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Keep xflow or stick a zetec in ?
jonno - 6/1/12 at 05:59 PM

Just thinking out loud... general rambling

If you had a toy car with a 1700 xflow, Bcf2 cam, 40's etc rolling roaded at 113bhp at the flywheel, would you be temped to replace with a 1.8 zetec from a Escort (shorter sump and correct water pump ?) with about 115bhp ? or maybe a 2.0 zetec but would mean sourcing more parts ?

So.. too much hassle, not worth it (costs + time), enjoy the xflow or future proof it a bit ? or even sell and look for another car ?

Cheers

steve m - 6/1/12 at 06:17 PM

I personly, would keep the Xflow,

My reasons, vary from why change, to all the modifications to the body work, as the zetec is a lot taller
plus a new exhaust is needed, plus some way of fueling the engine, megaquirt etc etc
all of this will add £££

Just my opinion

Steve

plus i like my xflows!!

MakeEverything - 6/1/12 at 06:55 PM

If you're considering it, maybe you've answered your own question?

Is there such thing as hassle on kit cars? - I mean, they're supposed to have the bits changed are they not?

I would do it.

mark chandler - 6/1/12 at 07:04 PM

If you change it then same power more weight is not the way forward.

Duratec keeps exhaust on the same side so preferred, you really want lots more power to make it worth while IMHO.

designer - 6/1/12 at 07:07 PM

With those stats, I would keep the X-flow.

Alfa145 - 6/1/12 at 07:22 PM

I have an Xflow (101bhp at the wheels) and had the same discussion with myself a few months back. Decided to keep the Xflow as it's so simple to fix if it goes wrong, sounds great and pulls well.

If I had gone Zetec, I'd need new petrol tank, return fuel line putting in, new manifold, things moving under the bonnet, maybe bonnet mods, new engine mounts, and a few other bits.

So i decided to keep the Xflow until it goes pop and I can afford a nice expensive 200bhp Zetec.


quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
Duratec keeps exhaust on the same side so preferred, you really want lots more power to make it worth while IMHO.


Incorrect. Duratec exhaust is on the same side as a Pinto. Zetec is on the same side as the Xflow.

trialsman - 6/1/12 at 07:29 PM

Use the 2.0 ltr and ship the Xflow to ME. TeeHee!!!!!! Xflow's are great motors plus they sound right. Russ

David Jenkins - 6/1/12 at 07:50 PM

My philosophy is that I will keep my x-flow as long as it is working. If it stops working and repairs are likely to cost a significant amount of money then I'll upgrade to something more modern.

I like my x-flow!

daniel mason - 6/1/12 at 08:03 PM

i love the crossflow motoers. think they sound great and there is some decent tuning available

jonno - 6/1/12 at 08:04 PM

Kinda confirms what I was thinking.. i'll keep it as is might treat it to a megajolt thou

David Jenkins - 6/1/12 at 08:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jonno
Kinda confirms what I was thinking.. i'll keep it as is might treat it to a megajolt thou


Good move - it won't give any extra power (well, hardly any) but it will keep the ignition properly in tune, unlike contact breakers. It's also more reliable, and a great help when trying to start on icy cold mornings (it gives a big fat spark, even at minimum revs, and the timing advance can be reduced at start-up engine speed to reduce the load on the starter.)

rusty nuts - 6/1/12 at 08:12 PM

I like my 1640 ish Xflow with bcf 2 cam but running bike throttle bodies, made 127bhp at the flywheel albeit with a decent head . Built using parts from ebay amongst other places without spending a fortune

Alfa145 - 6/1/12 at 08:12 PM

If you do go Megajolt, I'd be interested in hearing what difference it makes and if it ups the performance. As I just have the standard coil/dizzy on mine.

[Edited on 6/1/12 by Alfa145]

MikeR - 6/1/12 at 08:21 PM

keep the xflow. If you want something to do fuel inject it. More bits will be reusable when you do upgrade to a zetec and you may find more power and defo more tractable engine.

rusty nuts - 6/1/12 at 08:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Alfa145
If you do go Megajolt, I'd be interested in hearing what difference it makes and if it ups the performance. As I just have the standard coil/dizzy on mine.

