blakep82
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 12:21 PM |
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biofuel mixed in petrol
don't know if this has been covered on here yet,
apparently according to the TV (bbc news) from today, 2.5% of petrol we buy is biofuel.
does this have any adverse effects on the engine? poor performance, faster wear etc?
i seem to remember a car on top gear and jeremy clarkson saying it was something like 800bhp, but on biofuel you can get 1000bhp or something.
is there a benefit (except the usual envionmental stuff)?
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 12:26 PM |
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I was under the impression that bio fuel was diesel?
I've heard that alcohol is sometimes blended in with petrol but don't know the details. Has Clarkson worked out where the cars engine is
yet?
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Humbug
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 12:29 PM |
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My understanding was that 2.5% of the total sold should be biofuel, not that every pump should dispense a 2.5% blend
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britishtrident
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 12:35 PM |
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Ethanol added to petrol, some advantages some disadvantages.
It won't normally give any more power.
Not a new idea way back in the late 1930s 100 Octane Cleveland Discol the Alcohol Fuel was sold. Discol contaned about 2.5% to 5% Ethanol eventually
disapeared around 1972 when Esso pulled the plug on it although it had probably had no alcohol in it and was just rebranded "Esso
Extra"from the mid 1960s when Esso took over.
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smart51
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 12:42 PM |
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quote:
All petrol and diesel which is sold at UK pumps now has to include at least 2.5% biofuels
Link to BBC story
The fuel still has to meet the British Standard for unleadded petrol. It still has to be 95 RON or higher. Petrol is blended anyway, my guess is
that they'll blend it to take account of the bio-ethanol content so that it will stay much the same as it ever was. 2.5% isn't much so it
won't have much effect. I believe that Brazil's cars run on E85 without too many problems.
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 12:47 PM |
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However there is no true environmental benefit - in fact quite the opposite is argued by some because of deforestation and mono culture crops damaging
the environment.....
It's got more to do with dwindling oil reserves....
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 12:52 PM |
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The way i understood it is that you cant run a standard car on much more than 15% biofuel. Thats why ford and volvo produced cars that ran on
85%biofuel in the hope that is the way we are going
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 12:54 PM |
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...oh and britishtrident, you may want to make your avatar a bit smaller 
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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carlknight1982
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 12:58 PM |
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i work for a large generator company and we have some genset (using 12 and 14 litre engines) that are running on B100 bio fuel 100% bio fuel no diesel
at all, its crap true there is no loss of power but the injector nozzles get deposits on them then over time (3-4 months of constant use) the
injectors can no longer atomise the fuel and it drips into the cylinders down the bores past the rings and into the sump where it reacts with the
engine oil and turns to Tar, destroying the big ends and rendering the engine basically siezed and useless, be very very wary of Bio fuels.
Ive spent 6 months looking for ways to stop this and so far nothing new.
[Edited on 15/4/08 by carlknight1982]
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MikeR
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 01:05 PM |
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Isn't this just a case of the diesel biofuel stripping the tar deposits from the derv oil tanks (hence why you should change the oil filter a
couple of times when you change over on a car).
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carlknight1982
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 01:12 PM |
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not in this case, the genset run on external tanks that have never had Diesel in them, i even changed all the fuel lines on 2 machines prior to the
bio fuel usage as to eliminate the tar problem
once of the machines was brand new, it now sits in my work bay waiting for the crank to come back from being reground.
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smart51
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 01:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveFJ
However there is no true environmental benefit - in fact quite the opposite is argued by some because of deforestation and mono culture crops damaging
the environment.....
It's got more to do with dwindling oil reserves....
Not so. Or at least, not so simple.
It takes energy to turn plants into petrol, but then it takes energy to turn geology into petrol too. IF it takes more to make biopetrol then SOME of
the benefit will be lost.
If you deforrest the amazon to make way for biofuel crops then you may do more harm than good. If you replant third world food fields to grow biofuel
crops then you'll do more harm than good.
