TOTO pistons, any good ??
bonzoronnie - 28/10/11 at 06:14 PM
Hi folks
I am wanting to upgrade the 1.6 Pinto engine in my lads car ( Sierra Sapphire )
Managed to get hold of a 205 block 2 litre engine, this turns out to have the injection head fitted & for all I know, it could be a full injection
engine !!
Was sold as a P100 engine but with an engine production date of March 1986 it would not appear to be the case ( GS***** engine number & 86 cast
into the head )
Would like to have the block bored out to 93mm to achieve a 2.1 conversion.
Would love to be able to shop at Burton Power but sadly can't afford to go down that route.
I can source a set of TOTO pistons that are the required 2.25mm oversize or for an extra £100 more I can get a set of AE pistons of the right size.
Never heard of TOTO pistons, I am kinda hoping that some of the engine guru's on here will be able to provide some input 
Not looking for top notch kit but don't want to shell out money on total crap.
Any input would be most welcome
Edited because I cocked up on the pricing 
[Edited on 28/10/11 by bonzoronnie]
BaileyPerformance - 28/10/11 at 07:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by bonzoronnie
Hi folks
I am wanting to upgrade the 1.6 Pinto engine in my lads car ( Sierra Sapphire )
Managed to get hold of a 205 block 2 litre engine, this turns out to have the injection head fitted & for all I know, it could be a full injection
engine !!
Was sold as a P100 engine but with an engine production date of March 1986 it would not appear to be the case ( GS***** engine number & 86 cast
into the head )
Would like to have the block bored out to 93mm to achieve a 2.1 conversion.
Would love to be able to shop at Burton Power but sadly can't afford to go down that route.
I can source a set of TOTO pistons that are the required 2.25mm oversize or for an extra £100 more I can get a set of AE pistons of the right size.
Never heard of TOTO pistons, I am kinda hoping that some of the engine guru's on here will be able to provide some input
Not looking for top notch kit but don't want to shell out money on total crap.
Any input would be most welcome
Edited because I cocked up on the pricing
[Edited on 28/10/11 by bonzoronnie]
Neva used them, but just had a look on the web, look like Chinese cheap and nasty, but as i say never used them.
The old way to get a pinto to 2.1 was use 4 pistons from a stock 2.8 V6?
But, i've got to say unless your bottom end is worn out leave it at 2.0L unless you are planning more engine mods, the extra 100cc on an
otherwise stock engine makes very little difference (maybe 3-5BHP)
I good way to get more power from a stock 2.0L is raise the compression, a 1.6L head (fitted with the 2.0L cam) will raise the compression to around
10.5/1 giving around 110BHP and more low down grunt plus better MPG.
Are you running injection or carb?
bonzoronnie - 28/10/11 at 07:40 PM
Many thanks for the valuable info.
Certainly didn't think of using the 1.6 head to raise compression, I had read that the chamber sizes were smaller on the 1.6 head .
The bottom of the engine does need a little work to the crank, big ends are showing more wear than I would like but the mains look fine.
The bores do not look to bad, only the faintest of steps on the tops of the bores, would probably get away with a new set of rings.
That said, I have only had a visual inspection at the moment, have not taken any vernier readings of the bores & crank journals.
My original plan was to boost performance a little, without going stupid mental in regards ultimate performance or spending an obscene amount of
money.
To be honest my lad would be happy with about 120-130 BHP
To that end, I was planning to bore out too 2.1 & fit a Kent FR32 fast road cam kit, as for fuelling I was intending to stick with the webber twin
choke to sort of suck it & see.
Top it off with a better Manifold.
Like you say, might be able to see almost 120BHP sticking with the 1.6 head.
Many thanks for your help.
ashg - 28/10/11 at 08:09 PM
zetec it ronnie you have got that 1800 gti motor kicking about.
MikeRJ - 28/10/11 at 10:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
I good way to get more power from a stock 2.0L is raise the compression, a 1.6L head (fitted with the 2.0L cam) will raise the compression to around
10.5/1 giving around 110BHP and more low down grunt plus better MPG.
