craig1410
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 posted on 3/8/07 at 11:12 AM |
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Roundabout lane laws?
Hi,
Does anyone know what the road traffic laws are when approaching a 3 lane roundabout from 2 lanes?
Specifically, I'm talking about a roundabout in Pollock in Glasgow where the immediate approach (ie. last 30 yards before roundabout) was
widened a little while back to provide an extra lane.
Previously it was a 2 lane approach but now there is a 3rd and it causes no end of confusion.
It is clear that if you want to go left you use lane 1 on approach and keep left and if you want to go right you use lane 2 on approach and keep right
into lane 3 for the last 30 yards. The confusion comes from the use of the new middle lane - nobody seems to know if you have right of way from lane 1
of the 2 lane dual carriageway or from lane 2. Neither have a clear right of way as the new middle lane is right down the middle of the two approach
lanes.
The markings on the road for the new 3 lane section are: left+straight, straight, right only respectively.
So, who has right of way into the new middle lane on approach?
1. Lane 1 of dual carriageway
2. Lane 2 of dual carriageway
3. Neither
I only ask because someone nearly scuttled me last night and to be honest I don't know who was right and who was wrong...
Cheers,
Craig.
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gingerprince
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 11:16 AM |
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in these situations it's usually the guy with the cheapest/banger car that gets right-of-way 
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 11:22 AM |
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Don't really understand how the new lane can just appear without either the left lane splitting into two or the right lane splitting into
two.
Noramally you get either this:
code:
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or the mirror image. Given what you say about the usage of the lanes, it seems like it would be the left lane that divides into two (ie standard
roundabout rules on the initial two lanes, left lane for left or straight-on and right lane for right).
[Edited on 3/8/07 by matt_claydon]
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GazzaP
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 11:23 AM |
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Lane 2 for the people who arn't sure where the are going?
www.gmpmotorsport.co.uk
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RazMan
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 11:24 AM |
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Difficult in this type of situation. We have a similar round about in Colchester and it's always a free-for-all on the approach. In the end it
comes down to common sense but sadly a lot of drivers are lacking in this department 
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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craig1410
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 11:24 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gingerprince
in these situations it's usually the guy with the cheapest/banger car that gets right-of-way
LOL, I guess that was me then - mine's a SEAT Cupra R225 and the other guy was in an S-Type Jaguar...
The only problem was that someone shot up my left hand side so I couldn't go back that way when I saw the S-Type coming towards me. I just had
to hold my course knowing that he had room on his right to move over.
As you will have guessed, I approached in the left lane and moved to the middle lane just before the roundabout. He was in the right hand lane and was
moving towards the middle lane at the RB. Neither of us were indicating as we both believed we had the natural approach.
Cheers,
Craig.
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craig1410
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 11:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_claydon
Don't really understand how the new lane can just appear without either the left lane splitting into two or the right lane splitting into
two.
It's more like this:
code:
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With no clear split as such.
Crazy!
[Edited on 3/8/2007 by craig1410]
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smart51
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 11:32 AM |
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The usual rule for a 3 line island is that the left hand lane must turn off at the next junction. The middle lane then moves to the left and must
turn off at the second exit. Traffic in the right hand lane can then move to the middle ready for the 3rd exit or stay right for later exits. Where
an exit has 2 lanes, you can turn left from the middle lane on the island onto the right hand lane of the exit.
Most people are to stupid / careless / arrogant to follow the rules. I saw a near miss where someone in the left hand lane of an island wanted to
turn right at the same time as a parrallel car in the 3rd lane wanted to go left. Neither car was indicating and they only just avoided a
collision.
As for pulling from a 2 lane road onto a 3 lane island, I'd presume an equal right for the middle lane. Left hand lane traffic should
reasonably expect to be able to go straight on at any junction unless the lane is marked turning left only.
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 11:36 AM |
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Fair enough, white lines must have been painted by an idiot 
I would say left lane has priority going into middle lane as this is standard roundabout practice for two-lane approach. Left for L / SO, right for R
and full-circle. Don't see why people in the right lane should have any claim over the middle, as if they wanted to go straight on they
shouldn't have been in the right lane on the approach.
You should write to the council and get the markings changed as they're asking for accidents to happen.
[Edited on 3/8/07 by matt_claydon]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 11:45 AM |
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Must be a Scottish thing...
On the road between Nairn and Inverness, near the airport, there's a roundabout with the most ridiculous markings I have EVER seen - lanes
crossing over and generally going in random directions.
Everybody else must have been confused, 'cos no-one paid any attention to the markings and generally went their own sensible way. In fact, it
worked better that way...