[Edited on 6/1/12 by Alfa145]



When I originally built my car it had clockwork ignition, converting it to electronic using a Valencia distributor and coil from a Fiesta made a huge difference

myke pocock - 6/1/12 at 08:56 PM

Na, keep it old school crossflow. Mines only 1300 but still fun. Will fit a DGAV and mild cam soon when the weather gets a bit warmer.

Andy S - 6/1/12 at 09:29 PM

To buck this x-flow male bonding cast iron dead weight hug fest - You would not regret dragging it out and binning it - (read selling it to some misty eyed sentimentalist ) for the Zetec - get on with it there is no way an X-flow can compete with the extra capacity and double the number of valves. Once done its then a piece of cake to upgrade.

The X-Flow cant hold a candle to the Zetec and there are plenty of cheap offers for near complete installations out there


Andrew

RoadkillUK - 6/1/12 at 09:36 PM

I'd sell it on ebay and fit a Zetec, we bought our zetec for £50 and sold the inlet stuff for I think about £30. Also the crossflow went for decent money too, went towards the bike carbs.

Ford 1600 Crossflow Engine | eBay sold on ebay for £205.

Just a thought

paulf - 6/1/12 at 09:52 PM

I had a cross flow and converted to mega jolt ignition and EFI and it went reasonably well but was well worn and needed rebuilding.I considered rebuilding it but it would have cost far more to rebuild than it cost to install an 1800 zetec using my existing ignition and injection system.An 1800 zetec on throttle body's and set up well will give about 150bhp not 115 and would be noticeably quicker.The biggest bug bear is the extra height but if you can accommodate this then it would be well worth while doing especially as you could sell the cross flow and cover most of the costs.
Paul

clairetoo - 6/1/12 at 09:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Andy S
To buck this x-flow male bonding cast iron dead weight hug fest - You would not regret dragging it out and binning it - (read selling it to some misty eyed sentimentalist ) for the Zetec - get on with it there is no way an X-flow can compete with the extra capacity and double the number of valves. Once done its then a piece of cake to upgrade.

The X-Flow cant hold a candle to the Zetec and there are plenty of cheap offers for near complete installations out there


Andrew

I disagree - my home-done , bike throttle-bodied 1700 made a solid 165BHP at a sweet 8000 RPM - at Loan a few years ago I blitzed a Dunnell Zetec powered Caterham up the hill by so much the guy demanded to know what was in my car............he nearly cried on seeing the crossflow in there........

I only changed it for the V6 when the twice yearly engine rebuilds got a bit much

Andy S - 6/1/12 at 10:07 PM

Not quite sure that example works but good try


quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
quote:
Originally posted by Andy S
To buck this x-flow male bonding cast iron dead weight hug fest - You would not regret dragging it out and binning it - (read selling it to some misty eyed sentimentalist ) for the Zetec - get on with it there is no way an X-flow can compete with the extra capacity and double the number of valves. Once done its then a piece of cake to upgrade.

The X-Flow cant hold a candle to the Zetec and there are plenty of cheap offers for near complete installations out there


Andrew

I disagree - my home-done , bike throttle-bodied 1700 made a solid 165BHP at a sweet 8000 RPM - at Loan a few years ago I blitzed a Dunnell Zetec powered Caterham up the hill by so much the guy demanded to know what was in my car............he nearly cried on seeing the crossflow in there........

I only changed it for the V6 when the twice yearly engine rebuilds got a bit much

paulf - 6/1/12 at 10:19 PM

I agree a fast cross flow would be nice but a 2 litre zetec would give the same sort of power although at less revs and although it wont sound as nice can be replaced for less than £100 IF it wears out instead of once a year at £1000 plus for the cross flow rebuild.
Paul

quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
quote:
Originally posted by Andy S
To buck this x-flow male bonding cast iron dead weight hug fest - You would not regret dragging it out and binning it - (read selling it to some misty eyed sentimentalist ) for the Zetec - get on with it there is no way an X-flow can compete with the extra capacity and double the number of valves. Once done its then a piece of cake to upgrade.

The X-Flow cant hold a candle to the Zetec and there are plenty of cheap offers for near complete installations out there


Andrew

I disagree - my home-done , bike throttle-bodied 1700 made a solid 165BHP at a sweet 8000 RPM - at Loan a few years ago I blitzed a Dunnell Zetec powered Caterham up the hill by so much the guy demanded to know what was in my car............he nearly cried on seeing the crossflow in there........

