(something about a happy workforce gives you better quality goods and services - which should in theory at least be true), and what rights you have as
an employee and then what duty of care you should expect from your employer. Granted theres only one side of the story here, but it seems to me that
he is the one being unfairly treated, and as such has every right to complain until his voice is heard.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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iank
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 01:46 PM |
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Maybe I shouldn't be so cynical. You are right according to both law and common sense.
But p*ss off an arrogant tw*t who's been set up to dislike you for whatever reason and they will find a way to fire you, sometimes not even
pretending to follow HR procedures. They really don't care if you get awarded a couple of thousand in the courts, it's not even off their
budget.
I had the misfortune to work for someone like that before (pretty sure the guy was a full on sociopath to be honest) never again.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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clockwork
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 01:57 PM |
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Go get another job. Easier when you have one already. It shows initiative 
Good luck.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 02:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
Maybe I shouldn't be so cynical. You are right according to both law and common sense.
But p*ss off an arrogant tw*t who's been set up to dislike you for whatever reason and they will find a way to fire you, sometimes not even
pretending to follow HR procedures. They really don't care if you get awarded a couple of thousand in the courts, it's not even off their
budget.
I had the misfortune to work for someone like that before (pretty sure the guy was a full on sociopath to be honest) never again.
I can see your point, and dont think you are cynical at all (ok, well maybe a little  ). You are quite right the 'real world' can stab
you in the back on occasion.
At the end of the day it comes down to the amount of effort you are willing to put in. Sometimes it is just easier to apply for another job and stick
two fingers up at your old employer as you leave (after you have your reference and have the other job secured of course ).
Depends what your personal motivation is really. Personally, I would do what I have said before. Then if nothing happens quit, and make a big fuss
about it as I do it as well.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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Phil.J
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 02:06 PM |
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Be very careful if you are using your office pc to carry out this correspondence, they may use it against you if you are pissing them off!
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blakep82
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 02:08 PM |
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no, i'm doing it all from home... you'd get shot for doing anything other than work there. even a quick drink can be frowned upon.
seriously...
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donut
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 02:35 PM |
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CaLviNx is spot on!!
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 02:59 PM |
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At the risk of being called sexist and even though I did not read all of your letter one quote did it for me
quote:
Speaking to my colleague sitting across from me we got talking about wages, I mentioned this to her, and she said she
Seems to be a lot of hers and she's involved. It's not balls you need it's a big pair of tits.
Joking asides it must be frustrating/annoying and if no answers are forthcoming to your letter the answer lies in your hands alone.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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Rek
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 03:52 PM |
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You have to leave. because there's no good outcome either way;
1: You get the pay rise and carry on working there p***ed off you had to fight for it.
2: You dont get the pay rise and carry on working there p***ed off you didnt get it despite trying
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Keith Weiland
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 03:58 PM |
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You have a U2U
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smart51
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 04:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
there;s people who are getting paid £3000 more per year than i am for the same job. it unfair, and incosistant.
That's how big companies work. They don't pay "the job" but "the person". They want to pay as little as they
can. They pay what they need to in order to convince you to take the job and then as little as they can get away with to stop you leaving, if they
care whether you stay. Your starting salary is often a percentage higher than your last job. You will find in most large companies that there are
wildly different salaries for people doing the same job.
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 04:44 PM |
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Only £3000 pounds differance  Im the employees rep and we are fighting differances
of 10 to 15 thousand. However we are in a group consulation so we have more power.
As an individual the companys have little compassion and possibly moving in the group to a new job / position is one way out.
Changing a job is the other way, however you look at it job for life is a long gone thing.
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blakep82
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| posted on 18/5/07 at 07:01 PM |
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well i'm glad 3 grand is nothing to you! it happens to be a lot to me though!
i know another job is needed, and i would love to get out of there, but i want the money thats due to me first, because i beleive it is due to me.
they can't justify a difference like that, especially when people who have disciplinaries and high absense get a pay rise, where i have 100%
attendance and no disciplinaries and i am not worth it...
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