Hello helpful citizens of this forum!

Hope you can offer some advice for us. We have an end of terrace property on a quiet cul-de-sac. It's been extended to over the years as there was quite a lot of land to the side. However this has encroached the garden space. There is a 6-foot-wide strip of land, that is indicated in the title deeds to be ours, that runs along the side of the property adjacent to the public footpath. The land is just grass that we have to maintain (not the council).

We currently have a 2 meter fence that runs to the side, but we want to move it out to the legal boundary. Do we need planning permission?

In the title deeds, it mentions that the front of the property cannot have a boundary fence positioned, which it doesn't. But this is the rear private garden.





The green line is our existing fence, the blue line is where we want to move it (about 6 feet out). The blue line is also in our title deed showing as our property boundary. We want to move our existing 2 meter fence out to it.



Some history for you... The last owners of the house, we discovered they got planning permission to build a second extension out to the side of the property which they did. But at the same time, they also moved the fence out to where we want it now. IN 2008, when the planning inspector came round to sign off their extension, he asked why they moved the fence also, as it wasn't part of the plans. The inspector made them move the fence back before he would sign off the building works.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Firstly: Planning and restrictive covenants on your title deeds have nothing to do with each other. The Local Authority Planning Department do not take restrictive covenants into account when determining applications, so it's quite possible to get Planning Permission for something that you don't have the legal right to implement because of a restrictive covenant.

You're splitting hairs by trying to argue that it's 'back' garden, as it's in front of the build line along the side section of road, but that's a matter for whoever would enforce the covenant (and note that restrictive covenants have to be 'in favour' of someone and can only be enforced by that person or organisation... you couldn't be taken to court by the Local Authority or some random neighbour to enforce the covenant).



To answer your question though, you need planning permission for any fence or wall over 1m in height if it fronts an adopted highway (which this does), so yes, you'll need Planning Permission to relocate a 2m high fence.

I can also tell you (have spent a good bit of my life designing housing estate layouts!) that the fence has been positioned where it is for a specific reason: to give sufficient forward visibility for drivers as they negotiate the bend.

The design rules and ethos has changed in recent years, however. In the 'old days', under a design document called Design Bulletin 32, the idea was to give clear forward visibility for drivers to be able to see any hazard in front of them within an 'envelope' sufficient for the speed limit of the road. These days, we work to a new guidance document called 'Manual for Streets', which broadly suggests that if you restrict forward visibility, it will slow people down (because the majority of people are sensible enough to drive within the limit of stopping distance for what they can see in front of them), and thereby improve road safety.

It may be that Highways would consider the reduced forward visibility curve that would result from you relocating the fence to be acceptable, therefore, but this is one of the reasons that a Planning application is required: Highways is a Statutory Consultee on all Planning applications, and would get to say whether they are happy with it or not.

But since this is your first post on this forum, are we to assume that you signed up to Locostbuilders just to ask this question?

I think you might have misunderstood the sort of low cost building we do around here.

[Edited on 18/3/17 by Sam_68]

Interesting first post indeed.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sam_68

I think you might have misunderstood the sort of low cost building we do around here.

[Edited on 18/3/17 by Sam_68]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by tims31
And how many of us actually manage to stick to low cost????

---

I reckon Ron. could have rebuilt Hadrians Wall for less than £250 using some pallets and old bed irons . These boundary projects aw very topical at the moment !

Thanks Sam and to others who responded.

I joined the forum because I need a builder/landscaper to re-landscape our garden and re-position our fence. I wouldn't be skilled enough to be able to do it myself. Noticing that others have asked planning permission questions before and some of you quite knowledgeable, thought it a good place to ask the question!

If I have to fork out £172 for the planning permission, then so be it. One or two neighbours remarked to me that I should just go ahead and move it without. I do understand the restrictive covenants, but it specifically talks about the front portion of the house and not the side or rear of it. Since our 2 meter fence has been there since the house was constructed (bar the short period the previous owners moved it out), there has (afterall) been a large fence in place all this time.

I can understand where you're coming from with the bend and traffic. However this is a very quiet cul de sac, certainly not a busy highway. I think it might affect the neighbour adjacent to our rear garden as he has a driveway just there and would need to edge out further to look to see if any car is coming. When I called planning for an informal chat, they said that would likely be the main issue to take into consideration. However, they did say to take some photos of other properties in the area who have done the same thing and that it might help our application.

So you wouldn't advise just moving it out I suppose?! :-)

quote:

---

Originally posted by pappy12
I joined the forum because I need a builder/landscaper to re-landscape our garden and re-position our fence.

---

quote:

---

I joined the forum because I need a builder/landscaper to re-landscape our garden and re-position our fence.

---

And just to reinforce the point on fences - I had an old hedge 9' tall alongside my house which was infested with Ivy. An 18' section died and fell over onto the adjacent pathway. I removed it and put in 3 6' panels with concrete posts.
A few months later I went to my local planning department to ask questions about an extension I wanted to build, I took some photos and showed them at which point it was pointed out that I could not have fence panels above 1m high (as Sam_68 pointed out) and would have to apply for retrospective planning permission to keep the panels I had put up. It didn't make any difference that I was replcing a hedge that was taller! I have now done that and had planning approval for the whole of the boundary - and the extension has been built without planning permission as I didn't need it for that. Crazy set of rules if you ask me.

quote:

---

Originally posted by andyace

quote:

---

I joined the forum because I need a builder/landscaper to re-landscape our garden and re-position our fence.

