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Help me find some unions
flak monkey - 19/1/10 at 05:33 PM

I am struggling to find the appropriate connectors for my hydraulic clutch. One of the things thats really annoying me - of all the simple things!

The slave cylinder has M12x1 connections with a concave seat.

The master cylinder has 3/8x24 connection with concave seat.

I have tried fitting normal M12 unions with 3/16" copper pipe and I dont reckon they are going to seal. They will do right up to the end of the thread, and if dismantled it looks like the flare has only just contacted the seat in the cylinder. The flares are formed properly.

My current plan is to use a short length of copper pipe from the slave cylinder to just outside the bellhousing, then run braided hose the rest of the way to the master cylinder.

I am just concerned about these unions inside the bellhousing leaking meaning I have to take the damned engine out again.

Has anyone seen any bulkhead style (i.e. longer) M12x1 unions? I con only find short ones.

Alternatively -4 hose connectors with a 3/8UNF thread? I have found M12 ones on the think auto site.

Thanks,
David

scootz - 19/1/10 at 05:37 PM

Found some...


scootz - 19/1/10 at 05:38 PM

Oh... UNIONS... sorry!

contaminated - 19/1/10 at 05:38 PM

You can deffo get longer M12 unions - I use them in a couple of places on mine. I just went to a local motor factors.

r1_pete - 19/1/10 at 05:43 PM

How about using braided hose end to end, and sealing against the cylinder bodies with copper o rings?

I've just re-piped the jag clutch like that to cut out solid to flexi joints and generally tidy things up.

BenB - 19/1/10 at 05:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Oh... UNIONS... sorry!



LOL!!! ROTF

Howlor - 19/1/10 at 05:50 PM

I am sure I have seen them in the Pirtek catalogue. I will dig it out and check for you.

Steve

contaminated - 19/1/10 at 05:50 PM

Tell a lie, mine are M10 I think. The Furore site discusses unions in relation to flexi pipe - why don't you ask Russ?

Agriv8 - 19/1/10 at 05:58 PM

Flak,

Not at home but sound like the issue I had with the AP concentic Slave (the plan was the saab item would not fit over the BMW gearbox Input shaft - not a cheep option in the end - but I digress !!!)

Forum Code: Ap-slave
Ap-slave

I belive I have some spare long m12 x 1 for coper pipe at home how long do you think you need them to be 11.5 min ?

Or option 2 is I * think * have a M12x1 long ends for -4 braded hose as that the way I did mine but you would need the hose

Let me know if you want me to go for a dig

Regards

Agriv8

[Edited on 19/1/10 by Agriv8]

flak monkey - 19/1/10 at 07:04 PM

The ideal would be to do it all in braided and is what I had planned to do.

Like I said I have found hose ends for -4 hose for the M12 at the slave cylinder. But I cannot find 3/8UNF hose ends in -4 anywhere, they are all -3 If I could then i would just run -4 hose all the way.

Agriv8, what size hose are your unions for? 1/4 or 3/16? I need them to be 3/16 as I need to fit an M10 connector the other end to use the -3 hose ends I have.

Basically the ideal is I need a 3/8UNF -4 hose end for the min number of joints

Neville Jones - 19/1/10 at 07:05 PM

You've got a lathe.

Tracy Tools in Devon for cheap dies, and the job's done just how you want it.

I'm making M10x1->-6 fittings for a fuel pump, steel. Can buy ali, but not steel.

Also, 1/8 bspt >-6 steel, to fit those nice pressure regulators on ebay. Can't buy these fittings either.

These are a real PITA to make, but it's the only way to get them. Zinc passivate when done for a pretty finish.

All that said, check Think Auto, and talk to them. They have a lot of stuff that's not in their catalogue or on the web.

