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Pinto Cooling
davidimurray - 8/1/12 at 09:25 PM

Now the car is up and running I've been having a play and I'm not particulalry happy with my cooling system at the moment. I have a temp sensor in the head. While idling the engine gets up to around 103C without the fan kicking in - even though the fan switch is (from memory) is 88/79C. I'm thinking that there is some form of 'lock' being setup that is preventing water getting to the thermostat.

The setup I have is -

Rad lower to water pump
Rad Upper to thermostat
Water pump small to bottom of header tank
Inlet Manifold to top of header tank
Small thermostat port blanked off.

The obvious way to test the theory would be to remove the thermostat. But i'm wondering if I should connect the small connection on the thermostat housing to the connection I have in the top hose?

Cheers

Dave

Description
Description

Stott - 8/1/12 at 10:22 PM

I think mine from memory goes from pump small connection to the inlet manifold via the heater, this is what flows thecoolant in the head properly, that's why your head temp sensor is reading high, it's genuinely too hot.

Feel free to pop and look at mine, obviously depending on where in S Wales you live

Cheers
Stott

jollygreengiant - 8/1/12 at 11:10 PM

I tried it like you have posted and it gave me problems so this is what I ended up with

Rad lower to water pump - YES
Rad Upper to thermostat - YES
Water pump small to ( bottom of header tank - NO ) Goes to small on inlet manifold.
Inlet Manifold to ( top of header tank - NO ) Goes to small water pump.
Small thermostat port ( blanked off. - NO ) bleed pipe from top hose goes to top header tank/bottle collecting Via a 'T' piece the bleed off the top of the thermostat return to top of header tank/bottle.
Bottom of header tank/bottle should go to a 'T' piece cut/spliced into bottom hose.

Also, IF you have a bleed pipe on the top of the radiator, then this should be 'T'ed into the bleed pipe off the top of the thermostat.

[Edited on 8/1/12 by jollygreengiant]

Andy S - 8/1/12 at 11:20 PM

Are you sure the gauge is accurate?

As for connections - the small commection from the stat should go to the top of the header for an air bleed

The manifold connection ( if no heater) should go back to the water pump small connection through with a 6 mm restrictor

The header tank main connection should tee into the large water pump connection - the lowest part of the header should be at the same height of the top level of the thermostat.


ETA - beaten to it

Andrew

[Edited on 8/1/12 by Andy S]

Uphill Racer - 8/1/12 at 11:58 PM

The 'lock' is because you have blanked the small hose out of the head. Reconnect it, it needs to rise all the way to the header tank so it can expel air. Take a good look at your cooling system, air don't like going down hill so it needs an uphill escape route.

Dusty - 9/1/12 at 12:19 AM

Might just be you have put the thermostat in backwards. The innards of it go into the block, not the stat housing. Also possible the stat might have failed closed or only be slightly opening.

James - 9/1/12 at 01:31 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Uphill Racer
The 'lock' is because you have blanked the small hose out of the head. Reconnect it, it needs to rise all the way to the header tank so it can expel air. Take a good look at your cooling system, air don't like going down hill so it needs an uphill escape route.


Not arguing with this as I have a Pinto myself that never seemed quite right regards cooling and I had mine set up as per the OP.
What I don't understand is that the small thermostat pipe was already blanked by Ford on my EFI Pinto. It had a rubber bung thing jubilee clipped over it. I copied this setup for mine.

If this pipe should go somewhere, why did Ford block it?

Not trying to be awkward, I've been genuinely curious about this for about 5 years!


Is it just for one-off bleeding when filling the system maybe?


Cheers,
James

snapper - 9/1/12 at 06:24 AM

Most important change for you is to connect the manifold 16mm pipe to the water pump.
The small pipe off the thermostat housing was for Fords different solutions over the years, some had expansion tanks some pressurised water with header tank.
Pays your money etc.
What is also worth fitting is the 82degree thermostat from Burton performance.
I chased over heating problems for years ended up fitting a huge radiator which helped but the lower opening thermostat made the biggest difference overall.

