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raceline sump fitted now dipstick wont stay in...

matt5964 - 28/8/13 at 08:29 PM

I have had a raceline sump fitted and now the dipstick wont stay in and oil spurts out over engine bay and headders... Feels like the dipstick is too long and hitting the bottom of the sump?? and one have any ideas?

austin man - 28/8/13 at 08:41 PM

you need to cut the dipstick down by the difference in depth between the original and new sump. fill the engine with the recomended volume of oil dip the cut down stich in see where the oil comes to this is your maximum mark on your stick

FuryRebuild - 28/8/13 at 08:43 PM

My first thought is breathing. Do you have adequate breathing to ensure the oil vapours are externally vented so you don't build up excessive pressure in the sump. performance pintos were difficult like this and and needed the factory valve removing and the oil recirculation system changing to vent to a catch tank.

Also, does your sump have a lower capacity than the standard engine (I'm assuming zetec or duratec). If so, it will chuck oil everywhere until its happy.

Do raceline specify an oil level? it may be less than the manufacturer.

I know on racing minis, my friends ran them a full pint lower than the min recommendation - no piston slap and up to 500 more RPM

dave_424 - 28/8/13 at 08:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by austin man
you need to cut the dipstick down by the difference in depth between the original and new sump. fill the engine with the recomended volume of oil dip the cut down stich in see where the oil comes to this is your maximum mark on your stick

Wouldn't that give a much higher than normal oil level and risk frothing from the crank?

matt5964 - 28/8/13 at 08:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by austin man
you need to cut the dipstick down by the difference in depth between the original and new sump. fill the engine with the recomended volume of oil dip the cut down stich in see where the oil comes to this is your maximum mark on your stick

just re read the fitting instructions and only mentions filling with exactly 5ltr oil and then scribing the stick to the new correct level

matt5964 - 28/8/13 at 08:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
My first thought is breathing. Do you have adequate breathing to ensure the oil vapours are externally vented so you don't build up excessive pressure in the sump. performance pintos were difficult like this and and needed the factory valve removing and the oil recirculation system changing to vent to a catch tank.

Also, does your sump have a lower capacity than the standard engine (I'm assuming zetec or duratec). If so, it will chuck oil everywhere until its happy.

Do raceline specify an oil level? it may be less than the manufacturer.

I know on racing minis, my friends ran them a full pint lower than the min recommendation - no piston slap and up to 500 more RPM

sorry should have mentioned its fitted to a blacktop 2ltr the head has a breather filter straight to the engine bay. the raceline sump has a capacity of 5ltr

austin man - 28/8/13 at 08:57 PM

the Raceline sump is shallower but I believe it is also wider due to wings being fitted to allow correct oil capacity

paulf - 28/8/13 at 09:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuildsorry should have mentioned its fitted to a blacktop 2ltr the head has a breather filter straight to the engine bay. the raceline sump has a capacity of 5ltr

Have you also got the breather on the side of the crankcase connected? I retained it on my set up but removed the spring loaded vale from within the outlet as it would never open when connected to an open breather outlet as it relies on inlet vacuum to open normally.
Paul

matt5964 - 28/8/13 at 09:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by paulf

quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuildsorry should have mentioned its fitted to a blacktop 2ltr the head has a breather filter straight to the engine bay. the raceline sump has a capacity of 5ltr

Have you also got the breather on the side of the crankcase connected? I retained it on my set up but removed the spring loaded vale from within the outlet as it would never open when connected to an open breather outlet as it relies on inlet vacuum to open normally.
Paul

I have no idea, there is a small filter on the side of the head on the opposite side on the exhaust at the top left as you look at it.

snapper - 28/8/13 at 09:19 PM

Also the top level mark on dipstick will not change as it is the oil level relative to the block/ crank
Go over this and the crank dips into the oil

matt5964 - 28/8/13 at 09:22 PM

I'm still proper confused as the instructions state only to remark the level after 5ltrs added and a Google search brings up nothing but the same, no one having issue with the dipstick not staying in ..

will give Raceline a call in the morning.me thinks.

dhutch - 29/8/13 at 06:28 AM

If your aiming for the same level, and have the same dipstick, the mark will be int he right place.

