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Power vs cost
carlknight1982 - 15/12/11 at 08:44 PM

Cheapest bang for buck car engine for a seven?

flibble - 15/12/11 at 08:46 PM

Saab 2.0 turbo, 260(ish) bhp for £150, Mine was a bit of a bargain though

Mark Allanson - 15/12/11 at 08:46 PM

Pinto, you get 115bhp for free

franky - 15/12/11 at 08:49 PM

£300 for a 328i engine/box/ecu 220ish bhp.
£1200 for a 321bhp m3 engine.

(N/A)

loggyboy - 15/12/11 at 08:59 PM

VX Redtop IMO, if i wasnt aiming for a New plate I would have one over my Zetec everyday of the week.
£200-300, bullet proof, tuneable, 150hp with standard injection and plenty of torques.

samjc - 15/12/11 at 08:59 PM

Duratec v6 around 240bhp (apparently) £170 deliverd to my door with extras loads on ebay

matty h - 15/12/11 at 09:02 PM

Will the v6 duratec fit in a seven.

whitestu - 15/12/11 at 09:20 PM

Zetec - mine was £65 for about 150 BHP, so less than 50p per BHP and bolts straight to a type 9.

Stu

coyoteboy - 15/12/11 at 09:36 PM

Audi 4.2 V8, 300 N/A hp £325. Though I'm not sure it'll fit.

Possibly a bit of a bargain when I got mine though!

PSpirine - 15/12/11 at 09:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Audi 4.2 V8, 300 N/A hp £325. Though I'm not sure it'll fit.

Possibly a bit of a bargain when I got mine though!



If you can put up with the size and can mate it to a gearbox, this is a good call, along with a Lexus V8 (which you can just about find pre-95 for emissions).

Both cars (Audi A8 and Lexus LS400) tend to go for around the 1k mark in a condition where the engine is spot on but the car has niggles.

So circa £300 for just the engine is about the right mark I reckon.


Both are good for around 300hp with minimal to no mods - just sort out a gearbox and ECU. I believe neither will run on standard ECU without the autobox.

rdodger - 15/12/11 at 10:00 PM

MX5. 1.8 is about 140bhp and fits the MX5 gearbox!

Add a supercharger or turbo and 250bhp is easily possible.

cliftyhanger - 15/12/11 at 10:17 PM

Maybe a better question is "how much by the time it has a gearbox and all ancillaries"
For much cheapness for the package the zetec/type9 is hard to beat. Vx stuff may take the title on the basis that (I believe) it is easier to use the ECU from the engine.
Stray from the well trodden path and there may be unwanted surprises

tomgregory2000 - 15/12/11 at 10:35 PM

Nissan 200sx either the ca18det or sr20det, both rearwheel drive so no getting a gearbox issue and with the turbo power it is very cheap power for your money, all you need on the sr20 to get 300bhp is a chip on the ecu, a better fuel pump, bigger injectors and a good intercooler, no internal mods or expensive throttle bodies etc etc

RK - 15/12/11 at 10:35 PM

I have been trying to state this for a while now. But for every deviation from the tried and true, you get an increase in cost OR engineering time. One or the other. You guys are lucky to have such choices, but even the Zetec can involve some bellhousing/fuel rail etc costs.

And Mr. Tomgregory, I think most people will find the SR20DET to be an expensive option, unless it comes in a donor you get for cheap. Engine and gearbox combos here (from Japan) are over $2000, much more if you want an S14 or 15.

[Edited on 15/12/11 by RK]

Rallye_Mark - 15/12/11 at 10:40 PM

Volvo 740 Turbo B230ET engine. I bought the whole car for £150 with manual gearbox. 182bhp standard and a whore of torque. Just fitted into my original small chassis

franky - 15/12/11 at 11:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
Maybe a better question is "how much by the time it has a gearbox and all ancillaries"
For much cheapness for the package the zetec/type9 is hard to beat. Vx stuff may take the title on the basis that (I believe) it is easier to use the ECU from the engine.
Stray from the well trodden path and there may be unwanted surprises


