hi. I've been looking for a bellhousing to link a t16 to a type 9 box, apparently caterham do the bellhousing, but not specifically for the t series engine.

would it be k series that they do, and if so is the bolt pattern the same?

any help would be much appreciated!

a silly assumption but I'm guessing as I've not come across a caterham with that engine and its a t as opposed to a k series/type engine it'd be different. try asking robinhood/lolocost as they've used the t16 (the turbo one isn't it?)to the type9 IIRC.

cheers,

Ned.

It seems entirely possible that the T and K series engines have the same bolt pattern but I know not for sure.
Might be worth asking people on
http://forums.mg-rover.org/
There's almost certainly someone on there who can answer your question.

Yip, as said above, Robinhood have used the T-series with a Ford gearbox although I think it was the MT75 not the type 9. These might be the same pattern though I don't know.

I use the T-series ever day and like it very much but IMHO it is too heavy for the Locost and has that flaming annoying cyl head oil leak. I've had an 800 Vitesse for 5 years and even repaired the head leak (properly) myself but it was back in 12 months.

Come on, join the Rover V8 brigade, you know you want to!!


Cheers,
Craig.

"...Come on, join the Rover V8 brigade, you know you want to!! "

Can't argue with that

ATB

Simon

Joel,
Is the T not essentially an O series with a 16v head? The O series has the same gearbox mounts as the B series and type 9 bellhouses are readily available from MG and Minor suppliers.

Hi-gear I think were the first to offer kits, check out the MG websites.

Good luck,
Ian

cheers all.

IAN! thats where i got pointed towards caterham, only reply in a week, still appreciated (must remember to go back and say thanks anyway...!)

i hear y'all about the weight, but its a super cheap 250bhp and more to the point, i already have one!!! running it at say 11psi should be reliable and get most of the 250 by itself! de cat and a good air filter will help the cause no end too!

anyway, im off to look for a moggy specialist. anyone suggest a company or a good keyword to google for?!

thanks again all.

Joel,
I have a 1976 MGB gearbox with overdrive. I have heard that they can cope with V8 power. Maybe thats a road for you to go down! (Come and get it!)

Ian

Edited to add Roger Parkers email address. He's converted nearly every Rover engine to RWD!

[Edited on 26/1/04 by ijohnston99]

Joel,
I'm running my Vitesse with variable boost using the bleed valve approach. You'll be lucky to get 250BHP without increasing fuel regulator pressure but 220-230BHP is easily achievable. Mine is a Vitesse (not Vitesse sport) and being a 1993 car it has the harder pistons (Mahle) rather than the chocolate pistons which later cars were fitted with. Check which pistons you have in yours and if they are the newer ones then limit boost to about 11Psi which will give around 215BHP. If you have the Mahle pistons then you can go up to the 14PSI limit at which fuel pressure is insufficient and the ECU will cut out the engine. The pistons can take up to about 280BHP but you need to modify the ECU to remove the safety cutout to achieve that. I've run mine up to about 13PSI and it is certainly rapid but traction is a real pain out of slow corners and roundabouts where you have to feather the throttle just to get moving due to excessive torque. You will be aware how torquey this engine is and I would advise you to get a very good uprated gearbox to handle it if you do go with the transplant. The gearbox on the T-series has proven not to be up to the job and certainly doesn't like tuned T-series's. Apparently Sherpa and Princess gearboxes can be fitted but I don't know how strong they are. I think a Rover SD1 2000 is also compatible.

Yes the T-series is basically a big iron block O-series engine with a 16V head. The O-series had a bigger turbo but was less efficient. Some people say the O-series was a better engine but it also had lots of problems of its own.

I have to be honest and say that I seriously considered building a T-series into my Locost but was put off by the weight which I believe is over 330lbs and the dimensions of the engine. For that weight and size I can have a Rover V8 and it only costs half as much. With the money you save you can get some performance parts to bring power up to 200BHP and with even more torque than the T-series, not to mention the glorious V8 burble!!

Good luck with the project, I'll be interested to see how you get on.
Craig.

Agree with all that Craig says about the engine - except I haven't upgraded the boost on mine. For the original application it is well worth getting the torsen diff out of the vitesse sport - that gives amazing traction.

if using the T series, make sure you use the klinger type head gasket - it is vastly better than the standard ones and only a couple of quid more - well worth it if the head is off for any reason.