I only changed it for the V6 when the twice yearly engine rebuilds got a bit much


[Edited on 6/1/12 by paulf]

norfolkluego - 6/1/12 at 10:34 PM

Having done the X-Flow to Zetec swop myself, I'd have to say the two engines are not even comparable, the Zetec is better in every respect.

No disrespect to anyone but claims for big power out of a X-Flow are usually just that, claims. Not have a pop at you Paulf, I'm sure that you and plenty of guys on here can wring every last horse power out of an X-Flow but a Zetec is the simpler and cheaper way to go for most of us for that kind of power.

Take a bog standard Zetec, put on a good inlet and exhaust manifold, bike carbs and MJ and you have an engine that it would be very expensive for a X-Flow to match.

Of course you can get good power out of a X-Flow, but not cheaply.

The crossflow has it's fans and good luck to them (I enjoyed mine), each to his own, that's the joy of kits, there is no right way to do it, but the Zetec is the better engine (and cheaper).

[Edited on 6/1/12 by norfolkluego]

snapper - 6/1/12 at 11:05 PM

BHP sells engines
Torque wins races
What's the torque difference?

I've got a 130bhp Desiel as a road car but it's the torque that makes it different to a 130bhp petrol

norfolkluego - 7/1/12 at 01:57 AM

quote:
Originally posted by snapper
BHP sells engines
Torque wins races
What's the torque difference?

I've got a 130bhp Desiel as a road car but it's the torque that makes it different to a 130bhp petrol


Depends on the circuit I would have thought, whether torque or bhp was your weapon of choice

RK - 7/1/12 at 02:36 AM

Interesting dilemma. I kind of like your present setup, but then, I've never had an English engine for long enough to know how much it leaks and needs fiddling. I also understand your desire to twiddle with your car during winter. I don't have an answer, but I think your course of action will be dictated by how much money you really want to spend, one ten pound note at a time, of course, just like everyone on here.

paulf - 7/1/12 at 09:00 PM

I am running a zetec and am in agreement about the X-flow, I only ran a GT spec X- flow with EFI for a while and changed to a Zetec when it needed a rebuild as I could not justify the cost of rebuilding a X-flow when Zetecs are so cheap and give good power.
Paul

quote:
Originally posted by norfolkluego

No disrespect to anyone but claims for big power out of a X-Flow are usually just that, claims. Not have a pop at you Paulf, I'm sure that you and plenty of guys on here can wring every last horse power out of an X-Flow but a Zetec is the simpler and cheaper way to go for most of us for that kind of power.

Take a bog standard Zetec, put on a good inlet and exhaust manifold, bike carbs and MJ and you have an engine that it would be very expensive for a X-Flow to match.


[Edited on 6/1/12 by norfolkluego]

gazza285 - 8/1/12 at 03:33 AM

quote:
Originally posted by norfolkluego


No disrespect to anyone but claims for big power out of a X-Flow are usually just that, claims. Not have a pop at you Paulf, I'm sure that you and plenty of guys on here can wring every last horse power out of an X-Flow but a Zetec is the simpler and cheaper way to go for most of us for that kind of power.

Take a bog standard Zetec, put on a good inlet and exhaust manifold, bike carbs and MJ and you have an engine that it would be very expensive for a X-Flow to match.

Of course you can get good power out of a X-Flow, but not cheaply.

The crossflow has it's fans and good luck to them (I enjoyed mine), each to his own, that's the joy of kits, there is no right way to do it, but the Zetec is the better engine (and cheaper).

[Edited on 6/1/12 by norfolkluego]



Could the same be said for a bike engine compared to a Zetec though? And much lighter.

I loved my Crossflowed MK1 Escort though, 1300 dry sump, full steel engine on 45s and a Holbay K3A cam, fun to 8,500rpm. It had a seat in it and that was about it. (Getting misty eyed now, best have a look on eBay for a reality check).

rusty nuts - 8/1/12 at 09:44 AM

Another way of looking at it is does the crossflow need replacing ? If it doesn't at the moment then start sourcing the parts for the conversion to Zetec for when it does or at least price up for doing either. Unless of course you want to change it and just need an excuse? One day I will probably change from crossflow ??

norfolkluego - 8/1/12 at 10:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by gazza285
quote:
Originally posted by norfolkluego


No disrespect to anyone but claims for big power out of a X-Flow are usually just that, claims. Not have a pop at you Paulf, I'm sure that you and plenty of guys on here can wring every last horse power out of an X-Flow but a Zetec is the simpler and cheaper way to go for most of us for that kind of power.