David
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Rek
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 11:46 AM |
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My parents have a friend in roads planning somewhere in kent, designing layouts etc.. (I wont say exactly where) I have alway's found it funny
that he doesnt drive and dislikes cars..
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Peteff
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 11:49 AM |
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How many exits? r
If it's a 2 lane exits left lane for first exit, middle lane for straight on and right, right lane for right exit. Don't use your
indicators under any circumstances, they are a total giveaway. 
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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craig1410
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 11:55 AM |
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Guys,
The roundabout has 5 exits in total. I am approaching from one of them and there is a clear left, a clear right and two "straight ahead"
exits. The roundabout is three lanes.
Here is a link to a google map of the RB in question. This was taken before they "upgraded" it to three lanes on the
approach in question:
For reference, I am talking about approaching from the 11 oclock position and exiting on the half past 3 exit. To make room for the 3 lanes they took
a chunk of the grass away on the left hand side as you approach and narrowed the other lanes slightly.
Cheers,
Craig.
[Edited on 3/8/2007 by craig1410]
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Fozzie
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 12:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Must be a Scottish thing...
On the road between Nairn and Inverness, near the airport, there's a roundabout with the most ridiculous markings I have EVER seen - lanes
crossing over and generally going in random directions.
Everybody else must have been confused, 'cos no-one paid any attention to the markings and generally went their own sensible way. In fact, it
worked better that way...
David
I know it well!
We shall be making our way back up there on Tuesday.........for a few weeks! 
Must have another 'go' at that particular one!
ATB Fozzie
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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ravingfool
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 12:07 PM |
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obviously in a situation like this the markings are insufficient and you have to rely on your common sense and careful driving, but I'd say if
anyone has any right of way it would be lane 2 of the dual carriageway. All extra lanes begin to the right of the 1st or 2nd or 3rd lanes, be it on a
motorway, or coming to a dual carriageway, or coming to a roundabout.
You would assume drivers in lane 1 on the dual carriageway to continue into lane 1 on the roundabout approach, drivers in lane 2 on the dual
carriageway to continue into lane 2 on the roundabout approach, and any drivers wanting the right turn to approach in lane two of the dual carriageway
and indicate right into lane 3 on the roundabout approach.
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Agriv8
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 12:08 PM |
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Yup similar in bradford ( botom of Wakefield rd for locals )_ .
The 3 lane roundabout that you cant get 3 cars on ( 3 lanes strait on from town )
suddenly on the exit its down to 2 and then to 3 again.
PS its dificult with cars add a wagon and things get really intresting.
Best soloution battered landrover and nobody messes with you !!!
Regards
Agriv8
[Edited on 3/8/07 by Agriv8]
[Edited on 3/8/07 by Agriv8]
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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craig1410
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 12:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
obviously in a situation like this the markings are insufficient and you have to rely on your common sense and careful driving, but I'd say if
anyone has any right of way it would be lane 2 of the dual carriageway. All extra lanes begin to the right of the 1st or 2nd or 3rd lanes, be it on a
motorway, or coming to a dual carriageway, or coming to a roundabout.
You would assume drivers in lane 1 on the dual carriageway to continue into lane 1 on the roundabout approach, drivers in lane 2 on the dual
carriageway to continue into lane 2 on the roundabout approach, and any drivers wanting the right turn to approach in lane two of the dual carriageway
and indicate right into lane 3 on the roundabout approach.
The reason I (respectfully) disagree with this conclusion is because the three lane approach to the roundabout leads in to the three lane roundabout
itself and both lanes 1 and 2 are allowed to take second exit. The second exit is geometrically to the left so you would expect to approach (on the
dual carriageway) in the left lane to my mind. Looking at it another way - there are 4 routes out of the roundabout and the guy who nearly hit me was
actually taking 2nd exit like me but he was approaching in the right hand lane!
Also, the extra lane was mainly created by expanding to the left. It would make things much clearer though if they improved the lane markings. I might
complain about it and then at least I can sue for compensation if someone does crash into me as a result of poorly designed markings.
Cheers,
Craig.
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BenB
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 12:24 PM |
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That's a crazy way to split two lanes into three!! what numpties!!
Still, in London we've got Swiss Cottage Roundabout. Now that's fun!!! It's just a case of floor it and hope for the best.....
At one point theres a section of road about 100M long. There's a slip road from the left, one from the right and one in the middle. At the exit
its the same.
And all have green lights at the same time with no give way signs or demarcation lines... You get cars wanting to go left slip to right slip, some
going the opposite way, some wanting to straight on.... Its crazy!!