Andy,
I used the klinger gasket from Rover and had the head skimmed professionally and I rebuilt the engine with scrupulous attention to detail and cleanliness, especially with the block and head mating faces but I still have another oil leak only 12 months after the rebuild. I know of a few other owners who have had the same experience. I also got brand new head bolts and torqued them down properly.

I think the only true solution would be to machine the block and head to accept a metal sealing ring.

Cheers,
Craig.

would you believe i posted a question on the rover forum and got sent back here! we got described as a nice bunch of chaps!!!!

someone suggested that an SD1 2 litre box might go straight on the t16. Any ideas anyone?

thanks...

Joel,
read my last but one posting (yes I know it was a bit long winded...)

I said:

quote:

---

Apparently Sherpa and Princess gearboxes can be fitted but I don't know how strong they are. I think a Rover SD1 2000 is also compatible

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by craig1410

All you need now is a Rover SD1 2000, Austin Princess or Sherpa Van...

Cheers,
Craig.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by craig1410
Joel,
read my last but one posting (yes I know it was a bit long winded...)

Cheers,
Craig.

---

I think the SD1 2000 box may fit, but it was a relatively low power engine so don't know how strong it is.

I put a klinger gasket on my T16 last May, it had a very small seep straight away but I think that was due to a scoring mark left by the skimming process. So far it hasn't got any worse - but it is only 9 months old so I will wait and see (or change the car soon!!)

balls, im all indecisive now... got me thinking about weights, sizes and damn gearboxes

but what the hell do i do with the vitesse if i dont cut it up and use the engine? its an m plate vitesse sport, needs a new 17 inch wheel and os rear suspension. trouble is the cars only worth 500 tops really.

how the hell can the 3500 v8 weigh less than a 2 litre 4 pot? its madness. what were they thinking of!! aluminium block comes floating thru the cobwebs, is this true?!

Joel - you are right about the weight - V8 has an aluminium block, T16 cast iron.

The T16 is a great engine in itself, lots of torque and apparently unburstable if the boost is kept reasonable.

You could break the vitesse - the gearbox from a sport is worth about £150 on its own provided it really is the sport box. I have seen a few full interiors going for about £100. Engine probably worth a few quid too. I am seriously thinking of breaking mine and selling the parts when I eventually get around to replacing it as it will probably be worth more that way than whole.

Let me know if you do break it though, there might be a few bits I want.

quote:

---

how the hell can the 3500 v8 weigh less than a 2 litre 4 pot? its madness. what were they thinking of!! aluminium block comes floating thru the cobwebs, is this true?!

---

Joel,
Yes as Andy says the V8 is lighter. Figures I have are about 318lbs all up with ancillaries and fluids. The T-series is 330lbs bare, again going by internet figures. I actually manhandled my V8 on the back of my trailer when cleaning it down. I was fairly easily able to tip it up and slide it around. I then installed the engine myself into my awaiting chassis in about 20 minutes using my children's swing and a chain block. It actually "felt" lighter to handle than A-series mini engines which I used to work on. I know it isn't lighter than an a-series but as it is physically bigger is somehow seems lighter than it is (less dense I suppose). Obviously you would need to add the LT77 gearbox to it to compare it with the Mini which would alter the perception somewhat.

As for breaking prices, there is a guy in Aberdeen (Barrem Motors) who specialises in Rover breaking and he seems to sell second hand Vitesse engines for £400-£450. I'm not sure if this includes the gearbox or ancillaries but I'd expect it does. You're right about the value of the Vitesse (sadly) and you can get a 2nd hand "V" reg 1999 Vitesse fastback with 40k miles on it for £2380 according to Parkers guide. The saloon is a bit dearer at around £3710 for some reason.

My advice, being an advocate of both engines, would be to stick to a well troden path and of the two, the V8 path seems more well troden! Quite a few guys on the forum here are building V8 cars. Try to sell off your Vitesse (whole or in bits) and use the money to get a V8 engine and 'box. I got my engine for £175 and my gearbox for £140. This includes all ancillaries and was a runner before I personally helped to strip it out of the SD1 donor. You would need a wider chassis such as the McSorely 7+4".

