smart51
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 09:03 AM |
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BST in the winter
Tim Yeo MP was on the radio this morning in support of his new bill to shift British clocks forwards by an hour all year. This would give British
Summer Time in the winter and BST+1 in the summer. Is it me or do all these calls for changes to our clocks come from a London Centric point of
view?
Here are some sunrise and sunset times (GMT) for the winter and summer solstices. Appologies to people from NI, I couldn’t find times for Belfast.
Canterbury Inverness Penzance
dec 08:00-15:57 09:01-15:29 08:21-16:20
jun 04:37-21:18 04:14-22:23 05:09-21:38
As you can see, there can be over an hour’s difference. Do the people of the south east not realise that sunrise and sunset happen at different times
in different places or do they just not care about anyone else? In the summer, the south east gets sunset earlier than everyone else. The clocks are
shifted forwards in the summer for their benefit. Clearly the north west doesn’t need it but can tolerate it because of their longer summer daylight
hours. In the winter the story is reversed though. Daylight hours are later and shorter in the north west. London may still benefit from later
winter hours but it would mean that dawn wouldn’t happen in some places until after 10:00 am.
The current scheme is a little inconvenient but works for all parts of the country. Why is it that London always wants things all its own way?
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 09:13 AM |
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Your never going to please everyone, the country is too big  . It's very noticeable up here as it can be pitch black outside and on the news
there is a reporter in London doing a live story in the daylight.
Just be glad you only have to deal with one time zone.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 09:20 AM |
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Standard issue politician ar$e I'm afraid. They only ever care about what happens in their area, stuff you lot 'op north, we need more
sunshine down here! Same thing with all the stupid car and road schemes. All designed to work in London and hack off everyone else! I live in the
sticks, I couldn't give a flying fart about the need to harmonise bus routes down Oxford Street, or whatever new and stupid idea some monkey,
sorry politician, has developed during play time this week. 
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Macbeast
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 09:34 AM |
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It would be much simpler if the whole world were on GMT.
People in SE would go to work at 0900 G when the sun rose.
People in Inverness would go to work an hour later at 1000 G when the sun rose.
People in New York would go to work at 1400 G when the sun rose.
etc
Nine o' clock in the morning is only an arbitrary label we choose to use
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bilbo
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 09:40 AM |
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As Mr Wippy say's, you are not going to please everyone.
To be honest, I don't think this is a north-south thing at all, it's a morning-evening thing. Adding an hour to the current time makes the
evenings lighter everywhere, but it also makes the mornings darker everywhere. There are lots of people who have to get up early for work, take the
kids to school etc, etc who would be plunged into darkness by such a move.
We only have so many hours of daylight each day. That's something even the politicians can't change.
Edited to say: I think I've just said I agree with Smart51 . London and the southeast can get away with adding hours because it get's
lighter earlier.
I say leave it the way it is - there are more important things to worry about.
[Edited on 7/3/08 by bilbo]
---------------------------------------
Build Diary: http://bills-locost.blogspot.com/
Web Site: http://locost.atspace.com
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Humbug
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 09:45 AM |
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Slightly O/T, but apart from deciding what "standard" time should be, there are growing arguments that we should go back to having a
single time for the whole year. Apparently the actually changeover causes more disruption, energy loss and accidents than are avoided by the hour
changing.
Other alternatives include (as above) e.g. Scots going to work an hour later on the clock, or having different time zones within the UK.
Re the differences in sunrise/sunset time, maybe "GMT" should be adjusted to be something more like the sun time in the centre of the
country (east-west) rather than the time in the east (London)? We could go to GMT-30 minutes in the winter and GMT+30 minutes in the summer? That
would c0ck up the clock adjustments when we go abroad
As a final thought, part of the problem in the north, especially Scotland, is that the hours of daylight are much reduced in the winter and no amount
of playing with the clocks will change that.
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smart51
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 10:00 AM |
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Shifting the clocks by 30 minutes and leaving them all year round has some merit. GMT is "actual" time in east London. it is a bit too
early in most of the country.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 10:03 AM |
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We could always just go back to local time. Although it would cock the train time tables up rather royally! And confuse no end of people.
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Fozzie
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 10:15 AM |
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As above.......the meridian runs through Greenwich.......that is nowt to do with the government.
I agree with the 'keep it all GMT' school of thought......FWIW........