I love it 
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Hellfire
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 12:33 PM |
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I would respectfully suggest that neither of you had a right of way. You both changed lanes without due consideration for other road users and
you've already stated that neither of you were indicating. If you had performed the manouvre correctly and were clearly in the middle lane when
he collided with you (and you have witnesses to prove this ), then IMO you may have a case, otherwise I would apportion blame 50/50
Phil
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ravingfool
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 12:38 PM |
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sure, obviously I haven't seen the roundabout so my opinion is just a generalised idea from my experience, and unfortunately with the road
markings unclear these things are open to dispute and different interpretations. You probably are best getting onto the council to have the situation
made clearer with the markings.
you say the 1st and 2nd lanes allow you to exit at the 2nd of 5 exits? and that geographically the 2nd is to the left? Is the second exit the main
exit on the far side of the roundabout though and more a defacto "straight on" possibly the road that would have been straight on before
the roundabout?
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craig1410
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 12:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
I would respectfully suggest that neither of you had a right of way. You both changed lanes without due consideration for other road users and
you've already stated that neither of you were indicating. If you had performed the manouvre correctly and were clearly in the middle lane when
he collided with you (and you have witnesses to prove this ), then IMO you may have a case, otherwise I would apportion blame 50/50
Phil
Hi Phil,
Yeah, if I thought it was clear cut I wouldn't have asked the question. From observation, however, almost everyone driving on this bit of road
seems to agree with my point of view and uses lanes 1 and 2 as an extension of lane 1 from the dual carriageway. The flow of the road supports this
approach. I just wondered if the road traffic act has any guidance on the matter.
To put it in perspective, I've been driving this route every day for 6 years (last 2 of which were after the modification) and this is the first
near-miss.
There's a police station about 100 yards away from the roundabout so I might pop in and ask for their opinion.
Cheers,
Craig.
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craig1410
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 12:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
sure, obviously I haven't seen the roundabout so my opinion is just a generalised idea from my experience, and unfortunately with the road
markings unclear these things are open to dispute and different interpretations. You probably are best getting onto the council to have the situation
made clearer with the markings.
you say the 1st and 2nd lanes allow you to exit at the 2nd of 5 exits? and that geographically the 2nd is to the left? Is the second exit the main
exit on the far side of the roundabout though and more a defacto "straight on" possibly the road that would have been straight on before
the roundabout?
I've provided a link to the google map page in an earlier posting. A picture paints a thousand words and all that...
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ravingfool
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 12:53 PM |
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I guess you've just gotta do what everyone else in front of you is doing and hope the people behind and alongside you get with the program! then
put your foot down and try and get some clear air between you and everything falling off your arse and enjoy the thrill of not knowing if you'll
get round alive!
It seems like designing a roundabout must be hard work, cos it's rare to find a large one that feels perfectly natural. If that was your only
near miss in two years of using the roundabout in it's new form then maybe it's not too bad as people must be dealing with it. Could
always be worth a letter to the council though if its concerning you.
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JoelP
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 01:19 PM |
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link
mint, it worked.
So there you have a 3 lane entry into a 2 lane roundabout. Whoever designed that should get battered senseless, then left lying on the white line on
the roundabout.
Regarding craigs problem, id say neither automatically have right of way. Who dares wins
[Edited on 3/8/07 by JoelP]
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Duncan_P
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| posted on 3/8/07 at 01:29 PM |
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Fairly recently some of the roundabouts near me have been changed to a similar layout. They have been marked up in the way 'smart51'
mentions below. Although they did take a long time to do the markings. The changes to these roundabouts are actually an improvement, and have
lessened the ques.
Having said the above.....the next roundabout (about 1 mile further on) has 5 exits and 3 lanes (on the main road). To be confusing this one has a
different layout and is
Left Lane - 1st/2nd exit
Middle Lane - 2nd/3rd exit
Outside Lane - 3rd/4th/5th
This one is a nighmare and no-one knows what to do even though its been like this for years (and seem to have an inability to read the signage) so you
take your life in your hands with that one......my normal plan of attack is pull out before the other 2 cars and then watch out for Numpty's
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
The usual rule for a 3 line island is that the left hand lane must turn off at the next junction. The middle lane then moves to the left and must
turn off at the second exit. Traffic in the right hand lane can then move to the middle ready for the 3rd exit or stay right for later exits. Where
an exit has 2 lanes, you can turn left from the middle lane on the island onto the right hand lane of the exit.
Most people are to stupid / careless / arrogant to follow the rules. I saw a near miss where someone in the left hand lane of an island wanted to
turn right at the same time as a parrallel car in the 3rd lane wanted to go left. Neither car was indicating and they only just avoided a
collision.
As for pulling from a 2 lane road onto a 3 lane island, I'd presume an equal right for the middle lane. Left hand lane traffic should
reasonably expect to be able to go straight on at any junction unless the lane is marked turning left only.
[Edited on 3/8/07 by Duncan_P]
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