Board logo

Wanted Longer 1st Gear Type 9
silky16v - 23/8/12 at 11:29 AM

where can i get a longer 1st rear ratio for my Type 9 gearbox?

or do i have to buy a full gearkit?

i have someone locally who will assemble the gearbox for me

rash12 - 23/8/12 at 11:37 AM

i believe the diesel sierra type nine has a longer fist gear

silky16v - 23/8/12 at 12:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rash12
i believe the diesel sierra type nine has a longer fist gear


i'm looking for an off the shelf item as finding a diesel type 9 won't be easy

cliftyhanger - 23/8/12 at 12:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rash12
i believe the diesel sierra type nine has a longer fist gear


I thought it had a very short first??

The capri 2.8 or XR4i box is what you want, but I think it is a complete gearset.
Alternatively BGH do a long first setup http://bghgeartech.co.uk/html/gear_kits.html

snapper - 23/8/12 at 01:42 PM

P100/Desiel box has 3.9 1st
Standard Type 9 has 3.6
V6 Type 9 has 3.3 and a longer input shaft
Burtons do a 2.98 main shaft first gear and used layshaft £280
I think 1st should be 2.7 to 2.5 with a 3.9 diff

mcerd1 - 23/8/12 at 03:31 PM

^^ the advantage of the BGH kit is that for a few ££ extra you can significantly boost the strength of the box too

I was going to use a HD long 1st gearset for mine, but someone I know had an unused BGH 'E8' box (the top spec one) gathering dust

silky16v - 23/8/12 at 03:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
^^ the advantage of the BGH kit is that for a few ££ extra you can significantly boost the strength of the box too

I was going to use a HD long 1st gearset for mine, but someone I know had an unused BGH 'E8' box (the top spec one) gathering dust


keeping my eye on 1 of those, but until 1 appears i just want the longer 1st gear, as it is beyond useless ATM

Soot1e - 23/8/12 at 04:16 PM

If you buy the Capri 2.8 box the chances are the input shaftwill be too long, it can be shortened very carefully with a grinder. BGH and First Motion can supply the gear kits you need plus any other parts to rebuild.

beaver34 - 23/8/12 at 07:44 PM

bottom of this page

http://www.spcomponents.co.uk/gpage3.html

Xtreme Kermit - 23/8/12 at 08:59 PM

Just got a long first box in mine. It makes a big difference. Well worthwhile.

loggyboy - 24/8/12 at 07:12 AM

Out of interest, what ratios do you have now? also what diff?

silky16v - 24/8/12 at 11:55 AM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Out of interest, what ratios do you have now? also what diff?


standard 2.0 type 9 with 3.92 LSD diff

Engine is ST170 on TB's

first gear is useless and if you rev it right out in 1st you can't select 2nd quick enough, if you short shift though its fine

Soot1e - 24/8/12 at 11:59 AM

Before I changed to a long BGH 1st. Type 9 i didn't bother with 1st gear, always started in 2nd. gear.

loggyboy - 24/8/12 at 12:24 PM

the info I have is this, anyone who knows more/better please feel free to correct me:
standard ratios are
(1st to 5th)
3.36 1.81 1.26 1 0.82

some qoute even higher ratio lower gears
3.65 1.97 1.37 1 0.82


ALl the BGH ones seem to have a less than 3 1st, meaning this would make it worse
Ie
2.98 1.97 1.37 1 0.82

Running the first set of standard figures on 195 50 15s and 3.92 diff at 7k the standard ratios give (theortically) MPH

34 64 92 115 141

but the road BGH kit would give

39 59 84 115 141

if you can get the 2nd set of standard ratios its even better:

32 59 84 115 141


So if im reading it right (that you are changing from first and finding that 2nd is to similar, and you may as well go straight to 3rd?) it would seem if you want a bigger gap between 1st and 2nd so you can acctually use you want a SHORTER 1st? and then maybe a lower diff ratio to equal it out?


[Edited on 24-8-12 by loggyboy]

MikeRJ - 24/8/12 at 12:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy

So if im reading it right (that you are changing from first and finding that 2nd is to similar,


You're not reading it right The issue with the standard Type 9 is that 1st gear is far too low for a lightweight kit, and then there is a big gap to second. This makes 1st almost useless, which is what the BGH gearboxes fix.

GeoffT - 24/8/12 at 01:13 PM

Loggyboy, the problem is that you're reading a higher number as a higher gear ratio, rather than lower.

Remember that when you quote a ratio as 3.36:1 the first number (3.36) is the input speed, the second number (1) is the output speed, so the lower the first number is, then the relatively higher the second number (i.e. the output speed) becomes....

loggyboy - 24/8/12 at 01:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy

So if im reading it right (that you are changing from first and finding that 2nd is to similar,


You're not reading it right The issue with the standard Type 9 is that 1st gear is far too low for a lightweight kit, and then there is a big gap to second. This makes 1st almost useless, which is what the BGH gearboxes fix.


