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simple zetec install
cliftyhanger - 12/12/12 at 06:42 PM

As I have FAR to much to do at the moment, though I would devote some thought time and future planning to my trusty Triumph toledo.

It currently sports a slightly tuned 1500 engine, and a whole 90bhp. But just not enough! Obvious answer is to drop a dolly sprint engine in, but that really isn't a cheap option. Not bad powerwise, nigh on 130bhp out of the box and a 40 year old design....

Still, I have a spare type 9 box, so what is the easiest install using the std injection setup. I have a tiny grasp that I need an early ECU and loom. Do I need a key too? Is there a guide to doing the install?

Also, is it possible to use the early ECU with a later eg blacktop engine?

There is an escort GTi engine/ecu/loom for sale atm for not a huge sum. Thought that may work out and 130bhp. Be easy to get is as a package? but still need some "instruction" plus I am not convinced there is room for the escort "over the top" throttle body/filter arrangement. an this be swapped for a mondeo one?

Lots of questions plus little knowledge on my part. Somebody please point me in the right direction!

Ta
Clive

Paul Turner - 12/12/12 at 07:09 PM

You asked this exact same question last Tuesday, are you not happy with the answers.

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/9/viewthread.php?tid=176815

Confused but excited. - 12/12/12 at 07:20 PM

Perhaps he's old like me and forgot he'd already asked the questions.

cliftyhanger - 12/12/12 at 07:28 PM

Now you mention it...I had actually forgotten my mind is rather busy elsewhere, still, I hope nobody is too offended and I can be forgiven. I really thought I hadn't got round to asking on here. Maybe I need a bit more sleep...........

More to the point, that was more about the carb/megajolt route. But something got me thinking about using the std injection. Obviously cheaper, and should work without any setting up.

I guess I am really after info on the "How To" bit of the injection setup, what is needed. There doesn't seem to be a decent guide that I can find, though I am certain the info is out there somewhere.....

big_wasa - 12/12/12 at 09:00 PM

The ecu doesnt see the age of the engine it just wants the info from the relivant sensor.

So yes use you can use a silver top ecu on a black top engine, just swap the sensors over. But as your starting from scratch just find a black top ecu for the black top engine.

I dont think the gti was a 130ps spec, more like 115ps. Also for a heavier car I would want the extra torque of the 2.0.

You wont find an how to as I havnt done one yet the reason being, wiring colours and ecu pin numbers changed along with functions for differant cars and years.

ie I would have to do a guide for each ecu.

Manifold's, I make my own bassed on the Ginetta log manifold.


This is mine.

Paul Turner - 13/12/12 at 07:33 AM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa

I dont think the gti was a 130ps spec, more like 115ps. Also for a heavier car I would want the extra torque of the 2.0.



The Escort GTi was 130ps. The 115ps spec was only used in the Mondeo and is not a desirable engine due to the head design.

cliftyhanger - 13/12/12 at 07:45 AM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
The ecu doesnt see the age of the engine it just wants the info from the relivant sensor.

So yes use you can use a silver top ecu on a black top engine, just swap the sensors over. But as your starting from scratch just find a black top ecu for the black top engine.



Aha, so it doesn't need to be a pre pats ecu? I was assuming the earlier one was much easier to untangle?

Now Paul, are you saying the mondeo used a different head to the other 1800 zetecs?? never heard that before, I thought they were all the same and the differences were down to the throttle body/inlet and the ECU??

Paul Turner - 13/12/12 at 08:35 AM

quote:


Now Paul, are you saying the mondeo used a different head to the other 1800 zetecs?? never heard that before, I thought they were all the same and the differences were down to the throttle body/inlet and the ECU??



The Mondeo 1800 head was subtly different to the Fiesta/Escort/Orion 1800 head. You will never get quite the same power from a 115 PS Mondeo engine as you will an 1800 Escort motor even if you add the 130 (or Mondeo 2 litre) cams. Remember speaking to Dunnell about this when I fitted the Zetec about 11 years ago. Basically his instructions were if you wanted any chance of getting his quoted 155 bhp from a 1.8 it had to be any non Mondeo 1800, preferably an 130ps motor but a 105 with 130 ps or 2 litre cams would be fine. If You used a 115 ps Mondeo engine and fitted 2 litre cams you would not get his quoted bhp figure.

It turned out to irreleveant, bought a 2 litre and found Dunnell to be an obnoxious b***d

But the Mondeo 1800's are more plentiful and newer.

Had you thought about one of the brand new crate 2 litre Blacktops. £700 or so gets you a brand spanking motor with inlet and exhaust and a flywheel (and clutch and flywheel that will mate to a type 9 providing you are not fussed about them being a boat anchor). The injectors alone would cost over £200 to buy.