No one (politician) can change where the cities are in respect of their positions on the 'latitude/ longitude' on the globe.
As it is at the moment, the clocks go back one hour in October, and forward one hour in March, thus in effect bringing us back to GMT for the months
of April to October.
Many other countries of the world do very similar, but call it 'Daylight Saving' which is, IMO, more accurate.
Going back quite a few years, it (BST) was deemed more practical/safer for kids to get to and from school in some sort of daylight. As to whether or
not that is still the case is up for debate.
School used to finish for me at 4pm..whereas I have noticed most seniors school day now ends around 3-3.15pm !
There is also the 'green' argument, that with BST during the winter months, less energy has to be used where the population is more
concentrated.
Just because people live in the south/south east doesn't mean that they are governed solely by Westminster, and bills passed to suit
southerners, that is just where the Houses of Parliament happen to be.
Unfortunately there is so much news time given to the likes of Ken Livingstone it is very easy to confuse local government issues with that of
government issues...
Not everyone who lives in the south/south east works or plays in the City of London 
Oh, btw, Tim Yeo MP, is MP for Suffolk!
Fozzie
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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smart51
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 10:37 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Fozzie
Oh, btw, Tim Yeo MP, is MP for Suffolk!
Fozzie
Suffolk being east of the Greenwich meridian and thus benefiting from CET more.
The other solution is to get South Easterners to get up earlier to enjoy their sunshine when they have it.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 10:48 AM |
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You will be glad to know I have perfect the solution, oh yes
I propose to sacrifice Alaska (since no one really lives there) and use our combined nukes to sort this time issue once and for all. As you can see
from my blueprint all that is required is a gentle nudge and the route cause, that annoying tilt can be fixed.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/photos.php?action=showphoto&photo=winter%20fix.JPG
Vote - Whippy for 'World Leader' - no plan too bold
[Edited on 7/3/08 by Mr Whippy]
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bilbo
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 11:19 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
You will be glad to know I have perfect the solution, oh yes
I propose to sacrifice Alaska (since no one really lives there) and use our combined nukes to sort this time issue once and for all. As you can see
from my blueprint all that is required is a gentle nudge and the route cause, that annoying tilt can be fixed.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/photos.php?action=showphoto&photo=winter%20fix.JPG
Vote - Whippy for 'World Leader' - no plan too bold
[Edited on 7/3/08 by Mr Whippy]
I guess you'll be off to hollow out a volcano now
---------------------------------------
Build Diary: http://bills-locost.blogspot.com/
Web Site: http://locost.atspace.com
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iank
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 11:24 AM |
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Mr Whippy, this list could prove very useful for your schemes.
http://pcy5.backuppage.googlepages.com/overlord1.htm
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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HAL 1
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 11:35 AM |
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All this was tried out in the 60s or 70s, i can't remember which but it didn't work then so i don't know why they think it will
now.
you youngsters on the other thread wont remember that but anyone my age will anyway it's probably to do with global warming, everything else is.
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onzarob
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 11:58 AM |
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I wish it would stay the same all year, the clocks will go forward on Sunday, but I won't be able to adjust the kids waking up time/going to bed
time causes mayhem and moaning
[Edited on 7-3-2008 by onzarob]
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Fozzie
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 02:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by onzarob
... the clocks will go forward on Sunday.....
[Edited on 7-3-2008 by onzarob]
Errr not this Sunday.........
2am 30th March to be precise.........
or...... for most of us.....before ya go to bed on the Saturday (29th)..... 
Fozzie
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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RazMan
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 03:13 PM |
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Oooh I'm on a 12 hour night shift that night!!
Hmm I wonder if I'll get docked an hour's pay for the 'missing' hour - quite possibly knowing the skinflints that I work for
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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onzarob
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 04:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Fozzie
quote:
Originally posted by onzarob
... the clocks will go forward on Sunday.....
[Edited on 7-3-2008 by onzarob]
Errr not this Sunday.........
2am 30th March to be precise.........
or...... for most of us.....before ya go to bed on the Saturday (29th).....
Fozzie
See can't even get the right week I need more sleep
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JoelP
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| posted on 7/3/08 at 07:23 PM |
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the problem stems from the fact that as the days shorten its coming equally from both ends. Ideally the sun would rise at 0730 every morning, but it
varies by about 3 hours. So in winter when a days light barely covers the working day, things get tight!
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