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Which Engine ?
Barkalarr - 27/8/13 at 10:19 PM

Which CEC is today's most desirable engine technology for a se7en and what year donor car is it coming out of?

It needs to connect to a type 9 gearbox.

I notice the newer Catering Vans seem to have a Ford Sigma engine (Zetec-SE)
Sigma engine seem to have been superseded (according to Wikipedia - so it must be true) by the ecoboost technology. Isn't this going to be too tall for a se7en?

What direction would the collective take?

Volvorsport - 27/8/13 at 10:29 PM

VW Tsi ...

but i think in the case of a seven youve just described a 2.5 millington....

ste - 27/8/13 at 10:36 PM

I went for a Sigma engine.

The 1.7 VVT from the Puma.

Reasons; light weight, all aluminium (2/3 the weight of a black-top zetec)

125bhp standard, can be turbo'd to 240bhp on standard internals and injectors. Down side is you need to have the crank drilled out to take a spigot bearing for the type 9. You need an adaptor bell-housing and ideally hydraulic clutch release.

The vvt can be controlled by an aftermarket ecu and gives more low down torque and more top end bhp.

I think the two best engines are a corsa vxr engine. 1.6 turbo and 200bhp. can be bolted to a type 9 with a normal redtop bell housing adaptor. And then a honda s2000 engine and box

loggyboy - 27/8/13 at 10:38 PM

Zetec will be the prime engine for type 9 mounting for next 5 yrs imo, till the ecoboost is explored. Especially as crate lumps are still available at circa £700.

As for general donors, mx5 and to a lesser extent the bmw will be the more modern replacement as ford rwds parts become more scarce and manufacturers explore (as some already have) newer avenues.

eddie99 - 27/8/13 at 10:40 PM

1.6 ecoboost, cheap (admittedly not zetec money but cheap considering brand new 2013 engine), readily available. 215bhp standard with aftermarket ecu and wiring.

ste - 28/8/13 at 12:53 AM

If you're talking future, I'd like to install a Tesla rear axle and then fill the engine bay with lithium batteries. 415bhp and loads of torque

daniel mason - 28/8/13 at 06:20 AM

i dont think a turbo is the way forward at all. i remember watching a 5th gear with plato driving the new wesfield with the 1.6 turbo lump from the vxr and he hated its power delivery!
id agree with loggy and say a 2.0 zetec. tb's and cams should see plenty of power for a 7!

dhutch - 28/8/13 at 07:09 AM

quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason2.0 zetec. tb's and cams

Rightly or wrongly, you certainly wouldnt be the first to use this combination!

cliftyhanger - 28/8/13 at 09:11 AM

so why isn't the duratec 2.0 so poular? after all zetec donors are all 12+ years old (or is it more)
OK, needs a new bellhousing, but surely using the later engine is long term a better idea. Saying that the smaller all alloy zetecs are a good little engine and have a definate weight advantage.

Still, I like the zetecs, but think things will change on that front. Especially as type 9's are getting harder to find. So maybe the future is german or japanese.

loggyboy - 28/8/13 at 09:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
so why isn't the duratec 2.0 so poular? after all zetec donors are all 12+ years old (or is it more)
OK, needs a new bellhousing, but surely using the later engine is long term a better idea. Saying that the smaller all alloy zetecs are a good little engine and have a definate weight advantage.


It is realatively, but on a budget, the engine cost premium (at the mo, as that will come down) combined with the bellhousing cost makes it less attractive for only a few extra HP.
Availablity of super cheap used and cheapish crate zetecs (which makes a new reg quite accesable) keeps them at the top of the list.
The other reason zetecs seem more popular is its an easy conversion from older fords, whilst the duratec exhaust maybe on the same as the pintos, the 'bolt on' gearbox makes the zetec a good 'refresh' choice.

ali f27 - 28/8/13 at 09:43 AM

Have a ride out in sombodys duratec car end of story

dhutch - 28/8/13 at 04:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
so why isn't the duratec 2.0 so poular?

They are becoming more common, but while other may disagree or add to the list:
- They cost more, both new, and used.
- They need a bespoke bellhousing, as they do not use a ford bolt pattern.
- The weight/power difference is fairly limited
- The aftermarket market is still smaller
- The exhaust is on the wrong side.

Basically, while slightly more modern, most of the changes are in the bits we dont use, at which point there limited advantage, and several disadvantages.

The sigma 'zetec' is more different, or atleast as diffrent, to the zetec as the duratech.


Daniel

Nitrogeno25 - 28/8/13 at 04:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ali f27
Have a ride out in sombodys duratec car end of story


+1

ali f27 - 28/8/13 at 05:03 PM

Time for a proper answer decide what you most want and balance that with what you can afford under 200 bhp pinto great engine loved mine still got it probs never sell cvh again good engine old 16 valve ford ie good engine lot of nutsack talked we had 200 bhp with out a lot of money spent zetec good engine cheap new in a box all go on ford gearbox.
Up the budget £300 and change bellhousing clutch etc and you can bolt lots of things to ford gearbox, redtop great engine as heavy as the above but over 200 bhp, duratec all alloy over 200 bhp not difficult at all next lightest to bec going to be in plenty full supply mondeo all these are 2.0.but same applies to zetec se .
When we build a seven power to wheight seems to be the name of the game thats why a 128 bhp blade car gos so well.
I f you see your self racing it ever build the lightest car with the most power you can affford at the start with the flexibilty to tune afterwards.
All of us would have a nice garage if we won the lottery mine would include V8 DAX for sunday runs but i would keep the f27 duratec for the times when i wanted to go fast and fritghten myself
So best power to weight engine standing out of the car has to be target
Comments welcome Ali

dhutch - 28/8/13 at 05:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ali f27
Time for a proper answer.
Decide what you most want and balance that with what you can afford.