So why does the OP mention short shitfting? Surely that would make it worse?

silky16v - 24/8/12 at 03:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy

So if im reading it right (that you are changing from first and finding that 2nd is to similar,


You're not reading it right The issue with the standard Type 9 is that 1st gear is far too low for a lightweight kit, and then there is a big gap to second. This makes 1st almost useless, which is what the BGH gearboxes fix.


So why does the OP mention short shitfting? Surely that would make it worse?


because short shifting at 4000-4500rpm from 1st to 2nd actually allowing me to do a faster standing start than trying to rev it out in 1st then changing to 2nd as its a longer gear

most time i just use 1st to get the car rolling and then change to 2nd and then floor it

[Edited on 24/8/12 by silky16v]

mcerd1 - 24/8/12 at 03:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
So why does the OP mention short shitfting? Surely that would make it worse?
silky16v, I'm not quite sure what you achive by missing out second either..... ?

it sounds like your tring to hold onto first for too long when you should be in 2nd

but maybe you should forget 1st gear all together and start in second
(untill you get the ratio's sorted that is )




I remember a RV8 powered car with an R380 box with all the wrong ratio's, 1st was only used as a crawler gear and 5th was basically only for cruising - so for most of the driving it effectivly had a 3 speed box (luckly the V8 has the torque throught the rev range to partly make up for it though...)

[Edited on 24/8/2012 by mcerd1]

silky16v - 24/8/12 at 03:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
So why does the OP mention short shitfting? Surely that would make it worse?
silky16v, I'm not quite sure what you achive by missing out second either..... ?

it sounds like your tring to hold onto first as long as possible, but maybe you should forget 1st gear all together and start in second (untill you get the ratio's sorted that is)




I remember a RV8 powered car with an R380 box with all the wrong ratio's, 1st was only used as a crawler gear and 5th was basically only for cruising - so for most of the driving it effectivly had a 3 speed box (luckly the V8 has the torque throught the rev range to partly make up for it though...)


i think some info got mixed up here i don't miss 2nd out i just short shift from 1st around 4000rpm as if i rev it out i doesn't like to go in 2nd and 1st is over in a blink of an eye if i try use this gear to set off quickly.

maybe its my use of short-shift thats got folk confused, i just not sure what u call it changing up a gear when not using the full rev range of that given gear selected

i know the standard 1st gear ratio is useless in a Kit car, i do plan to change the 1st gear cluster over winter

[Edited on 24/8/12 by silky16v]

loggyboy - 24/8/12 at 03:34 PM

Im even more confused!! lol

So if you change at 6-7k in first, where does that put you in 2nd? (revs wise)

[Edited on 24-8-12 by loggyboy]

Soot1e - 24/8/12 at 04:13 PM

[


I remember a RV8 powered car with an R380 box with all the wrong ratio's, 1st was only used as a crawler gear and 5th was basically only for cruising - so for most of the driving it effectivly had a 3 speed box (luckly the V8 has the torque throught the rev range to partly make up for it though...)



i think some info got mixed up here i don't miss 2nd out i just short shift from 1st around 4000rpm as if i rev it out i doesn't like to go in 2nd and 1st is over in a blink of an eye if i try use this gear to set off quickly.

maybe its my use of short-shift thats got folk confused, i just not sure what u call it changing up a gear when not using the full rev range of that given gear selected

i know the standard 1st gear ratio is useless in a Kit car, i do plan to change the 1st gear cluster over winter

[Edited on 24/8/12 by silky16v]


Well i understand what you meant, basically 1 st. IS useless. You do need a longer 1st. between 2.4 and 2.9 and also close ratios on the other gears, assuming you use it on road and track.

silky16v - 26/8/12 at 12:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Soot1e
[


I remember a RV8 powered car with an R380 box with all the wrong ratio's, 1st was only used as a crawler gear and 5th was basically only for cruising - so for most of the driving it effectivly had a 3 speed box (luckly the V8 has the torque throught the rev range to partly make up for it though...)


i think some info got mixed up here i don't miss 2nd out i just short shift from 1st around 4000rpm as if i rev it out i doesn't like to go in 2nd and 1st is over in a blink of an eye if i try use this gear to set off quickly.

maybe its my use of short-shift thats got folk confused, i just not sure what u call it changing up a gear when not using the full rev range of that given gear selected

i know the standard 1st gear ratio is useless in a Kit car, i do plan to change the 1st gear cluster over winter

[Edited on 24/8/12 by silky16v]


Well i understand what you meant, basically 1 st. IS useless. You do need a longer 1st. between 2.4 and 2.9 and also close ratios on the other gears, assuming you use it on road and track.


Yeah need the longer 1st, I use it mainly on road but hopefully some track time next year

Xtreme Kermit - 27/8/12 at 08:30 PM

you can see the effect here, courtesy of this excel sheet.

http://westfield-world.com/Gear_ratio_shifts.xls

This is a standard type 9. You can see the drop off in revs from 1st to 2nd.

Type 9 std ratios
Type 9 std ratios

This is a long first set up. You can see the revs drop nowhere near as far, and the engine will remain 'on the cam'

Type 9 long 1st
Type 9 long 1st