The 2.0L injection head flows better than the standard 1.6/2.0L head though, so would the gains in CR outweigh the loss of flow?
snapper - 29/10/11 at 07:09 AM
Done this, got the teeshirt, intact have 3 Pintos, 1 standard, 1 2.1 with 2.25 oversize, 1 with V6 pistons
2.25 oversize pistons on eBay £120 + delivery
2.25 are standard pinto interference fit on standard rods
V6 pistons are shorter crown height and need block decked or longer rods
I fitted mine to cosworth rods but this requires machining for circlips
1600 head has 38cc chambers (2 litre gead 48cc) and on a 2.1 engine will give 11.5 to 1 compression
Anything over 10.5 to 1 requires forged pistons
You should try and sell the 1600 head on Turbosports forum.
To get 120-130bhp
Injection head
Bike carbs
Thinner felpro head gasket (compression to 9.7 to 1)
Or skim head
Or both
10.5 to 1 max for cast pistons
Fr32 cam with vernier pulley
Megajolt
Proper rolling road tune
[Edited on 29/10/11 by snapper]
MikeR - 29/10/11 at 08:58 AM
Of....
Zetec, new exhaust, fueling?, reuse flywheel, new engine mounts, new cooling.
When bored upgrade to 2ltr or look at turbo.
not sure its actually an obvious decision which way to go.
BaileyPerformance - 31/10/11 at 11:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by snapper
Done this, got the teeshirt, intact have 3 Pintos, 1 standard, 1 2.1 with 2.25 oversize, 1 with V6 pistons
2.25 oversize pistons on eBay £120 + delivery
2.25 are standard pinto interference fit on standard rods
V6 pistons are shorter crown height and need block decked or longer rods
I fitted mine to cosworth rods but this requires machining for circlips
1600 head has 38cc chambers (2 litre gead 48cc) and on a 2.1 engine will give 11.5 to 1 compression
Anything over 10.5 to 1 requires forged pistons
You should try and sell the 1600 head on Turbosports forum.
To get 120-130bhp
Injection head
Bike carbs
Thinner felpro head gasket (compression to 9.7 to 1)
Or skim head
Or both
10.5 to 1 max for cast pistons
Fr32 cam with vernier pulley
Megajolt
Proper rolling road tune
[Edited on 29/10/11 by snapper]
Hi, why do you say you need forged pistons for 11.5/cr? why is 10.5/1 max for cast pistons? The factory cast pistons are strong, so i can only assume
you have had a piston failure due to detonation?
BaileyPerformance - 31/10/11 at 11:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
I good way to get more power from a stock 2.0L is raise the compression, a 1.6L head (fitted with the 2.0L cam) will raise the compression to around
10.5/1 giving around 110BHP and more low down grunt plus better MPG.
The 2.0L injection head flows better than the standard 1.6/2.0L head though, so would the gains in CR outweigh the loss of flow?
Pintos love compression, the extra grunt produced by a raising the compression outweighs the very slight flow disadvantage of using the 1600 head. The
injection head is the one to use if further mods are planned, but if the stock inlet manifold is retained there is no point using the injection head.
Using the 1600 head is just a good cheap mod to do, assuming the rest of the engine is stock.
The standard square top carb on the stock manifold will flow enough air for 140BHP, so no need to change it unless more power is required.
If real power is the goal then turbocharging is the only way to go on full engine management, the stock 2.0L engine is strong and will take alot of
punishment, with a decent turbo setup i would expect 200BHP and reasonable MPG.
I would go as far as to say a good turbo pinto would be better than a turbo zetec due to the pintos nice power curve, less top end power than a zetec
but better to drive.
bonzoronnie - 10/11/11 at 07:09 PM
Been a bit tardy with keeping my progress up to date .
Thank you so much for all of the input guys, it is very much appreciated 
Some really useful information there.
The engine block is now at my local engine builders & is being bored out to 93mm then fitted with new pistons.
Going to fit a Kent FR32 cam kit, stick with the stock webber twin choke for starters & see how it goes from there.
Have ordered a 4-2-1 exhaust manifold.
Agreed, it will probably end up as a half assed attempt for staters, nowhere near to releasing the available power 
Hopefully further work can be done when spring comes around, very interested in the turbo route
Thanks all.
[Edited on 10/11/11 by bonzoronnie]