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Potentially first ever kit car... help
Danieljephcott - 14/8/17 at 09:51 PM

Hello all,

New to the site and a complete newbie when it comes to kitcars. So I currently have a mk1 golf gti cabriolet which is a very tidy lovely car. I have done a lot of work to it over the last 6 years but find myself just not using it anymore so I've decided to scratch an itch and get a car which I can use on a track. So I've looked at a clio 182 which are great track cars but I really want something rear wheel drive and I'm just not a fan of an mx5.

While having my car up for sale someone has approached me to do a straight swap for there locust 7. The car looks fantastic and I'm super tempted however I don't know anything about kit cars. Normally I would spend months researching however this opportunity has come round and I feel like I should go for it.

I'm hoping you can help with information about these cars, what to look for and what parts fit if I decide to upgrade or replace parts.

All the information I have is this:


1600 gt crossflow 5 spd box twin 40 webbers new mot minilites nice car built 2007 sva tested. I believe the car is running very well and is a wide body which helps as I'm almost 6ft and...well... fat. It has no roof but this isn't an issue as I have a garage to store it in.

Wha is mot, tax and insurance like?

First question would be about the engine. I'm fairly mechanically minded but have never heard of this engine. What's it from?

Anyway any help, information would be fantastic, here's some pics.















[Edited on 14/8/17 by Danieljephcott]

Paul M - 14/8/17 at 10:22 PM

First question I would ask is what is your Mk1 Golf worth ? -it's an appreciating classic and i would question whether this car is worth much more than £3500 -£4000 - main problem is that it's registered as a a "Locost" so hasnt got big name badge value, plus the crossflow is an early engine, typicall fitted in the Mk1 & Mk 2 rear wheel drive Ford Escort ( models which ceased production around 1980) - it is a great engine though, thousands have been fitted to many cars in all sorts of applications - it's just not a modern, light weight or 16 valve unit.

With a locost build quality is paramount, the design lets the builder source ( or fabricate) as many parts as he wishes - great if he's an aerospace engineer, no so good if he's no mechanical skill, never worked on a car or has a limited budget. Best thing to do is say where you are located and ask someone on here to come and look at it with you.

There are more cars out there than buyers so look at lots - dont be swayed by what may seem like an easy swap deal.

Danieljephcott - 14/8/17 at 11:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul M
First question I would ask is what is your Mk1 Golf worth ? -it's an appreciating classic and i would question whether this car is worth much more than £3500 -£4000 - main problem is that it's registered as a a "Locost" so hasnt got big name badge value, plus the crossflow is an early engine, typicall fitted in the Mk1 & Mk 2 rear wheel drive Ford Escort ( models which ceased production around 1980) - it is a great engine though, thousands have been fitted to many cars in all sorts of applications - it's just not a modern, light weight or 16 valve unit.

With a locost build quality is paramount, the design lets the builder source ( or fabricate) as many parts as he wishes - great if he's an aerospace engineer, no so good if he's no mechanical skill, never worked on a car or has a limited budget. Best thing to do is say where you are located and ask someone on here to come and look at it with you.

There are more cars out there than buyers so look at lots - dont be swayed by what may seem like an easy swap deal.


Great advice thank you. I was kind of hoping the sva would mean it's been built well. Isn't that test really hard to pass?

The golf is worth £4-4500 and agreed will always increase in value and I think is likely to start going up a fair bit over the next few years. The xflow engine does scare me. The golf engine is the oldest I've worked with and modern fords are certainly my comfort zones. I will have a search around and see what else is out there for comparison. What would you advices is a good brand to go for. Love the 7 look. It with only £4K ish I'm sure I'm fairly limited.

I want something fun and reliable at track days and something I can tinker with and improve.

owelly - 15/8/17 at 06:05 AM

I'll just add: make sure the car you buy is the one on the V5! That one you mention is listed as Grey/Black. That could be a simple error and just needs the V5 to be amended, or it could be that the car has been ringed. Try to find more history to verify what's what. With kits, there's badly built good cars, and well built poor cars! Choose wisely...

SJ - 15/8/17 at 07:18 AM

My view would be the locost isn't worth £4.5k.

Personally I wouldn't want a car with a crossflow. Chances are it is is pretty worn out, and IMHO they weren't great engines when new, though no doubt plenty will disagree!

Either way it is very old technology and won't be anything like as much fun as even a relatively a modern 16v engine like a Zetec. It will leak oil & not produce much power without spending lots on it.

The car has been built with a servo on the brakes which implies the builder didn't really know what he was doing from a performance viewpoint as a non servo setup with and appropriately sized master cylinder will be much more suitable.

For tootling around country lanes the car looks fine but for track use I would give it a miss.

If I was looking for a track focused car I would want a bike engine, and you could buy this with the intention of converting it and selling the bits you take out [crossflow engines are rare so go for decent money] but that is a lot of work.


Stu

pekwah1 - 15/8/17 at 07:53 AM

Hi,

Welcome to the site, i guess my advice would be that there are plenty of kit cars around and various different varieties, it might be worth you having a google for the following and see if any take your fancy (also gives you a better idea of variety and values)

- MK Indy
- Stuart Taylor
- Aries
- Locost
- Sylva/Raw Striker
- MNR

The car looks fine from the photos you have posted, but as others have said, it's what lies below the bodywork that is important.
I had a crossflow previously, good little engines with good character, but are older now and will probably want some regular servicing, although i think they're pretty tough.