Take a bog standard Zetec, put on a good inlet and exhaust manifold, bike carbs and MJ and you have an engine that it would be very expensive for a X-Flow to match.

Of course you can get good power out of a X-Flow, but not cheaply.

The crossflow has it's fans and good luck to them (I enjoyed mine), each to his own, that's the joy of kits, there is no right way to do it, but the Zetec is the better engine (and cheaper).

[Edited on 6/1/12 by norfolkluego]



Could the same be said for a bike engine compared to a Zetec though? And much lighter.



Not quite, a good Zetec can be picked up for as little as £50 (that's what mine cost). Could a decent bike engine be bought for that little.

jonno - 13/1/12 at 11:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
Another way of looking at it is does the crossflow need replacing ? If it doesn't at the moment then start sourcing the parts for the conversion to Zetec for when it does or at least price up for doing either. Unless of course you want to change it and just need an excuse? One day I will probably change from crossflow ??


Thanks for your inputs but really think this is the one for me, keep the xflow and enjoy the summer and think about slowly collecting bit (apart from megajolt parts)

Already got the megajolt, edis, coils pack + leads and the trigger wheel is in the post just a tps and crank sensor to go !!

MikeRJ - 14/1/12 at 03:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by snapper
BHP sells engines
Torque wins races


That old chestnut is as wrong now as it was when it was first uttered.

quote:
Originally posted by Andy S
To buck this x-flow male bonding cast iron dead weight hug fest


The crossflow is pretty light, certainly no heavier than the Zetec. It's also a nice compact, short engine and retrofitting a modern(ish) DOHC in it's place can give a load of grief trying to get clearance.

If you are going to go to all the trouble of fitting a new engine, I'd definitely want a bigger improvement in performance than you'd get going from a tuned crossflow to a standard Zetec.

[Edited on 14/1/12 by MikeRJ]

Paul Turner - 14/1/12 at 04:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by snapper
BHP sells engines
Torque wins races


That old chestnut is as wrong now as it was when it was first uttered.


It certainly is not. Engines produce torque which a dynamometer meaures. Then by some cunning mathematics this is converted to horespower (BHP as we know it) for 2 simple reasons, no one understands torque and everbody understands horsepower.

I was a x-flow die hard for many years, 1988 to 2002 to be precise. My best motor was an 1860 long stroke version that I built using parts and favours over a couple of years. At the time people were paying £6000 plus for similar motors, mine cost about £2,000. It peaked at an approx corrected 175 bhp at 7400 rpm, the torque was 130 lbs/ft at 6000 rpm. The engine embarassed many more powerful BDA's, BDG's and later 16 valve Vauxhalls on the hills simply because of the way it delivered its power smoothly over a wide rev band. The oposition may have had more power, up to 260 bhp in some cases but they did not have the torque to pull them out of the corners that I did.

In 2002 I decided to move on and fitted a Zetec. Standard 2 litre from a burn out, fitted a set of ARP bolts and a pair of Kent FZ2002 cams and new followers. On the same rollers it peaked at 178 bhp at 7200 rpm with 150 lbs/ft of torque at 5300 rpm. With little more power and a bit of extra weight I was able to beat my best cross flow times but not by much, again it was down to the torque available out of the corners. People who had spent £1000s must have been sick to see a £150 motor plus a few bolt on bits beating their mega expensive engines.

Those peple had bought their engines purely because of the high power figures quoted, I was able to beat them with 80 bhp less and a good spread of torque.

I still love the old x-flow but times have moved on and I think the Zetec is an absolute cracker but don't expect a swap to be cheap.

Ciprian - 15/1/12 at 06:49 PM

similar dilemma here but for next winter, at the moment just gearing up for it. decision is kind already made for me as i'm going to get a zetec. would be interesting if somebody can write a guid with all whats needed for the conversion...

Ciprian - 21/1/12 at 08:33 AM

just to say that i found a guide here : http://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/51520-xflow-to-zetec/