Give it some serious thought as the turbo characteristics may not be ideal in a lightweight locost. The V8 will be a big enough handful without the power being non-linear like on the turbo engine.

HTH,
Craig.

Stu,
Which other engines do Westfield supply?

The point we are making here is that the T-series is heavy, not that the V8 is light! The V8 is certainly lighter than a 2 Litre Pinto but you can't compare it with the likes of a K-series 1.8 as these are also alloy block engines and only 4 pots. I think the K-series is around 100Kg's (220lbs) IIRC.

Cheers,
Craig.

cheers for the input guys.

i think i'm gonna finish it with the pinto for now, keep the vitesse to use in a rear engined car, and investigate the size of the v8 and see if it will fit in my chassis later. mine is a bit bigger than book in some ways but the engine is a long way back, middle of the bellhousing is level with the clutch mount, and has some bars added in unfortunate places!

then again, i wanna do a bec sometime. i guess the v8 would be nice though!

ah decisions decisions...

got the pinto sat in it today anyway, i hope its the final time of taking it in and out cos im sick of doing it, gonna start wiring it tomorrow...

Joel,
Don't get dragged down by all this debate, finish it with the Pinto sounds good. It's not a bad old engine although it is heavier than the V8...

Timf,
Here is the website that recommended the Princess gearbox to fit the T-series although maybe they only meant to use the bellhousing... It's a bit of a messy discussion so read it for yourself and see what you make of it:
http://www.spagweb.com/v8mini/diary/2000_11.htm

These guys seem hell bent on getting V8 engines to fit in Mini's which has certainly been done with dramatic results...

Cheers,
Craig.

on that thread they imply that o/m/t are all the same box pattern, and that the princess box is quite reliable.

quote:

---

but if you want an easy option then the m/t 16 on a princess gearbox should take an afternoon! - but it will be a little heavy

---

Just for the info - an A series Mini engine/box weighs 330 lbs fully fitted. Bloody heavy when it falls off a trolley jack and you try to catch it as I did on Sunday!

I also can't figure why a saloon rover 800 is worse more than a hatch.

[Edited on 28/1/04 by andyps]

Andy,
That is interesting about the A-series engine and certainly explains why I found the weight comparable to the V8! I used to sling the A-series engines in and out of my old mini by hand (with a friend helping...) My mini had a removable fibreglass front and you could just take it off, detach the engine from all the plumbing etc and lift it straight out. I must have gone through 6 or 7 engines while I had my little mini including a turbo charged one with increased boost pressure (~ 140 BHP). That was bloody good fun!!

Yes I don't understand the pricing on the 800 either as I always thought the Fastback was more popular but then again, maybe that's why it is cheaper - lots around? Mine's a saloon from 1993 with 127k miles on it. Still goes very well although I do give it more respect than I used to now due to its age.

Cheers,
Craig.

i prefer the fast back ones myself, mainly cos im fussy about a rear wiper! the busted one is a saloon anyway, IIRC i've had 2 fastback ones as well.

one of my fav features is the one touch electrics, well designed for the time. especially considering its a rover...

ps whilst im here, is there only one kind of LT77 or is it different on the v8? ta...

[Edited on 29/1/04 by JoelP]

quote:

---

Originally posted by craig1410
Stu,
Which other engines do Westfield supply?

The point we are making here is that the T-series is heavy, not that the V8 is light! The V8 is certainly lighter than a 2 Litre Pinto but you can't compare it with the likes of a K-series 1.8 as these are also alloy block engines and only 4 pots. I think the K-series is around 100Kg's (220lbs) IIRC.

Cheers,
Craig.

---

Joel,
The LT77 came in two variants as far as I know. The non-Vitesse (early box) and the later Vitesse/VDP Efi box which had some modifications to the bearings to make it stronger. i could be wrong but I think it had roller bearings instead if ball bearings (anyone able to confirm this?)

Also, later V8 cars such as the Morgan's/TVR's have an R380 gearbox which fits to the same bellhousing but is a revised and re-engineered box which is supposed to be much better. LT77's are in short supply these days by all accounts, especially good ones!

Cheers,
Craig.