eznfrank
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| posted on 29/8/08 at 11:32 PM |
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4 words I didn't want to hear tonight - Alfa Romeo Timing Belt - Help required!!!
OK, I'll start off with a simple BOLLO*KS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The missus was on her way home tonight in the 147 (2.0 TS) and called me to say that it had just died and that an engine warning light had come on
just seconds before. The Greenflag guy reckons it is the timing belt but he got there before me so I aint had a chance to check yet.
A couple of things bumbling around in my brain at the mo (aside from the £1k it'll probably end up costing.....)
1. I bought the car 2nd hand less than 6 months ago, would it be covered under sale of goods??
2. I thought the interval was 48k for a visual check and 72k for a change (as per my old 145 with the same block?), although a quick squizz round the
net suggests it might be 36K. The car has just done 44K. Would this have an impact on 1 above as the garage supposedly did a 120 point check and
should have covered this?? They sold me the car with 37K on it.
3. As it happens I actually still have my old Alfa 145 which has a fairly low mileage, anyone happen to know if it's the same block (they look
the same and I'm pretty sure they are)??
[Edited on 30/8/08 by eznfrank]
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jamesbond007ltk
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| posted on 29/8/08 at 11:42 PM |
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I think they are the same block.
However, the timing chain interval on 145/146's changed from ~70k when they first came out, down to ~50k and eventually around 36k towards the
later models.
One of those stories of a changing service book depending on the year of manufacture I am afraid.
However, saying that I had heard the 147s did not fall foul to the same problems, despitre being similar engines.
Rich
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eznfrank
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| posted on 29/8/08 at 11:50 PM |
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My book for the 147 is in the car but on the net looks like it is 36. Mine is on 44 .
Fortunately I have a few quid squared away but didn't really want to use it for crap like this.
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johnston
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| posted on 30/8/08 at 06:43 AM |
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I wouldn't jump to any conclusions till you gift a chance to look it over. Never know you might be lucky.
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eznfrank
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| posted on 30/8/08 at 06:51 AM |
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Yeah I'm crossing my fingers but being an Alfa I aint optimistic.
The timing of the whole thing couldn't be worse though, I'm away with work all next week so SWMBO is gonna have to do without the car for
a week and then I'm back for a week and had a week planned on the Indy before I go to France for a week. doh!!
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zilspeed
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| posted on 30/8/08 at 07:53 AM |
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The original 72k belt interval was intended to take the cost of a belt change out of the equation for new leased company cars which typically run for
3 years and 60-70k miles.
They got caught out though...
That's why the figutes are now much more realsitic.
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ReMan
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| posted on 30/8/08 at 08:05 AM |
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Recalls
September 2002: TSB issued to change timing belts and tensioners at 36,000 miles rather than 72,000 miles. 1-10-2003: Possible fire risk during warm
up phase on just 6 cars ZFA937---3084119 to 3171718 and 5041468 to 5097241.
07/12/2007 R/2007/174 ALFA ROMEO 147, GT, 159, Brera and Spider brakes may fail.
Rust is the least of the problems these days!!
Seriously, Did you get a service history with it?, If so in light of the above, it may be that it should have been done. So you may have a bit of
sympathy from ALfa if it was or even if it was'nt.....
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ashg
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| posted on 30/8/08 at 09:29 AM |
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it will be cheeper to fit a new engine if you have it done in a garage. from memory i think the inlet valves around £16 each
[Edited on 30/8/08 by ashg]
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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eznfrank
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| posted on 30/8/08 at 09:56 AM |
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i've found an alfa dealer that can do them for £6 each. Not sure how much damage yet, or what other bits i'll need?
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martyn_16v
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| posted on 30/8/08 at 10:48 AM |
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'internet wisdom' says that once you get it built up the big ends will go in no time at all. I'm not quite sure if I follow the
logic behind that, but I do know first hand that the big ends in these engines are made of chocolate 
While you've got the head and belt off you'd be best changing the variator, and obviously the tensioners etc. You need the cam locking
blocks to set the cam timing properly when you re-assemble, they can be had on eBay (pretty expensive but you can sell them on after).
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 30/8/08 at 02:38 PM |
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Probably me missing something, but how did the engine warning light know the cambelt was just about to break?
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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cloudy
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| posted on 30/8/08 at 02:56 PM |
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It's possible the belt stretched just before it broke, throwing the timing out...
James
www.warnercars.com
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froggy
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| posted on 30/8/08 at 03:19 PM |
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i can lend you the timing blocks if you need them
[IMG]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/froggy_0[IMG]
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eznfrank
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| posted on 30/8/08 at 03:59 PM |
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thanks for the offer mate, very much appreciated. I'll drop you a line once i know what the damage is and i know what i'm doing. With it.
Thanks again
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Marcus
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| posted on 30/8/08 at 08:36 PM |
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The big ends can go a few thousand miles after a cambelt breakage due to the force that the pistons hit the valves! I've just done a cambelt and
variator change on my 2.0TS 156. It's a simple enough job, takes about 3 hours all in, but you do need the right tools!
Marcus
Because kits are for girls!!
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eznfrank
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| posted on 30/8/08 at 08:54 PM |
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any idea what tools i'm likely to need other than standard kit? Cam locks and tensioner, what else??
If the big end aint likely going to last long would i be best just chucking the whole spare block in rather than just the head?
[Edited on 30/8/08 by eznfrank]
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martyn_16v
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| posted on 31/8/08 at 09:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Marcus
The big ends can go a few thousand miles after a cambelt breakage due to the force that the pistons hit the valves!
If that were the case I'd expect bent valves. That's why I said I didn't follow the logic...
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Marcus
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| posted on 1/9/08 at 12:06 PM |
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I think the head needs to come off first to check for damage, sometimes the valves are obviously bent, sometimes not, so a pressure test would be
recommended anyway. It's all too easy to fit all the new gear only to have it run on 3 cylinders (or less) and have to take it apart again!
As far as tools go, cam locks and tensioning tools are a must. Don't forget to loosen BOTH cam pulleys to tension the belts otherwise the timing
may be a tooth out. The exhaust pulley is held on with 1 really tight bolt so you could do with a tool to lock the pulley (a screwdriver wedged in the
teeth probably won't cut it here!) In addition, some cam locking tools are too tall to be used with the existing cap bolts, so either get some
longer M7 bolts or mill about 10mm off the top of the locking tool where the bolt seats.
Don't forget to try the cam locks on again when all is tensioned and tightened, it's all too easy to iss this and be a tooth or so out
when you try to run the engine.
If you haven't had a new variator, get one. They're not too expensive (60 - 90 quid). A failure won't kill the engine, but will
severely impair performance (and rattle like a good 'un).
It can be an expensive learning curve if you're not careful.
BTW it's worth changing the balance belt and tensioner too, mine had teeth missing! If this breaks, it may take your new cambelt with it and a
few more valves!!
Don't be put off by the negatives, if you're logical and methodical, it's not too bad. Knowing what I know now, I'd always do
this myself rather than let a non specialist garage near it!!
Good luck...
Marcus
Because kits are for girls!!
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