Just arrived home in my first Kit car ,, Orange MK R1 Advertised on here.
Problem is the gear change is too clunky, not just into first but all the gears up and down again. Aslo i have noticed it wont always move up the
gears with out pressing the clutch.
It realy is a horrible heavey clunk, i called MK who said it sounds like the diff needs fettling, they can do it for a couple hundred quid. Also
called AB motorsport who said i needed one of his fancy rubberiesd propshafts.
It does sound like its comming from the Diff, not sure what to do first, maybe take of the diff myself and get it checked localy as i dont fancy i
ride to MK in the state its in,,
Any ideas whould be appreciated
No offence but if you're new to driving BECs, they can be a bit clunky through the gears if not driven correctly. It could also be a fault with
some part of the drivetrain but it's difficult to know without listening to it or driving it. Why not try and find someone local to you who also
has a BEC and take a passenger ride in each others cars to compare the experience.
Phil
its hard to diagnose without seeing the car and experiencing, in my experience of r1s they take a few revs and a wee blip for the first three gears
going up... its hard to do clutchless ups smoothly when youre not gunning it, if i were you id use the clutch for all changes till you get to know the
engine.
try using about 7k revs, clutch and just a quick blip and you should find it much smoother.
where are you based?
[Edited on 29/3/12 by A1]
Iv been out in this car [ not driven by its last owner ] and it was just like any other bike engine car i have been in clunky into first then ok it
has / had paddle gear change so dose it need adjusting ?
Jacko
Perhaps somebody near you with a bec can have a sit in it and have a listen ?
*Might* just be that your not used to it and comparing it to a normal road car
gear selection ?
As it's your first kit, I assume it's the first time you've driven a BEC. It'll take a while untill you get the timing right, with
the speed of the shift and unloading the transmission, on the changes and untill then it'll feel clunky. Clutchless up-shifts are easier when
driving hard: Getting them right on light load can be tricky and often people don't try. Give it a chance and you'll soon get it.
If you add your rough location to your profile it'll help find local advice.
If there's no TRT or cush in the propshaft line, then it'll 'clunk' a tad. If there's a reverse geabox in the driveline (i.e
Westfield Tunnel Lubricator), then it'll clunk even more. Add all this together with a worn diff and some backlash, and you're in a whole
world of clunk.
If that's not enough, when the various flanges work loose, you'll get a nice rattle and grate to go with it. If you've got a centre
bearing that's not happy, then it'll vibrate nicely too.
Whines (apart from those eminating from the wife), will be hard to locate. A diff. while will resonate nicely up the propshaft, it's like a
wheelbearing, hard to find the source of the noise.
Most noises can be eliminated simply by using the engine like you would on a bike. R1's don't have much torque, so just keep it all above
10K and all will be well. Rattles and whines will simply disappear.
I *have* a wrecked R1 gearbox, sitting here next to me. I can assure you that any fault with the gearbox/engine won't linger, it normally
destroys the engine fairly quickly. I've just bought the two layshafts/gears/drum that were on Ebay until about an hour ago, hoping they're
OK....
If you're around Link Onshire then I'm happy to check your car out in the sunshine, all for a beer.
put the clunky gearbox to one side for a minute ...how you getting on with a BEC?
Funny I've just registered to see what advice there was on clunky Megablade boxes! Mine clunks 1st and 2nd mostly, I have Westy reverse too which
whines and grumbles, the clunks do my head in, but as an ex biker I knew about them, if someone said give us ex-amount and it'll be silky smooth,
I'd pay it, but no-one seems to offer one solution as has been explained already. Ask any biker especially a Honda enthusiast and they will tell
you to accept and get on with it.
Mines done 13k in the car so maybe 20k of hard miles, I'd imagine wear and tear to happen.
I'm getting a lot better with my changes and sometimes they're seamless, but 1st pull away is always a bit shakey, I'm thinking do I
just enjoy it till it blows up? Try a new clutch, look for a younger lump? None of these may get things silky anyway? It just annoys when you have a
few slick changes and then CLUNK again....
I would stick with for a while though Bud before you let it annoy you too much, once mines singing you just hold on tight and grin!
Smigga
Btw if your near the NW I'm happy to meet up and compare....
Thanks for all the speedy replies
I am based in Warrington nr liverpool. I understand its a Bec and there a bit raw, but the clunking was the same when the Seller was driving, i was
expecting it to clunk in to 1st but was surprised at how heavey it was,, then it did it in all the gears up and down.
