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tones - 25/11/11 at 09:18 AM

Hi,
New to the site so if the question has been asked before my appologies.
Having embarked on my first build and not really researching things through(do that alot).
I have a doner 1.4rover and a engine off a 1.6,type 9 gearbox quite a price to put the engine and g/box together
My questionis can I use the ecu to run the 1.6, from my doner 1.4 both engines are from the same year and have mems3 .
I think the base maps would be the same as there is not too much power difference although the 1.6 has more torque.just wanting to save a few bob
Thanks
Tony

coyoteboy - 25/11/11 at 10:55 AM

Not likely, you'll be running rich as hell. Timing probably won't be a mile off but fueling for a 1.6 will be about 15% too rich across the board, from back of the envelope figures. And that's assuming all the sensors are the same.

Chippy - 25/11/11 at 11:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Not likely, you'll be running rich as hell. Timing probably won't be a mile off but fueling for a 1.6 will be about 15% too rich across the board, from back of the envelope figures. And that's assuming all the sensors are the same.


Wrong way round I think, the fueling will be weak as hell going from 1.4 to 1.6. There are loads of these engines in the scrappers, so getting a 1.6 ECU shouldn't be a problem. IMHO Ray

coyoteboy - 25/11/11 at 11:51 AM

Oops, well spotted - for some reason I read that the wrong way round Having said that, if the ECU is based on air flow measurement it might cope a lot better than expected, but then the timing will be all to pot (probably heavily retarded under load as it's now seeing much more flow than it expects so assumes you're under heavy load).

britishtrident - 25/11/11 at 12:52 PM

Unless you have the ECU's security feature disabled you will run into the problem of flywheel reluctor ring not being coded to the ECU.


The fuel injector size is common to the 1.4 and 1.6 (although the injector type changed at year 2000)
Although the power outputs are similar the 1.6 has a fatter torque curve than the 1.4.
With MEMS 3 the engine should run closed loup at least up to 3,000 rpm but not at wide open throttle.


I would be tempted to try it and see if the MEMS can self-adjust the fuel trims enough
If you get weakness mid-range you could try tweaking the pressure regulator or fitting 1.8 "blue-grey" injectors from a 75 or Freelander.


If the ECU is fully EOBD compliant (depends on year not all MEMS 3 are) a 1.6 map can be loaded in.

coyoteboy - 25/11/11 at 01:49 PM

quote:

With MEMS 3 the engine should run closed loup at least up to 3,000 rpm but not at wide open throttle. I would be tempted to try it and see if the MEMS can self-adjust the fuel trims enough


Most OEM trims I've seen are limited to 5 or 10%? I think this would throw a MIL if at an extreme of trim for a long time.

IMO the price of ECUs is low enough not to bother faffing and risking engine damage.

Daf - 25/11/11 at 02:01 PM

I have a 1.6 ECU, Key and alarm box going spare - got a funny feeling it's an early one though so might be no use for you?

britishtrident - 25/11/11 at 02:02 PM

Rovers run happily with big fuel trims, not unkown to find +20% LTF

Gary 7 - 25/11/11 at 04:19 PM

I have seen a 1400 ecu run a 1800 k series , not ideal but it works ,use the 1400 flywheel and injectors and use a adjustable fuel regulator to adjust the fueling. A few caterham owners have done a similar thing (see link)


http://www.superse7ens.co.uk/conversion.html

britishtrident - 25/11/11 at 05:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gary 7
I have seen a 1400 ecu run a 1800 k series , not ideal but it works ,use the 1400 flywheel and injectors and use a adjustable fuel regulator to adjust the fueling. A few caterham owners have done a similar thing (see link)


http://www.superse7ens.co.uk/conversion.html



Good article ! but to update some of the info it a bit, later Rover 1.4 engines have black injectors, the next size up is the blue-grey, there are other variations available used on the vvc and various KV6.

The standard fuel pressure regulator used on the 200/25/400/45 (not the 75) can be fiddled to give an extra 0.5 bar or more pressure by carefully squeezing it between two 1/2" drive sockets using a vice.


Also with flywheels on later engines Rover introduced a lot more variations in flywheel coding, the flywheel pattern must match the ECU.

tones - 25/11/11 at 06:20 PM

Many thanks Guys for the interesting replies
think it would be easier to get hold of a 1.6 ecu. Makes sense really,can see me having to pick the brains of you fella's on a regular basis.
In theory I should go for the
tweeked fuel reg
blue/grey injectors from a 75
1.6 ecu
52mm or 56mm tb??
Whats the best way to make it breathe? how will I know which flywheel to use.
Away off getting it running as yet but just taken the grinder to the block to get the starter to fit,cyl head off and ready for skimming.
Tones

britishtrident - 25/11/11 at 07:17 PM

The flywheel must be the one that matches the ECU unless you get the ECU doctored or the ecu introduced to the engine and security unit on diagnostic equipment.

If you use the 1.6 ECU use the injectors that came with the 1.6 engine.

A larger throttle-body won't give more power over a 48mm unit unless you do head or cam mods ---- you may see big claims for big power increases on some Rover forums but that only really applies to the 82ps engine fitted to some basic later model Rover 25s. The entry level Rover 25 had throttle butterfly opening angle restricted for insurance group reasons.

The 1.6 engine is a good engine but the 1.4 unit is an absolute gem in a light car.