Under 200 bhp:
Pinto; great engine loved mine still got it probs never sell
CVH; again good engine old 16 valve ford ie good engine lot of nutsack talked we had 200 bhp with out a lot of money spent.
Zetec; good engine cheap new in a box all go on ford gearbox.

Up the budget £300 and change bellhousing clutch etc and you can bolt lots of things to ford gearbox,
Redtop great engine as heavy as the above but over 200 bhp
Duratec all alloy over 200 bhp not difficult at all next lightest to bec going to be in plentiful supply mondeo all these are 2.0 but same applies to zetec se.

When we build a seven power to weight seems to be the name of the game that's why a 128 bhp blade car goes so well.

If you see your self racing it ever build the lightest car with the most power you can afford at the start with the flexibility to tune afterwards.
All of us would have a nice garage if we won the lottery mine would include V8 DAX for Sunday runs but I would keep the F27 Duratec for the times when I wanted to go fast and frighten myself.

So best power to weight engine standing out of the car has to be target

Comments welcome Ali

Your right that the budget and end use are important, there is no one right answer even when that's answered, but if its not, there's even more answers.

Daniel

coozer - 28/8/13 at 05:58 PM

Audi or lexus v8

DIY Si - 30/8/13 at 07:46 AM

Why does it have to bolt the increasingly hard to find type 9? The early MX-5 box is £50-100 on Ebay and will handle more power whilst having an alloy casing so it's lighter too. And if you use the newer version, along with the VVC version of the duratec that it bolts to you have the best of both worlds.

dhutch - 31/8/13 at 05:59 PM

Also valid, I knew the duratech as a mazda/ford colab using a masda volt pattern but didnt know it was that simply to mate a duratech to a mx5 box, certainly appears to be more common to use a custom bellhousing a mate it a t9?

franky - 31/8/13 at 07:32 PM

bmw engine 4 or 6 cylinder, made for RWD, cheap to buy, runs off the standard ecu and isn't another ford.

If you do fit a ford engine remember to fit some team dynamics too

Furyous - 1/9/13 at 09:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by dhutch
Also valid, I knew the duratech as a mazda/ford colab using a masda volt pattern but didnt know it was that simply to mate a duratech to a mx5 box, certainly appears to be more common to use a custom bellhousing a mate it a t9?



I'm using an MX5 gearbox with my Duratec. You just need to use the MX5 starter/clutch/flywheel but apart from that it just bolts straight to the engine. Same spigot bearing as the T9 as well. The gear changes on the MX5 box are so much better. It has a nice, definitive click-clack movement as opposed to the T9's wibble-squidge. The main downside is it's a bit fatter than the T9 and the bell housing is bigger (Read: lower to the ground) than the aftermarket T9 bell housings.

I got my 5 speed for £125 but they seem to normally go for around £400, which is quite a bit more than a T9 bell housing. Although, if you already have a T9 you could sell it on and the cost difference won't be far off. The MX5 box also uses a different prop shaft yoke to the T9, which is something to consider if you're replacing bits rather than starting fresh.

loggyboy - 1/9/13 at 10:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by dhutch
quote:
Originally posted by ali f27
Time for a proper answer.
Decide what you most want and balance that with what you can afford.

Under 200 bhp:
Pinto; great engine loved mine still got it probs never sell
CVH; again good engine old 16 valve ford ie good engine lot of nutsack talked we had 200 bhp with out a lot of money spent.
Zetec; good engine cheap new in a box all go on ford gearbox.

Up the budget £300 and change bellhousing clutch etc and you can bolt lots of things to ford gearbox,
Redtop great engine as heavy as the above but over 200 bhp
Duratec all alloy over 200 bhp not difficult at all next lightest to bec going to be in plentiful supply mondeo all these are 2.0 but same applies to zetec se.

When we build a seven power to weight seems to be the name of the game that's why a 128 bhp blade car goes so well.

If you see your self racing it ever build the lightest car with the most power you can afford at the start with the flexibility to tune afterwards.
All of us would have a nice garage if we won the lottery mine would include V8 DAX for Sunday runs but I would keep the F27 Duratec for the times when I wanted to go fast and frighten myself.

So best power to weight engine standing out of the car has to be target

Comments welcome Ali

Your right that the budget and end use are important, there is no one right answer even when that's answered, but if its not, there's even more answers.

Daniel


Thanks for that, was scratching my head for ages! The proper answer (allegedly), but so badly punctuated!
Also since when was the cvh 16v. Or good?

dave r - 2/9/13 at 05:45 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Nitrogeno25
quote:
Originally posted by ali f27
Have a ride out in sombodys duratec car end of story


+1


and another