Thats why a bmw 328 engine/box/loom/ecu can't be beaten on price per BHP

Bare - 16/12/11 at 03:58 AM

Back when Lotus Sevens were 'Race' cars a Coventry Climax engine at what 75hp?? was the world class setup.
Lightness is KEY unless you are Aryton Sennas' faster brother, much more than 125/150 hp is only genuinely good for posing.
Not a lot of point of inserting the engine from the Titanic IF you want a light extremely good handling (read quicker) car.
Think on something that's ALL ali : Engine , Trans and Diff.
Hp is largely secondary.

nz_climber - 16/12/11 at 07:18 AM

All alloy is not always lighter, the SR20 all alloy engine is similar weight to 3sge (with cast block and alloy head)...

whitestu - 16/12/11 at 07:58 AM

quote:

Back when Lotus Sevens were 'Race' cars a Coventry Climax engine at what 75hp?? was the world class setup.
Lightness is KEY unless you are Aryton Sennas' faster brother, much more than 125/150 hp is only genuinely good for posing.
Not a lot of point of inserting the engine from the Titanic IF you want a light extremely good handling (read quicker) car.
Think on something that's ALL ali : Engine , Trans and Diff.
Hp is largely secondary.


Totally agree - this is why bike engines are so attractive.

Stu

hughpinder - 16/12/11 at 09:31 AM

I was paid £50 to get rid of a 1.1 metro for someone, which had a running engine, so about -£0.90/bhp.

More seriously - it depends on if you want your car for the road or track(may restrict choice), and your target bhp. As said by a few people, if you use the standard engine/manifolds etc thats the cheapest. As soon as you start to tune above 'standard' you start to escalate costs rapidly. If you want up to 160/180 bhp a zetec is good value - if you want 200 a duratec is probably cheaper, as (by reputation anyway) you dont need to upgrade the internals. If you want 240bhp then the saab/volvo/S2000 engine may be better value .......

Basically, decide how much power you want, if you want some spare tuning capacity above that, and if its a BEC or CEC, then ask the question again!

I would be quite interested to see a table of how much people have spent tuning their engines from standard(and what they did for the money of course), what power they finally got, and how long the engine lasted!

Regards
Hugh

jossey - 16/12/11 at 09:48 AM

328i

roadrunner - 16/12/11 at 10:11 AM

My ZX10r engine.
I have been told its pushing close to 200 bhp, which will give me 435bhp / ton.
And I got it for £350.

froggy - 16/12/11 at 02:09 PM

depending on power level the saab b204 takes some beating especially as the stock ecu is fully mappable with a bit of soldering and a can/usb connection

whitestu - 16/12/11 at 04:18 PM

quote:

depending on power level the saab b204 takes some beating especially as the stock ecu is fully mappable with a bit of soldering and a can/usb connection


That's interesting - is there anything to prevent using this ECU on other engines assuming they are easy enough to get hold of?

Stu

froggy - 16/12/11 at 04:40 PM

the issue is the coil pack as its a huge brick and wont come apart,ive tried it on a zetec head and its pretty close but no cigar .the rest is simple enough map/tps and a toothed wheel on the crank .can/usb can bne done a couple of ways and a simple mod in the ecu means you can use the later boost solenoid ehich is much cheaper and reliable . i ended up running 870cc injectors on my road car and got a mint idle and start up as the factory ecu has multiple maps for start and cold running

speedyxjs - 16/12/11 at 04:49 PM

Jag straight six's regularly go for well under £100 on ebay Easy 200hp plus

froggy - 16/12/11 at 07:57 PM

Finding a manual box and flywheel for a jag isn't so easy though .

coyoteboy - 19/12/11 at 07:47 PM

quote:

All alloy is not always lighter, the SR20 all alloy engine is similar weight to 3sge (with cast block and alloy head)...


Indeed, and with the transmission bolted up it seems it's not actually too far off the all alloy Audi V8. I spent a lot of time researching engine weights and for high power output there's not a lot in it, +-15-20kg among the 300hp easily available contenders. If you want serious power to weight for the engine alone then look down the bike engine route, but it's not cheap. I threw together a big spreadsheet of costs, powers and weights and ended up looking like there'd be about 100kg max to min going from a beasty V8 to a tiny 1 litre BEC, when you consider the required additional parts.