Cheers,
Nev.

bob - 19/1/10 at 07:14 PM

Think automotive s a good shout, they would be the 1st on my hit list.

http://www.thinkauto.com

I've bought a few bits there and if you mention you found them through this site you MIGHT get a small discount as well.

russbost - 19/1/10 at 07:57 PM

David
I can do a -04 7/16 female connector with a male/male adapter to 3/8 male convex - dunno if that helps? It is the crimp type end, do you have crimping facilities?
I take it the -04 M12 stuff you've located is NOT crimp type ends?

flak monkey - 19/1/10 at 08:05 PM

Think I have found what I need

Me rlin Motorsport

Bloody expensive though!

Thanks for the reply Russ. ThinkAuto do an M12x1 to -4 hose end in the reusable sort. I dont have crimping tools

How much thread is on the adaptor? I'll need to check how much I need to seal on the master cylinder thats all.

02GF74 - 19/1/10 at 08:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey

My current plan is to use a short length of copper pipe from the slave cylinder to just outside the bellhousing, then run braided hose the rest of the way to the master cylinder.

I am just concerned about these unions inside the bellhousing leaking meaning I have to take the damned engine out again.



That is a good plan. LAnd Rover have been using that system for over 50 years, albeit with rubber and not braided hoses.

I fitted braided hoses to my Series and did even consider that my joins would leak. As far I as know, tjhey haven;t otherwise the reseervoir would be empty by no. You being mechanical engineer should not doubt your ablilties to do such a simple job.

flak monkey - 19/1/10 at 08:15 PM

I don't doubt my abilities, I just doubt the suitability of the unions I have. Like I said with the current unions they arent very tight before they bottom out on the threads and in the cylinder, past experience tells me they arent going to seal.

My experience also says to me that the minimum number of joints will be the best solution. Question is should I spend £55 on unions to get the best solution? Answer is probably yes. I am just suprised by their cost! Especially as almost all others are about £5-10!

I may have a measure up to see if I should make some of my own fittings! Anyone know what angle the seats are on hose fittings? I think its 90deg?

David

[Edited on 19/1/10 by flak monkey]

flak monkey - 19/1/10 at 09:04 PM

Going to have a go at making my own ends for the -3 hose.

Looks pretty simple to do really. I have identified the thread on the compression fitting end as 3/8UNEF (yes the E is meant to be there - 32tpi extra fine version of unf) and found a die to do the job.

I just need to decide what material to make them from. What does the LCB collective think? Steel or ali?

Thanks for the help as always

David

Danozeman - 19/1/10 at 10:04 PM

David you must have a local pertek or other hydraulics place. Go down there and have a word. Im sure pertek will have something,

Agriv8 - 20/1/10 at 08:03 AM

flak,

sorry mis read that thouht you were strugling with the M12 end.

In that case id be taking the bits down to Pertek they have always managed to sort somthing out for me in the past.

The other point I would metion is I seem to remeber reading that depending how much fluid you are moving bigger is a better for cluch curcuits to allow higer volume at lower presure if that makes sense thats why the ap unit M12

Regards Agriv8

greglogan - 20/1/10 at 10:48 AM

UNIONS

hope this helps......




Sorry

Greg.

flak monkey - 20/1/10 at 12:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Agriv8
flak,

sorry mis read that thouht you were strugling with the M12 end.

In that case id be taking the bits down to Pertek they have always managed to sort somthing out for me in the past.

The other point I would metion is I seem to remeber reading that depending how much fluid you are moving bigger is a better for cluch curcuits to allow higer volume at lower presure if that makes sense thats why the ap unit M12

Regards Agriv8


I think I will make one M12 end to fit the dash 3 hose and use that for the bleed connection.

Then buy a dash 4 M12 end and a dash 4 7/16UNF end for the feed. And modify the 7/16unf to be 3/8 UNF if there is enough meat on it (I should think there will be - hopefully!)

That should give me a -4 feed and -3 bleed which will be fine I reckon.

rusty nuts - 20/1/10 at 07:27 PM

Saw some 12mm fittings today on a Volvo V70 although the pipes looked to be around 6mm , might be of help. Mel