Stott - 9/1/12 at 06:36 AM

+1

Like I said right at the top, the coolant in the head is largely static so it's genuinely too hot. Move the pipe and the coolant will flow. I doubt there's any airlock.

britishtrident - 9/1/12 at 08:48 AM

Drill a couple of small holes in the thermostat valve plate this will allow hot coolant to circulate more quickly around the thermostat bulb.

jollygreengiant - 9/1/12 at 09:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by James
quote:
Originally posted by Uphill Racer
The 'lock' is because you have blanked the small hose out of the head. Reconnect it, it needs to rise all the way to the header tank so it can expel air. Take a good look at your cooling system, air don't like going down hill so it needs an uphill escape route.


Not arguing with this as I have a Pinto myself that never seemed quite right regards cooling and I had mine set up as per the OP.
What I don't understand is that the small thermostat pipe was already blanked by Ford on my EFI Pinto. It had a rubber bung thing jubilee clipped over it. I copied this setup for mine.

If this pipe should go somewhere, why did Ford block it?

Not trying to be awkward, I've been genuinely curious about this for about 5 years!


Is it just for one-off bleeding when filling the system maybe?


Cheers,
James


On the Ford Granada 2.0i (pinto) the top hose had a bleed off hose that went to the header tank, and, as you say the bleed on the top of the the thermostat was also there but blanked with a rubber cover with a jubilee clip. The bulk of the air bleed off was catered for by the top hose air bleed, but the thermostat one was still there for first fill bleeding if needed.

As I said in my first reply to this post, I originaly set up my cooling with the header tank 'T'ed into the manifold to water pump bypass, but this gave me airlock problems with only the top hose air bleed back to the header tank. As soon as I re-jigged the cooling system so that the inlet manifold was connected direct to the water pump (only), the header tank bottom outlet was 'T'ed into the bottom hose and the polo rad top air bleed was run to the top hose bleed and then to the thermostat bleed (all connected into one hose by 'T' pieces), then it was a doddle to fill the system and I have not had any problems with over-heating or air-locks since. The header tank I used was one off of a Rover 214 (it comes with its own mounting bracket when obtained from a car breakers and just uses the standard rover 214 pressure cap.

Bleed hoses and bleed pipes/take offs are there for a reason. As said by another poster in this thread air does not run down hill through water and also water does not float on air, this is a lesson that the Rover engineers could well have done with learning when they designed the cooling system on the 214.

davidimurray - 9/1/12 at 09:55 PM

Thanks for all the advice.

I have been having a look at the car and can see a way to replumb it as suggested.

However I also made the mistake of thinking! Am i right in thinking that the pinto pumps out of the block. In this case in my setup it would be pumping water into the bottom of the header tank and then with the connection at the top being connected to the manifold - then it is effectively as suggested with a bit of a buffer tank in between! Of course if the water is being pumped into the header tank this could mean that you are pushing air into the block, but surely this is just the same as connecting into the bottom rad hose ?

Having a search around the net for cooling systems I came across this -

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=124033

The setup on the bruise is basically the same setup as mine - except for the connection to the thermostat and rad. I also cannot see if a manifold hose is fitted.

Sorry for all the questions - i'm just trying to make some sense of how this all works.

Cheers

Dave

britishtrident - 9/1/12 at 10:46 PM

Water pumps pump out of the bottom of the rad (and by-pass) into the the block.

It then travels through and around the block and up to the head.

When the thermostat is closed it goes out via the by-pass connections,

When the thermostat is open 95% of the flow goes into the top of the rad.

[Edited on 9/1/12 by britishtrident]

jollygreengiant - 10/1/12 at 09:33 AM


shows header tank with bottom feed down to bottom hose and bleed hose collection above thermostat.

and another view

this shows bottom hose with 'T' piece connector that the header tank fits into. And around the back of the block you can just seee the hose coming around from the inlet manifold outlet.