[Edited on 13/12/12 by Paul Turner]

cliftyhanger - 13/12/12 at 02:10 PM

And I thought it was only BL who did bizarre stuff like that!
Thankyou for the info. I think Mr D does know his stuff, and enjoys letting people know. I have spoken to hem a couple of times, and he has always been helpful. Never spent a penny with him though. However, I do have one of his ecu/tb setups to go on my spitfire (also zetec powered)

As to £700 on an engine, I am afraid not. I am hesitating to spend £200...........hence wanting a cheap route. Bike carbs are a genuine possibility, but the setting up worries me as I don't want melted pistons. The std injection is a strong contender.

However, I need to find out exactly what to get and how to get it to work. That is once I have cleared my plate a little. A house move that involves spend vast sums of money is only a week away, think all that is seriously affecting my brain function at the moment

big_wasa - 13/12/12 at 09:03 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa

I dont think the gti was a 130ps spec, more like 115ps. Also for a heavier car I would want the extra torque of the 2.0.



The Escort GTi was 130ps. The 115ps spec was only used in the Mondeo and is not a desirable engine due to the head design.


No the escort gti was 115ps spec. not even all the xr3i's where 130's

http://www.fastfordmag.co.uk/files/2011/07/FAF266.escort_gti_buying.pdf

big_wasa - 13/12/12 at 09:08 PM

And I can run an injected zetec for way less than bike carbs.

I have paid as little as a quid for an ecu. With the pats just make sure you get the matching key. Less cash = more work and so on.

cliftyhanger - 13/12/12 at 09:30 PM

I am liking the sound of the std ECU more and more.

Now, where do I get thye info on the loom and any advice what I should get? I am guessing an ecu with the loom and key then? Anything else needed apart from an engie with all its sensors etc etc still attached. Besides my reading glasses and plenty of hours??

big_wasa - 15/12/12 at 03:23 PM

Sources of good info are the ford Tis aswell as Autodata. Unless your in the trade you will be looking for a knock off copy's on ebay ect.

It will help no end if you get the loom and ecu from one car. Stick to like for like. So if you use black top engines use black top bits.

I like the mondeo engine loom as its almost self contained. Add the pats tranceiver and a few power and earths and away she goes. The time is taken up by chopping the loom up to make it fit.

The pats is four extra wires so dont be put of.

97 > gives you obd2 functions, with a ten quid dongle I can connect my phone to the ecu and read real time info and check if the ecu isnt happy by checking on stored and pending fault codes. Another six wires.

bits you wont get with an engine so get with the loom/ecu.

Tranceiver and plug
Obd2 plug
Maf
O2 sensor.

cheers

cliftyhanger - 15/12/12 at 04:44 PM

Now that is a VERY helpful post. I know what to get now, written it down in my diary (and will transfer to next years after xmas day)

Many thanks
Clive

big_wasa - 15/12/12 at 04:57 PM

If you have any questions give me a pm.

I did start a "how to" but I am better with wiring than I am with the writen word. Four guys have tried it with my info, two managed it and two didnt.

I am working on an St170 ecu at the moment for a little extra pep and on a very limited budget.

AndyW - 15/12/12 at 06:14 PM

I was one who did manage it! Warren knows his stuff!!!

big_wasa - 15/12/12 at 06:26 PM

Looking good, whats that ticking over at Andy ?

AndyW - 15/12/12 at 10:01 PM

Last time it was running I was getting live data from ecu and it said 1170 ish so need to adjust idle screw a tad. It's on the list of jobs!!!

big_wasa - 15/12/12 at 10:11 PM

1170 would be fine if the engine was stone cold it will drop to around 900 when warmed.

Are you running the idle valve ? Is the Tb standard ? or the modified one I did for femi ?
Standard, the idle screw is sealed.

alladdin - 15/12/12 at 10:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa

I dont think the gti was a 130ps spec, more like 115ps. Also for a heavier car I would want the extra torque of the 2.0.



The Escort GTi was 130ps. The 115ps spec was only used in the Mondeo and is not a desirable engine due to the head design.


No the escort gti was 115ps spec. not even all the xr3i's where 130's

http://www.fastfordmag.co.uk/files/2011/07/FAF266.escort_gti_buying.pdf


correct, gti 115.

i am breaking one for my own use now.

AndyW - 16/12/12 at 08:31 AM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
1170 would be fine if the engine was stone cold it will drop to around 900 when warmed.

Are you running the idle valve ? Is the Tb standard ? or the modified one I did for femi ?
Standard, the idle screw is sealed.


Engine was cold as only had just started, next run up I will check idle when up to temp. Not running the idle valve and I bought the TB from femi so likely the one you modded!