http://www.h20fuel.co.uk/
What do you guys think of this?
www. fuel your car on snake oil.con
Without looking.. Believe it not....
Snake oil
"... we simply split the Hydrogen from the water and use it as fuel to run your vehicle on ..."
Didn't realise it was THAT easy to split Hydrogen from Water
If it's that simple and I was that smart, sod converting cars, I'd have sold the technology that makes it so simple and made Wonga angels in
the billions upon billions I'd have made... But maybe I'm motivated a little differently...
"Fuel your Car on Water" - Believe it or not
quote:
Originally posted by onenastyviper
http://www.h20fuel.co.uk/
What do you guys think of this?
quote:
we simply split the Hydrogen from the water
FOR THOSE INTERNET SITES CLAIMING THAT HYDROGEN CANNOT BE USED IN VEHICLES, WE FORMALLY ISSUE A CHALLENGE. MEET WITH US, LOOK AT OUR SYSTEM, SEE IT
FITTED TO A VEHICLE AND SEE THE ELECTRONIC HYDROCARBON READ OUTS. THEN WHEN PROVEN WRONG WE EXPECT YOU TO DISCONTINUE WITH NEGATIVE PUBLICITY. WE DO
NOT HOWEVER EXPECT YOU TO STOP NAMING AND SHAMIMG THE COMPANIES THAT ARE FRAUDULENT AND THAT GIVE REPUTABLE COMPANIES AS OURSELVES BAD NAMES.
Anyone fancy a day trip?
Well thats good then - it will make running my V8 a bit cheaper. I might get fed up with walking to and from the kitchen with a jug of water to fill
the car up however.
[Edited on 11/7/11 by Irony]
"Didn't realise it was THAT easy to split Hydrogen from Water "
Making Hydrogen IS easy, and can be made by putting a + and - charge in to a sealed container of water
Hydrogen will rise to the top
its very very easy, and i have done it several times, but it is dangerous (very explosive)
wether you can run a car on it, i doubt, but i would certainly put money on being able to do so in the future
steve
You might think if this was a true 'wonder' product they might be able to get enough investment to manufacture a better website. Even the
email is a free one
h20fuel@live.co.uk
We should all invest and become billionaires.
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
"Didn't realise it was THAT easy to split Hydrogen from Water "
Making Hydrogen IS easy, and can be made by putting a + and - charge in to a sealed container of water
Hydrogen will rise to the top
its very very easy, and i have done it several times, but it is dangerous (very explosive)
wether you can run a car on it, i doubt, but i would certainly put money on being able to do so in the future
steve
This sounds good - could make filling up interesting!
quote:
Hydrogen can also be made from urine. Using urine, hydrogen production is 332% more energy efficient than using water.[12][13] The research was conducted by Geraldine Botte from the Ohio University. Recently, Dr. Shanwen Tao of the Heriot-Watt University has invented a Carbamide Power System Fuel Cell that can immediately convert urine into electricity.[14]
there's so many now of these garbage sites and products on the web that just pray on people ignorance
this site is one of the best known
just look at the price of that jam jar! linky
[Edited on 11/7/11 by Mr Whippy]
quote:
Originally posted by Snake Oil Peddlers
FOR THOSE INTERNET SITES CLAIMING THAT HYDROGEN CANNOT BE USED IN VEHICLES, WE FORMALLY ISSUE A CHALLENGE. MEET WITH US, LOOK AT OUR SYSTEM, SEE IT FITTED TO A VEHICLE AND SEE THE ELECTRONIC HYDROCARBON READ OUTS. THEN WHEN PROVEN WRONG WE EXPECT YOU TO DISCONTINUE WITH NEGATIVE PUBLICITY. WE DO NOT HOWEVER EXPECT YOU TO STOP NAMING AND SHAMIMG THE COMPANIES THAT ARE FRAUDULENT AND THAT GIVE REPUTABLE COMPANIES AS OURSELVES BAD NAMES.
quote:
Originally posted by Snake Oil Peddlers
There is also another reason why this gas works so well in an internal combustion engine. The Hydrogen, being the smallest particle in nature, hits a droplet of fuel, cuts it into smaller droplets and attaches themselves to the smaller droplets. Now the finer, hydrogen-enhanced fuel mist is capable of burning more thoroughly.
