Aico
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| posted on 15/9/07 at 03:11 PM |
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CEC vs Tuned Elise
Still thinking about both of these. Anyway how do both compare looking at driving feel and speed, cornering and braking.
Let's say a Seven with a Crossflow 130hp and a tuned S1 Elise with 175hp.
How do they compare on the road, but also on the track? Can you still have fun with the Elise or will it feel slow? I have an E30 with a E36 328i
engine (220hp) and on the road it feels fast, but on the track acceleration feels slow. I do have a superlong diffgear (3.07). It felt a bit faster
with the original one (3.64).
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StevieB
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| posted on 15/9/07 at 03:36 PM |
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I've owned an Elise and can safely say it'd probably be more fun.
The handling is way ahead of locosts and is perfectly balanced - it always seems to have just a bit more grip than you're asking (up to a point,
at which time it'll throw into a spin without warning!).
If you;re talking about a Caterham, it'd probably be faorly matched in terms of performance, maybe a little faster, but should probably still
out handle it on the track.
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Aico
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| posted on 15/9/07 at 04:11 PM |
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Let's say a Westfield Crossflow. Prices seem good on these.
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StevieB
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| posted on 15/9/07 at 04:37 PM |
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Then the Elise would still wipe the floor with it on a track and probably on the road too - right up until the engine melts!
One of the better Elise tunings packages I've seen is a conversion to a Honda Type engine and gearbox. Gives 220 reliable BHP and is probably
the engine that should have been there in the first place.
Costs £10k for the conversion, but it's worth it!
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indykid
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| posted on 15/9/07 at 05:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
I've owned an Elise and can safely say it'd probably be more fun.
The handling is way ahead of locosts and is perfectly balanced - it always seems to have just a bit more grip than you're asking (up to a point,
at which time it'll throw into a spin without warning!).
If you;re talking about a Caterham, it'd probably be faorly matched in terms of performance, maybe a little faster, but should probably still
out handle it on the track.
it's not what i saw or experienced at a recent elvington trackday. admittedly i'm comparing a BEC to an elise, but pat's locost was
far quicker not only up the straights but really caught up in the complex.
without driving both, i'd say you'll never know. stevieB definitely seems to be stuck on the elise.
from what i saw at elvington though, a 5grand BEC locost trounces them, plus the live axle gives a really progressive edge to 'the
limit'
tom
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StevieB
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| posted on 15/9/07 at 06:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by indykid
quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
I've owned an Elise and can safely say it'd probably be more fun.
The handling is way ahead of locosts and is perfectly balanced - it always seems to have just a bit more grip than you're asking (up to a point,
at which time it'll throw into a spin without warning!).
If you;re talking about a Caterham, it'd probably be faorly matched in terms of performance, maybe a little faster, but should probably still
out handle it on the track.
it's not what i saw or experienced at a recent elvington trackday. admittedly i'm comparing a BEC to an elise, but pat's locost was
far quicker not only up the straights but really caught up in the complex.
without driving both, i'd say you'll never know. stevieB definitely seems to be stuck on the elise.
from what i saw at elvington though, a 5grand BEC locost trounces them, plus the live axle gives a really progressive edge to 'the
limit'
tom
I'd agree, but you're comparing a BEC to what was probably standard Elise. A 1.3 Crossflow Westy v 175bhp tuned Elise would be a
diffferent story.
The Elise is heavier, but there's just no substitute for the R&D that goes into a car like that compared to a kit car, even a Westy.
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nick205
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| posted on 15/9/07 at 07:07 PM |
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IS this a fair cmparison price wise?
What is a tuned 175bhp Elise going to cost you? (in decent condition with history)
What is a 1300 XFlow (even a Westy) going to cost you? (again in decent condition with some history)
£ per £ on road or track I'd side with a BEC Locost/Kitcar for outright performance and handling. Next I'd look for a tuned Zetec
Locost/Kitcar and then at an Elise.
They are also very different ownership propositions. Running costs, insurance, depreciation - I'd imagine they're all going to hit harder
with the Lotus.
Having said all that, if I had the money I'd buy an Elise every time 
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Moorron
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| posted on 15/9/07 at 07:26 PM |
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Ive only been up against one elise (s2??) on a private road up a step incline, my relitivly small powed CBR1000F engined BEC mached it until i
reached my V max. This included him getting a slight head start from me too.
I would love an elise, but only because its more user friendly as a daily drive and would get used more. But i think the thrill of being pretty much
outside the car that you have in a 7 makes it worth while having it even if it only gets used on sunny days.
If i answered your original post in a few words it would be. elise is fastest.
Sorry about my spelling, im an engineer and only work in numbers.
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 15/9/07 at 07:42 PM |
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Having owned two Elise previous and been involved with them for the 8 years and now 3 years with my kit car I have a fair amount of experience.
To be honest the Elise can be very refined and conidence inspiring. I've taken a while to get anywhere near the sort of speed I was taking
corners in my Elise. They are sensative to geometry and so can be tricky and certainly are harder to catch when the tail starts wagging!
My neighbour had a very well sorted Elise with a 200BHP K series and he dominated the Bristol sprint championship and that was against kit cars and
other marques.
Saying that in my 160BHP Striker I could out pace a typical modifyied Elise but we would both get overtaken by a decent BEC.
Basically very differnet handling characteristics and certainly feel so from the drivers position.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 15/9/07 at 08:07 PM |
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Using the original comparison with a X flow then yep the Elise might be a bit quicker, but "wipe the floor" is rather OTT, there's
no substitute for lightness when it comes to cornering and although the Elise may feel quicker and more coherent in its handling, it probably isnt as
quick in reality.
Ive done a private test day at (the old) Anglesey where timing was allowed and I lapped there at almost exactly the same pace as a track prepped Elise
S1 with a 220bhp Honda conversion and a very capable track driver at the wheel (I won't mention names, but most people would know him in the
trackday scene).
I also went out as a passenger in another track prepped S1 Elise with Nitron suspension etc at a Spa trackday a couple of weeks ago. It was driven by
an amateur racer and I thought it cornered on a par with mine at the very least, but looking at the corner speeds it was actually about 10mph slower
through the faster corners like Eau Rouge and Blanchimont, I think mainly because you feel the roll etc more so your body thinks you're going
more quickly than you are, and an Elise with stock road suspension would be significantly slower.
Mine is a BEC though so lighter than the average Locost certainly, but a heavier car on the same rubber would not be 10mph slower through those
corners.
cheers
Chris
[Edited on 15/9/07 by ChrisGamlin]
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Paul M
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| posted on 15/9/07 at 09:47 PM |
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I own a 175bhp westfield and did a trackday@ Elvington a fortnight ago with a mate in his 145 bhp elise. Comparison in driving them both, Not a lot
between the two cars flat out down the straight, Westfield much quicker through the corners and far,far better on the brakes. elise was a lot of fun
though. managed to pass Exiges, M3's an Evo, Tvr, S2000 etc in it. It did have fairly poor budget tyres on it which I felt restricted it a bit,
this was probably the only thing I would change on his car.
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Jubal
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| posted on 15/9/07 at 10:26 PM |
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From what I have seen recently you need decent power to stay with an Elise on track that's being well driven. My pal has a standard older S2, so
it's running maybe 120hp and over a lap I am faster (I have a 919 blade engine) but not by as much as you'd think. He's slotting a
Honda engine in right now so I won't see him for dust once he has that fettled.
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