Board logo

turbo engine problem
beaver34 - 17/3/13 at 10:05 AM

hi guys,

need some advice/help please

i have been out using my turbo sigma kit car done around 120 miles with no issues.

yesterday all was going well then it stopped holding boost and making a sort of whining or slipping noise under load

performance was rubbish, but it selected gears fine, lipped it home and was convinced it was the clutch and i had got something wrong in terms of clearances.

ive pulled the engine this morning and i dont think it is the clutch it dost look bad and its more than up to the job of the current low boost power level

where do i need to be looking next?

main boost pipes are fine were tight and are new no holes in them that i can see.

checked the external wastegate diafram and thats fine, blanked the feeds to it and blew down them no leaks there

any ideas what next to try, im due on the rollers friday to finish mapping and need to sort this asap!

i have pics of the clutch etc... and engine setup if anyone thinks they may be of use

thanks

chicade - 17/3/13 at 10:20 AM

Poss intercooler it self split? I have known it before on other applications.
If it is producing boost still just not holding it then it must be a pipe, waste gate, intercooler, gasket something along those lines
Did you try to load the clutch from a standstill to see if it slipped?

[Edited on 17/3/13 by chicade]

matt_gsxr - 17/3/13 at 10:25 AM

Check for boost leaks using a compressor.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/multi/boost-leak-tester-DIY-check.htm

I blew the blanking plugs out of my throttle bodies and it did some of what you describe.

beaver34 - 17/3/13 at 10:37 AM

quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
Check for boost leaks using a compressor.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/multi/boost-leak-tester-DIY-check.htm

I blew the blanking plugs out of my throttle bodies and it did some of what you describe.


ok ill have to make something up, trip to b n q later maybe for some hose joiners

matt_gsxr - 17/3/13 at 11:22 AM

An old innertube is quite useful if you have a compressor and a tyre inflator.

beaver34 - 17/3/13 at 11:55 AM

How does that work? Stretched over the hose end?

mark chandler - 17/3/13 at 01:28 PM

My plenum split, only noticeable when under pressure.

Waste gate stuck open ?

beaver34 - 17/3/13 at 02:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
My plenum split, only noticeable when under pressure.

Waste gate stuck open ?


its external and the original internal item is welded shut

plenum looks fine is a brand new jenvey turbo item using there direct to head throttle bodies all properly sealed i would be very annoyed if it were those leaking anything to be fair

still trying to sort something to test for boost leaks, any more ideas?

been to b n q but no pipe or fittings anywhere near the 3" i need, i can also reduce down to 52mm

jon200 - 17/3/13 at 04:04 PM

does the whine start as the compressor spools. it could be a impellar gone out of balance or chipped. or a gasket leak but id expect boost to still be there with that one. First port of call would be a pressure test imo.

beaver34 - 17/3/13 at 04:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jon200
does the whine start as the compressor spools. it could be a impellar gone out of balance or chipped. or a gasket leak but id expect boost to still be there with that one. First port of call would be a pressure test imo.


jon your right, impellor is catching the housing just had the turbo off

not good really as it has done about 8 hours work since new

not sure of the damage presume will need full rebuild?

madteg - 17/3/13 at 07:10 PM

I have just changed my plenum as it split on three occasions, as mentioned only visible under pressure. Good place to start looking.

jon200 - 18/3/13 at 01:10 PM

It will need rebuilding yes, is it a cheap Chinese turbo or a known manufacturer? I'd say you have oil feed problems for it to fail that quick. Either not enough oil getting to the turbo or a restricted drain from it.

beaver34 - 18/3/13 at 04:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jon200
It will need rebuilding yes, is it a cheap Chinese turbo or a known manufacturer? I'd say you have oil feed problems for it to fail that quick. Either not enough oil getting to the turbo or a restricted drain from it.


its a brand new garrett gt2871r from aet turbo's

oil feed is fine with good pressure, i log the pressure though the dash system as the oil pressure sender is in the same oil line.

the drain is stright down into the dry sump system no restriction apart from the 45 degree into the sump casting

ive dropped it off down there today, going to refit engine tonight and will test the oil feed to the turbo to double check

i quick call round and im finding they dont rebuld those turbo's they just get binned and you have to buy a new unit which is not sounding good as it was a lot of money!!!

jon200 - 18/3/13 at 07:42 PM

You would only need a core unit(can't remember the exact name) I have a 2871r .64 on my 200sx and have heard about others with this turbo having similar issues to you but not that quick. I can try to see what restrictor size should be used if you like. What about turbo dynamics

beaver34 - 18/3/13 at 10:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jon200
You would only need a core unit(can't remember the exact name) I have a 2871r .64 on my 200sx and have heard about others with this turbo having similar issues to you but not that quick. I can try to see what restrictor size should be used if you like. What about turbo dynamics


crht or something like that,

i run a restrictor that aet recommend, thing is im stuck with that turbo as i had all the exhaust system made to suit that unit other wise i would bin it off for another brand and not go roller bearing

jon200 - 19/3/13 at 05:41 AM

something like that yeah.

I guess its a V band exhaust flange? If not then you can used a standard t28 form an SX. My 2871r has done 20K and still going strong so roller bearings arent that bad. thats with good few trackdays too.

beaver34 - 19/3/13 at 07:02 AM

quote:
Originally posted by jon200
something like that yeah.

I guess its a V band exhaust flange? If not then you can used a standard t28 form an SX. My 2871r has done 20K and still going strong so roller bearings arent that bad. thats with good few trackdays too.


yes it is, fair enough maybe im unlucky, presume your running the water cooling on yours?

jon200 - 19/3/13 at 08:17 PM

Yeah I am, do you not on yours? I spoke to a guy that is a mapper and the bearings are sat on the turbine shaft so that's why they can't be rebuilt.

beaver34 - 19/3/13 at 08:59 PM

Yes mine had it, says £550 + vat standard or £700+ if I want upgraded bearings

Going to make water cooling better as car runs hot

Separated rad and pump and run it as its own system

westy turbo - 22/3/13 at 07:34 AM

bb turbos need the feed to run with the water system.

T66 - 22/3/13 at 07:57 AM

quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
quote:
Originally posted by jon200
does the whine start as the compressor spools. it could be a impellar gone out of balance or chipped. or a gasket leak but id expect boost to still be there with that one. First port of call would be a pressure test imo.


jon your right, impellor is catching the housing just had the turbo off

not good really as it has done about 8 hours work since new

not sure of the damage presume will need full rebuild?





Has the bearing collapsed allowing the impeller to contact the body ? if your turbo is new with only 8 hours on it, this has to be a manufacturer failure or its been run without oil. I notice you said the feed/supply was ok with good pressure ?I am surprised its lasted 8 hours with no oil, which suggests to me, you have oil but just not enough somehow.

Could blade fragments have been ingested past the inlet valves into the bores ?

beaver34 - 22/3/13 at 12:48 PM

blades were fine.

on inspection its overheated due to insufisiant cooling, had issues on dyno with engine throwing a belt and having to kill it hot which meat a hot shutdown of the turbo with no coolant in the system as it empited itself

new core in order for the turbo and making a improved cooling setup with a secondary water pump that will run after the engine is shut down like production cars have that have bb turbo's

all in all and expensive mistake somewhere along the lines!