I seem to remember a few years ago someone who was an 'expert' in this field was killed in a car accident. Loads of rumours that he had
perfected the technique and was bumped off by the oil industry. This just added to the rumours it was possible.
Can you run your car on water? No. Can you run a car of some sort on Hydrogen ? Yes.
If we use clean energy (or even nuclear) to produce the hydrogen then we could almost switch over from petrol to hydrogen fuel cells. We could convert
90% of cars on the road. Polution would be almost zero.
As for is it safe? I think it was James May in one of his recent programs that said 'Imagine if you tried to convince someone to move round in a
small steel box that you pour a highly flammable liquid into it and then ignite the liquid and that you can get this liquid in all towns and you can
just pour it in yourself. Sounds crazy, yet this is what we do with our current cars. So why not Hydrogen?
probably the best safety aspect of hydrogen is any gas leak immediately rises high into the air, I do have concerns of some of the pressures they are using on the tanks, 10,000psi is always going to go with a hell of a bang, hydrogen or not...
This kind of idea has been kicking around for years but nothing convincing has ever been developed, although a friend of mine has applied a bit of
lateral thinking to his project. He has devised a system for big trucks where even a small percentage saved on fuel is still very significant in terms
of hard cash.
To over simplify, his system only generates gas during braking - the extra load on the alternator improves the engine braking so acts like a hybrid
car. The gas is stored in a pressurised tank and is only used under heavy acceleration. The whole setup is quite sophisticated and involves a second
alternator, engine management system and a whole load of plumbing! He says that his test truck went from 8mpg to 9mpg 
^ isn't that what that ad-blu (?) stuff does for trucks?
if not then what does it do?
I love things like this - pseudoscience, don't leave home without it.
Anyway, if you split pure water, you get hydrogen and oxygen gas roughly in the ratio of 2-1 (I think).
What I don't understand is that if you inject a hydrogen-oxygen charge into the cylinder, what happens to the existing mixture of petrol/diesel
and air?
Does it simply make it burn better?
Is it nothing more than substitutional (x Joules from petrol & air replaced with y Joules of Hydrogen and Air/oxygen)?
Any physicists out there availble for comment?
quote:
Originally posted by RazMan
This kind of idea has been kicking around for years but nothing convincing has ever been developed, although a friend of mine has applied a bit of lateral thinking to his project. He has devised a system for big trucks where even a small percentage saved on fuel is still very significant in terms of hard cash.
To over simplify, his system only generates gas during braking - the extra load on the alternator improves the engine braking so acts like a hybrid car. The gas is stored in a pressurised tank and is only used under heavy acceleration. The whole setup is quite sophisticated and involves a second alternator, engine management system and a whole load of plumbing! He says that his test truck went from 8mpg to 9mpg
Re-reading some of that first website thats posted up, I'm now not sure what this company is even offering.
If they took your car, removed the petrol tank, fitted a water tank, fitted all the aparatus to create and store hydrogen and then run the car off
hydrogen then I can see it working. Thats all possible. Expensive, not very efficient, but possible.
But they seem to just be injecting water into an IC engine. And then saying the reduced readings on the lambda sensor prove its working.
And yes you can inject water into an IC engine. Infact it can help reduce charge temp, and ups compression. But they seem to be selling this as
'running on water', when what you are really doing is 'running on petrol with a very small amount of water too' and then waffling
on about science that is not relevant.
Some people.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
that's fine though spinning up a flywheel to store braking energy is just as good and tried before. Only prob is it's no use to trucks that are doing long haulage as they hardly have to brake, you can get far better savings just streamlining them properly
There is some truth in it as far as I can work out in that hydrogen can be used as a fuel in an IC engine, the same as any other flammable gas (or
atomised liquid for that matter) can.
The issue is that getting the hydrogen from water takes the same amount of energy as you release by burning it, so the net effect to you as an
individual is that you'll be running your car on electricity. It's just a way of storing that electricity and taking it with you, much like
a big battery.