Thers no reverse on this one
Fancy a swap dave?
Hey,hey I was blasting down the A57 about 2 hours ago! Well meet up if you like, but NO I dont want to swap, mines special lol!
I'm just up the road m8, I'm having an op on my shoulder in the morning, pm us your mob if you like an ill text you soon as I'm fit
I'll take you for a blast, you know the guys at MB Tech atall? They are pretty poo hot with anything fast, they used to look after my M3,
I'm sure the owner had an MK Busa, he'd have a look for sure, gona ask them for a price on an uprated clutch on mine...
Dave
Is it black and orange by any chance?
Dave
Yes Dave,, Dont tell me all the orange ones do it
Smigga, just sent u2u
You guessed it! Thought that was not road registered just for track? If its the local car I saw. Couple of weeks back, low miles £6kish?
Dave
Its an easy fix.......
ear plugs and a helmet mines got the right backlash in the diff a good gearbox a trt propshaft from bailey morris and it still does it. i think
on a bike the sound is the same but is absorbed thru the chain and much softer cush drive and is not amplified thru the transmission tunnel which is 2
inches from your butt
quote:
Originally posted by afj
Its an easy fix.......
ear plugs and a helmet
Errrr.... no, having a chain isn't any 'better' as regards the noise. The chains flap around, there is no cush in the drive, again
it's a whole world of mechanical noise.
Difference with a Westerlomkcaterfield is that noise is distributed over the whole car, the only time my front engined bricks were unacceptably rowdy
was with the bonnet off.
My current Midi is in a different league, the induction is only inches away from my bleeding ears. Ouuuchh...
Anyway, if all the BEC thing gets too much, there's probably a nice Megane down the dealers for a PX.
quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem[/
Anyway, if all the BEC thing gets too much, there's probably a nice Megane down the dealers for a PX.
quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Errrr.... no, having a chain isn't any 'better' as regards the noise. The chains flap around, there is no cush in the drive,
Well before i spend any money on it , i am going to drive it up to MK tomorrow morning and get them to have a look,
If it turns out that that its down to earplugs and helemt, it will be up for sale again.. Although i would be totally amazed this is how it should be
quote:
Originally posted by jakeob
Well before i spend any money on it , i am going to drive it up to MK tomorrow morning and get them to have a look,
If it turns out that that its down to earplugs and helemt, it will be up for sale again.. Although i would be totally amazed this is how it should be
If it really is an issue and that bad, a TRT (Torque Resilient Tube) propshaft will reduce the clunking massively and the more you drive it, the
better you'll understand it and be able to prevent it. Unfortunately, it will never disappear totally due to the nature of straight cut
gearboxes.
Give it time and you will be able to live with it..........
Phil
If i end up buying a TRT any ideas whos a good supplier? Ab motors quoted me £380+vat is that about right?
Have you any photos of said car ? please
Jacko
quote:.
Originally posted by jakeob
If i end up buying a TRT any ideas whos a good supplier? Ab motors quoted me £380+vat is that about right?
yes Jacko,
There in the photos of the last owner (martynrich67 )
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Errrr.... no, having a chain isn't any 'better' as regards the noise. The chains flap around, there is no cush in the drive,
Errrr.... yes there is a cush drive on nearly every bike I've ever seen, it's between the rear sprocket and the rear wheel.
Cheers
Davie
quote:
Originally posted by jakeob
yes Jacko,
There in the photos of the last owner (martynrich67 )
Errr.... Sorry I wasn't too clear, but just to put some detail on it, there is no rubber cush on the chain drive (well, a simple drive at least).
Bikes do, but not in the car application.
My car has the chain wrapped around a 48T sprocket bolted straight to a Fiesta plate differential, there's nothing in the transmission line (bar
a few tripode joints). Every gearchange goes straight through the chain, which really lets you know about it.
My comment was just that all BECs that I've built/raced with many engines and configs aren't entirely noise free! I was simply encouraging
the newbie owner to use the pedal on the right to smooth it all out a bit.
Good to see you at MK this morning Jakeob. Hope they managed to sort the problem and you got home safe.
Kev
[Edited on 31/3/12 by koiking125]
[Edited on 31/3/12 by koiking125]
Alright Kev,
Just got home ,, but on the train
(
After servicing the Diff turns out its not that, At least i know its not me and theres a definate loud clunk that should not be there bec or not
There gona try a different prop on Monday ,, then if not that must be the box(((
Oh, that's not good mate, let's hope it's not the box. Do you live far from MK? Hope they get it sorted for you quickly.