---

LOL ... that's hilarious!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sam_68

quote:

---

Originally posted by pappy12
I joined the forum because I need a builder/landscaper to re-landscape our garden and re-position our fence.

---

For the avoidance of doubt (in case the logo at the top of the screen isn't a big enough hint), this forum is for people interested in self-building lightweight sports cars. There was a book with plans and instructions of how to build your own car, and the designfor that car became known as the 'Locost'.

Locostbuilders... geddit?

We have a few people on here who know about building work (I'm the Director of an architectural practice, for example), but that's purely by coincidence.

If, on the other hand, you want a fence made out of second-hand steel tube held together with chickenshit welding, you're definitely in the right place.

---

Hi so you made a mistake so what
all i can say your property looks like mine and the 6ft fence is right on the boundary
if that helps
jacko

Jez, offer advice then jump down the mans throat for asking a question, locost builders could easily be a building forum after all.

So you can put up a fence up to 1m, you could risk putting up a fence above this and if it gets complaints then the council may ask you to reduce it.

I expect the estate has covenants, however these are rarely enforced on anything over 10 years old. My house has restrictions and the developer folded 20 years ago so it is highly unlightly that anything will be done about the multitude of hedges and fences in place today. In the 80's having open fronted land was very popular along with rules such as no caravans etc.

You could try a few posts and chain to delineate the land and see if anyone kicks off.

Building control upon sign off will look for things to match the drawings, neighbors built a house with fence then planted small lural bushes behind the fence to hide it from their side, not on the drawings had to remove as they were not included.



[Edited on 18/3/17 by mark chandler]

Someone mentioned Hadrian's wall.... I guess that'll be a locost re-build....

quote:

---

Originally posted by pappy12 I think it might affect the neighbour adjacent to our rear garden as he has a driveway just there and would need to edge out further to look to see if any car is coming. When I called planning for an informal chat, they said that would likely be the main issue to take into consideration.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark Chandler
Building control upon sign off will look for things to match the drawings...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by pappy12
I get the "locost" now, but locost could also mean "low cost" ;-)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sam_68
We can't persuade you to build your own car, I don't suppose? By the time you'd finished, a bit of fencing would hold no fear, I assure you...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mcerd1

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sam_68
We can't persuade you to build your own car, I don't suppose? By the time you'd finished, a bit of fencing would hold no fear, I assure you...

---

yeah, forget the fence - get the planning to build a garage / workshop instead...

there are kits / projects around to suit all tastes and most budgets

[Edited on 18/3/2017 by mcerd1]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by pappy12

quote:

---

Originally posted by mcerd1

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sam_68
We can't persuade you to build your own car, I don't suppose? By the time you'd finished, a bit of fencing would hold no fear, I assure you...

---

yeah, forget the fence - get the planning to build a garage / workshop instead...

there are kits / projects around to suit all tastes and most budgets

[Edited on 18/3/2017 by mcerd1]

---

I think I'd be completely useless. Not only that, when you're self-employed, have a wife, 4 kids, 1 german shepherd and 6 chickens... there isn't time for a shower and a shave, never mind building a kit car! LOL!

---

Interesting thread both for the misunderstanding of Locostbuilders (I get this regularly with spammy emails asking me to advertise building materials) but also for the subject matter.

My new neighbour has recently moved his fence out about 1m creating zero visibility coming out of my drive. Literally you have to be half way out into the road to see if anything is coming. It is not a busy road; there are only seven houses beyond my drive, but it still makes it difficult. My concern though is that the road is not adopted (as far as I know - certainly we are all supposed to pay in if the road ever needs maintenance)

Also the neighbour is also a total d*%&head; within a few months of living here he was trying to tell people where they could and couldn't park (whilst ignoring his 'rules' himself) and has thoroughly annoyed everything else who lives here. He has been round several times asking me to be quiet in the garage at the weekend too*.

I have been meaning to complain to the council about it (see above as to why I am not going to speak to him direct) but wasn't sure if I had any real grounds other than to be a pain in the arse.

Anyone offer any advice on my position?

My advice to the OP is if you are going to do this without getting permission don't upset your neighbours beforehand!)

Chris

*Actually that reminds me of another story... where we used to live the neighbour constantly complained about my MR2. Came round one morning saying his wife was kept awake because I had been rev'ing it up in the garage all night. I was very smug to show him the car and point out that the engine bay was empty and the engine in bits on the workbench. I never heard from him again!

I have exactly the same issue with land down the left hand side of our house, roughly 1m in width. Ideal for moving the fence etc. We move in to the house less that 6 months ago. As I was told the land was ours, I asked if we could use it. It was told no by the solicitor and it needed to be maintained as a boundary.