Now, if you had a free an unlimited source of electricity, for example your own hydro plant or something like that, then you might be on to something
but most people don't have such luxuries so you're stuck making it from electricity you buy off the national grid.
Now, what does seem to be true is that electricity is about half the price of petrol in terms of energy released per £ spent, so if all other parts of
the equation are equal you could in theory run your car half price. However, it's unlikely that this would be the case in the real world,
especially once you've taken into account the cost of storing the hydrogen, transferring to the car, etc. That's before the various
inefficiencies in the system come in which I wouldn't even know where to start counting. For example, is an IC engine more or less efficient
when running on hydrogen compared to petrol? How much energy is lost to heat during the electrolsys of the water? (...and I'm sure there are
hundreds of others)
The other issue is the explosive nature of hydrogen/oxygen mix. When it's produced from water the exact quantities of each gas are produced to
make a highly explosive mixture. The trick to making the hydrogen "safe" is to remove the oxygen from the mix and just add air during the
combustion process, but that's very difficult to do, and has been the subject of some very expensive research that's been going on for many
years.
Now that's not to say hydrogen is out of the picture when it comes to fuels, far from it. It's just that we need to find better ways of
producing it - for example biologically - and better ways of using it - hydrogen fuel cells perhaps - before it will be viable.
Cheers, Chris
So it's just one of these stupid elecrolysis kits, only this one has the added bonus of a control for leaning out your engine up to 0% fuel!! I
can just see it now - must save more, must save more, must save more... crap holes in pistons!
What a load of complete bollards. Love the 'testimony' from Mr Osborne...
'from 15mpg to 34mpg on first motorway run, went to london and back at average 70mph costing half the amount i usually put in.'
Ha ha lol - dude your Mondeo will do 34mpg on the motorway at 70 without the crap fitted anyway!
Oooh their forum requires no registration or email addresses - tee hee hee 
On the web site it states that pure Hydrogen is dangerous due to its explosive nature but the mixture with oxygen produced by them is much safer which
is obviously incorrect.They seem to imply that it works best with diesels and so it may be acting in the same way as propane injection which is proven
technology .
Paul
Where the whole thing falls down is that they figure you can produce the hydrogen on the fly, however Honda used to advertise a home filling system with their FCX (yet another viable alternative that they have no intention of cashing in on) that means the hydrogen is produced at home using energy sources like wind and solar. That would work over here because it's gonna be one or the other!
you all make one big mistake in the judgements. Ofcourse taking the h2 from water costs at least the same energy than can be taken from the h2 but you
dont take all the enery from the h2 in the engine.
The gain in fuel efficiency with these systems comes from the fact that the H2 gas acts like a reformer.
With a 1AMP current on 12 Volts, you get enough h2 and o2 mixture to add to the intake to get 25% better fuel efficiency.
The octane is boosted by this also and the fuel is burned much more efficient. Side effect is much cleaner exhaust gasses, another good thing. Also
better performance and cleaner engine inside and less heath.
A lot of systems on the market are bad, especially the wet ones.
I tried a dry cell system with stainless steel 316L and Titanium plates which give much better h2 production with no loss of energy (heat ) in the
water like in the wet systems on links above here. Also no residu like on normal stainless is the case.
Watch to use a good catalyst, KOH (potassium hydroxide )is the best!
With lambda regulated engines you must be aware that they will use even more fuel with the h2 system. Reason is that because of the so clean exhaust
gasses, the ECU will think your mixture is to lean and will add more fuel instead.
Solution is a DEFIE chip to connect to the Lambda / O2 sensor that will change the voltage to adapt to the ECU so the amount of fuel injected will be
correct. This works perfectly. Different types of these chips are available like the VOLO (google and u find)
A constant current to do the electrolyse also gives worse result than pulsation. This proves to give more h2 with even less energy lost. Also the
amount of cells used in the drysell determines the result.
The system isnt dangerous as there is no storage of h2 gasses. The gas produced is used immediatly through the intake. Dont put it directly into the
manifold by the way but in the air intake. Ofcourse the power should be cut as soon as engine stops to prevent gas production at that moment.