Kev
Thought i would give an update on my repairs so far.
Took the car to MK who did a road test and confirmed there was a problem"Terrible LOud Clunky noise" not normal at all.
Ok they took off the Diff , opened it found it to be in rarther good condition, made some slight adjustmets and refited to the car, This made NO
difference to the fault.
Then they swapped the Diff with one they had lying about also siad they had replaced the propshaft centre mount /bush.
Called me on the phone said the cars sorted,,,, I picked the car up today and guess what still the same.!!!
So Now i know there is a fault, the Clunking is not the norm for a BEC ,,, but dont know what to do....
I am thinking about sending the Bl@@@dy thing to AB performance to see if they can sort it.
Any advice would be welcome
Start with the gearbox output shaft to propshaft adapter, known to work loose.
Then take a look at the clutch, with there being no cush drive, it can accelerate bearing wear and wear in the cutch drum, look for grooves where the
plates sit in the outer drum, which cause back and forth movement in the clutch an clunks as drive is taken up.
Sounds normal...
It's an aquired skill that can only be achieved by practice, which means driving as much as possible,.
It reminds me of golf...one day you can play perfect, the next day crap, it needs practice, practice, practice.
If you don't get any better at it...sell it
Next step, try mine, DON'T spend any more money, then a good mechanic that's good with bikes AND cars, if its just not for you...THEN
Pistonheads....
Dave
If it was down to my driving and lack of practice,, i would have expected the lads at MK have told me that,
As i have said they Danny And Gaz both confirmed its not a normal noise, and there is a fault. Problem is they cant find it
I had a look round your car when I was collecting my diffuser, a real great car you have bought there (apart from the clucking that is), top spec,
hope you get it sorted
quote:
Originally posted by r1_pete
Start with the gearbox output shaft to propshaft adapter, known to work loose.
Then take a look at the clutch, with there being no cush drive, it can accelerate bearing wear and wear in the cutch drum, look for grooves where the plates sit in the outer drum, which cause back and forth movement in the clutch an clunks as drive is taken up.
Dave ,,
Just say the word mate and we can meet up
Cheers
Jokeob, put your location in your profile, there might be more people than you think locally that could take a look.
Kev.
My clutch seems to clear better sometimes better than others, wouldn't mind getting it replaced but when I get the revs right it's seamless,
out with the kids tomorrow aim to be back for 5 could meet opposite Memphis Belle bout 6 on the little carpark? I'll text you around 5 anyway,
weather permitting...
Dave
send it to andy he will sort it for u
Have you confirmed it is fitted with a TRT prop. When my prop was made they didnt use TRT tube even though I specced it. It was off and replaced after
about 500 miles. Was bloody horrible.
When friends drive my car I notice the clunking as they are not used to the light clutch,paddle shift,dog box etc.
Been in the OPs car today, really nice car and goes well, BUT big clunk under our elbows, feels like something lose around the prop/diff area on gear
takeup, not his driving...An expert ear required...
Dave
quote:
Originally posted by jakeob
quote:
Originally posted by r1_pete
Start with the gearbox output shaft to propshaft adapter, known to work loose.
Then take a look at the clutch, with there being no cush drive, it can accelerate bearing wear and wear in the cutch drum, look for grooves where the plates sit in the outer drum, which cause back and forth movement in the clutch an clunks as drive is taken up.
That sounds like a good move,, the output shaft can that be checked on the outside, hmmm might strip the clutch this weekend too
Thanks
Well decided to have a look at the clutch
Drained the oil and removed the clutch case, and plates, its had a Barnett clutch fitted and all the clutch plates look like new.
I have noticed if i hold the clutch basket and pull backwards and and forwards the basket and the cog move about 2-3mm.
Also if i try to rotate the basket back and forth it moves maybe 4-6mm while the rear cog stays still.
Wondering if this is normal
The lads at MK confirmed its got a TRT prop,, but do wonder if it failed in some way
"Also if i try to rotate the basket back and forth it moves maybe 4-6mm while the rear cog stays still. "
I'm not familiar with the R1 clutch, but this souns very much like I was describing.
Can you post a pic?
Yes just took some pics
need to see how to post them
i think this is it http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x360/370nel/R1%20clutch/IMG_0810.jpg
Looks very similar
blade clutch
If it is then as yu can see when you pull the basket there is a shock absornber in it so some movement is normal.
Double check though as per my pic that the splined centre of the drum casting is (very) tight