If you replant subsidised unused european fields to grow biofuel then you'll be doing a lot of good. You might even reduce the dependance of
farmers on subsidies. Where you source your biofuel crops is a matter of capitalism vs ethics. Do you pay a bit more to avoid starving millions of
people?
To say that bio fuels ARE worse than mineral fuels for the quoted reasons is a bit, well, ignorant.
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procomp
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 02:31 PM |
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Hi the way it was told to me by a BIO fule expert. Was that the total turn over of fuel by the fuel companies had to be 2.5% this year And then 5%
next year and 7.5% the following year and so on. I think the news have it a bit out of context. They are not putting 2.5% in with the standard fuel we
use. But BIO fuel at 85/15 % mix will be on offer. Ie as Morrison's and TESCO already have done.
Also just as a bit of info I will be racing the first BIO fueled race car to run in a championship in the UK At cadwell in 4 weeks time in the locost
championship.
There will be eventually two cars with the other one being done by coventry university. I know that Aston martin and some others have raced using it
but where not under regulations Ie given dispensation to run. What we are running is a fuel that has been homologated by the MSA. And supplied by
TESCO.
Just hope i get club card point for using it.
Cheers Matt
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paulf
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 02:36 PM |
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I remember somthing a long time back about fuel containg a percentage of bio fuel paid a reduced tax rate.It was one of those budget announcements
that never seemed to happen, maybe they will cut the price now to go with the 2.5 % bio fuel.Of course it may be that fuel consumption will increase
as ethanol requires a richer mixture so the cars engine management will richen it up and we end up paying more stealth fuel tax yet again.
Paul
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wilkingj
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 03:01 PM |
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The Solution to ALL of these issues, is Simple.
CULL Half the worlds population.
There are just TOO Many People.
Namely there is a Plague of People upon the land.
I don't mean there are too many of X or Y culture / country. I mean just too many people FULL STOP.
In the last 50 years its gone from 4Bn to 6Bn people. Its a growing problem.
EDIT:
PS... Dont confuse Bio Diesel with Bio Petrol, as they are different fuels.
[Edited on 15/4/2008 by wilkingj]
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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blakep82
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 03:05 PM |
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so my local tesco should have biofuels on the pumps now? might give it a shot then if i'm not going to end up with a broken engine...
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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procomp
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 03:09 PM |
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Hi not sure as to how many sites will have BIO fuel E85. Maybe a bit like Morrisons who have only 8 sites selling it in the UK.
Cheers Matt
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blakep82
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 04:10 PM |
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neither morrisons or tesco have it in greenock. wonder if it'll be any cheaper (doubt it )
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 04:11 PM |
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There was a guy in the jag club that tried the 99 octane tesco fuel which i understand is high in biofuel and he had some pretty bad engine problems.
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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paulf
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 05:14 PM |
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Morrisons sell E85 near me but it is nearly the same price and does something like 25% less mileage, it can also only be used in cars set up for it or
in flex fuel cars that have a special sensor that adjusts the Lambda value to compensate for the different fuel.
Paul
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
neither morrisons or tesco have it in greenock. wonder if it'll be any cheaper (doubt it )
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DorsetStrider
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 06:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj
The Solution to ALL of these issues, is Simple.
CULL Half the worlds population.
There are just TOO Many People.
Namely there is a Plague of People upon the land.
I don't mean there are too many of X or Y culture / country. I mean just too many people FULL STOP.
In the last 50 years its gone from 4Bn to 6Bn people. Its a growing problem.
EDIT:
PS... Dont confuse Bio Diesel with Bio Petrol, as they are different fuels.
[Edited on 15/4/2008 by wilkingj]
Is there a way of turning people into fuel?
Can I nominate graham norton for the first set of culls?
Who the f**K tightened this up!
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carpmart
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| posted on 15/4/08 at 08:32 PM |
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I seem to recall that there was a Walkers Workshop piece in PPC mag a few issues back and the Walker had a bio fuel car on his rollers and mapped it
very satisfactorily.
Again, from memory, are the characteristics of bio fuel and particularly high octane rating? If yes, they would work well with high compression
engines or forced induction!
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack 
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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