In general you can say, the less efficient your engine, the better results with the H2 system.
But half of the ones on the market are cheap and bad, especially what is linked to here above.
My reason to use "HHO " was to pass the emission tests on a carburettor bike engined kitcar. The gasses are very clean now. Co dropped from
1% by to below 0,1%. This alone was worth the investment. Now Im gaining 30ct per liter when I use it on my daily driver as well
I made a small study of a lot of systems over a few weeks time. Reality has stopped me from being sceptic although I was also sceptic choosing the
right system.
[Edited on 11/7/11 by kitcarcollection]
[Edited on 11/7/11 by kitcarcollection]
I find it incredibly difficult to believe that 1amp at 12v produces any significant amount of hydrogen, especially compared to the amount of air and fuel being blown through an engine. Have you actually set it (hydrolysis) up on a table and seen how many bubbles are produced?
No.... Just no.
To elaborate slightly: No.
To put it slightly differently: Nein.
With a French twist: Non.
Look at it this way: if it worked manufacturers would be using the system on their cars and rejoicing at the sudden reduction on R&D spending
they would have to undertake to meet emissions requirements.
So finally... Negative.
That is all
Yeah because car manufacturers give that much of a s**t they're rushing to get those electric vehicles out...
Oh wait a minute, they've been two years away since 1996
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Yeah because car manufacturers give that much of a s**t they're rushing to get those electric vehicles out...
Oh wait a minute, they've been two years away since 1996
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Yeah because car manufacturers give that much of a s**t they're rushing to get those electric vehicles out...
Oh wait a minute, they've been two years away since 1996
its the standard reactions you get from the physicians and disbelievers who all have never heard about improvement of combustion with this additive.
It works folks, believe me, I tested it and not only got my emission way down to 0,1% co without a cat but also improved milage of 20-30%.
Its a simple fact that there is soo much disbelieve and rubbish on the market. Take a dry sell system on stainless 316L or titanium plates on 12AMP ,
lambda extender and youre ready to earn. Around 400dollar buys you all you need.
Ofcourse the authorities will not be happy, all money earned comes from oil..... Look what they did to stan meyer and many others....
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Yeah because car manufacturers give that much of a s**t they're rushing to get those electric vehicles out...
Oh wait a minute, they've been two years away since 1996
Think about it; of course the manufacturers want to produce an economical car, as mpg is a major sellign point. Imagine if you could sell it as 100mpg. It would go like hot cakes! The fact is, whilst there is room to improve the efficiency of an engine, a few bubbles of hydrogen arent going to half fuel usage.
nothing special there, just fuel cell cars. Not even a new idea now. Why arent they available? Well, i suppose its partly that, as you say, there
arent enough stockists of hydrogen (much like lpg round here), and the national grid couldnt cope if we all tried to fill them up at home.
We need cheap clean power supplies first, like lots more nuclear.
IMHO, we're barking up the wrong tree to a certain extent. The fact is, that having everyone driving around in one or two tonnes of metal,
starting and stopping all the time, is simply too uneconomical in the first place. We are approaching a plateau where there isnt much more economy to
realistically get out of modern engines. The solution to me is computer control. All vehicles controlled by a network of computers, vehicles going the
same way would be grouped together and slipstreaming each other, no stopping for lights because they are organised into packets on the approach to a
junction and no one slows down at all. Plus, much higher speed limits. And if you think it would be too dangerous, well, 3000 people die every year on
the roads anyway. Id say put it on rails too but that would probably cost far too much to set up.
quote:
Originally posted by kitcarcollection
Ofcourse the authorities will not be happy, all money earned comes from oil..... Look what they did to stan meyer and many others....
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
nothing special there, just fuel cell cars. Not even a new idea now. Why arent they available? Well, i suppose its partly that, as you say, there arent enough stockists of hydrogen (much like lpg round here), and the national grid couldnt cope if we all tried to fill them up at home.
i feel your pain, ive had £110 in the van in the past.
Since moben went bust ive got a new contract with a local firm, and i leave home 5 mins before i need to arrive now, and ive only done 30 miles all
week Compare that to fits as far as stranraer and kelso