Most kit cars are built on Ford running gear, so isn't too difficult to swap a more modern ford engine (i've just installed a 16 2.0 zetec).

If you don't go for the swap, remember you can always sell the golf and take your time choosing another car, it's usually much easier with some cash in your pocket!

Good luck!
andy

mcerd1 - 15/8/17 at 09:13 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DanieljephcottWhat is mot, tax and insurance like?


Easy ones first: the Q plate currently means that you only need a visual smoke test for emissions at the MOT (ie the same as a pre-1973 car)

CO² emissions are not recorded at the SVA (or the newer IVA) and its not type approved - so it defaults to the pre-2001 above or below 1549cc levels (same as your golf) so £245 for 12 months or £150 for 6.

Insurance can be very cheap, most policy's are with specialist brokers and will have limited mileages (just like classic car ones)


quote:
Originally posted by Danieljephcott
I'm hoping you can help with information about these cars, what to look for and what parts fit if I decide to upgrade or replace parts.

All the information I have is this:
1600 gt crossflow 5 spd box twin 40 webbers new mot minilites nice car built 2007 sva tested. I believe the car is running very well and is a wide body which helps as I'm almost 6ft and...well... fat. It has no roof but this isn't an issue as I have a garage to store it in.

First question would be about the engine. I'm fairly mechanically minded but have never heard of this engine. What's it from:


As above the engine will be a ford X-Flow (derived from the kent engine) most likely from a Mk1/2 escort or maybe a cortina - they are old fashioned 8v pushrod engines, but very simple and still easy enough to get parts (at least from specialist places)
Some folk still love the these old engines and there are lots of tuning options on the market still, but you can't deny that more modern engines will give you more performance for less cash...

the 5 speed box is most likely a ford type 9 (the most common ford sierra one) - still the box of choice for a lot of folk with loads of aftermarket support, but as they are getting harder to find complete boxes aren't dirt cheap anymore. (I remember selling one for £25, now folk are asking more like £150 - 250 )

The next thing to check is what running gear is it using ?
From the photo's it looks a bit like its got sierra front hubs, but the rear axle type will be more important with regards to any future plans - it could have a live axle (possibly an escort axle as per the book design) or it could have been changed to use an IRS or DeDion setup instead (most likely using sierra diff/hubs and shafts)




But as above the single most important thing is the build quality on the harder to see bits - bad welds, bad repairs and even just bad/messy wiring could cause you massive headaches in the long run... (not saying I can see any evidence in those pics, but it pays to check it very carefully)

The SVA test should help, but as it was 10 years ago you never know whats happened since..........

DAN@ADRIAN FLUX - 15/8/17 at 12:48 PM

Hi and welcome.

Insurance in general for cars tends to be quite favorably. If you would like a quotation please feel free to private message me some contact details and I'd be happy to arrange for one of my quotes team to give you a call back if you like.

Regards,

Dan.

mookaloid - 15/8/17 at 02:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Danieljephcott

While having my car up for sale someone has approached me to do a straight swap for there locust 7.



Did you mean locust or is that a spelling mistake? The Locust was a very different car to a Locost in terms of the design although they do look similar.

The locust was a largely wooden tub put on a ladder chassis and nowhere near as good as a well built locost which should have a steel spaceframe chassis.

rayward - 15/8/17 at 03:43 PM

That car is registered as a locUst not a locOst , as said its a very different car with a ladder frame and plywood body, personally i wouldnt touch a locust ,and if that car is actually a locost theres a question over whether or not its correctly registered ,

hope this helps

Ray

mcerd1 - 15/8/17 at 06:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rayward
That car is registered as a locUst not a locOst , as said its a very different car with a ladder frame and plywood body, personally i wouldnt touch a locust ,and if that car is actually a locost theres a question over whether or not its correctly registered ,

hope this helps

Ray


It comes up as a Locost on the .gov site ??

Vehicle make:
LOCOST
Date of first registration:
April 2007
Year of manufacture:
2007
Cylinder capacity (cc):
1600 cc
CO₂Emissions:
0 g/km
Fuel type:
PETROL
Export marker:
No
Vehicle status:
Tax not due
Vehicle colour:
GREY
Vehicle type approval:
Not available
Wheelplan:
2 AXLE RIGID BODY

Danieljephcott - 15/8/17 at 06:54 PM

I wouldn't have a clue however after your help and research I think I'm looking for something wide bodied and has a modern engine. I will take a look around and see what there is.

Thanks again for all the help. What a fantastic forum

rayward - 15/8/17 at 09:27 PM

The mot history check comes up as a locust kit car ?

owelly - 15/8/17 at 11:46 PM

The MOT history thing could just be a fat fingered MOT tester. However, as I said previously, there are a few alarm bells: The Caterham chassis plates, seat belts, wrong colour on V5....It could just be someone wanting to 'bling' a Locost with Cat bits or.....who knows.