However, its often very possible to add 10-20mm onto the height of the oil level, increasing (or reducing the decrease in) oil capacity without getting close enough to froth the oil.

That said, its all so quite possible to forth the oil...

Daniel

matt5964 - 29/8/13 at 07:24 AM

quote:
Originally posted by dhutch
If your aiming for the same level, and have the same dipstick, the mark will be int he right place.

However, its often very possible to add 10-20mm onto the height of the oil level, increasing (or reducing the decrease in) oil capacity without getting close enough to froth the oil.

That said, its all so quite possible to forth the oil...

Daniel

Thanks for this, but the issue I need to resolve is the didstick popping out and oil spurting from the tube, I have the level sorted as per Raceline instructions

loggyboy - 29/8/13 at 07:28 AM

Is the engine or dipstick new?
Do you have the correct dipstick?
Is the rubber seal still there. IIRC its on the neck on silver top and on the dipstick itself on the blacktop.

matt5964 - 29/8/13 at 08:10 AM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Is the engine or dipstick new?
Do you have the correct dipstick?
Is the rubber seal still there. IIRC its on the neck on silver top and on the dipstick itself on the blacktop.

Crated blacktop so all new, was fine before the Raceline sump was fitted (done appx 600 miles be fitting the sump)

loggyboy - 29/8/13 at 08:27 AM

Was the sump new or used?
The raceline site shows two types of baffle plate, could it be that you have the silvertop one and its slightly different as the dipsticks are in different postitions IIRC.

matt5964 - 29/8/13 at 08:58 AM

it was a new sump, Could be as I had to ask for the one that fits the MT75 box with the started on the exhaust site also.

I will call Raceline this morning and see if they can shed some light

Not Anumber - 29/8/13 at 10:31 AM

Make sure the dipstick tube hasnt moved round a bit whilst you have been working on the engine. It could be the crank is slightly fouling the bottom of the dipstick and knocking it upwards.

dhutch - 29/8/13 at 11:10 AM

quote:
Originally posted by matt5964Thanks for this, but the issue I need to resolve is the didstick popping out and oil spurting from the tube, I have the level sorted as per Raceline instructions

I wasnt going to post it, but I must say, I cable tie it in on CVH...

matt5964 - 29/8/13 at 03:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Not Anumber
Make sure the dipstick tube hasnt moved round a bit whilst you have been working on the engine. It could be the crank is slightly fouling the bottom of the dipstick and knocking it upwards.

I started it up and watched it and it does seem that the stick is moving and prob rubbing or knocking something...

how would it have moved as they are secured at the top?

Also how does the tube come out at the bottom as I want to replace the O ring?

loggyboy - 29/8/13 at 04:02 PM

The blacktop O ring is on the base of the handle, on the stick itself, not the tube.
Is that missing/worn?

matt5964 - 29/8/13 at 04:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
The blacktop O ring is on the base of the handle, on the stick itself, not the tube.
Is that missing/worn?

Sorry I mean the O ring at the bottom of the Tube were it enters the block as belt and braces approach.

I have ordered a new Dipstick ford ref 1094671 as this was the suggestion from Raceline themselves when I called today and if this did not work then I am to call them back....

Need this like a hole in the head... First track day booked up for 11th Sept...

[Edited on 29/8/13 by matt5964]

Not Anumber - 30/8/13 at 09:43 AM

If all else fails you can always block the top of the dipstick tube with a cap and just remove it when you need to use the dipstick to check the oil level.

Keep it with the car as you will want to check the oil regularly- but theres no rule to say it needs to be kept in the engine, thats just convenience and convention.

Charlie_Zetec - 30/8/13 at 10:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Not Anumber
If all else fails you can always block the top of the dipstick tube with a cap and just remove it when you need to use the dipstick to check the oil level.

Keep it with the car as you will want to check the oil regularly- but theres no rule to say it needs to be kept in the engine, thats just convenience and convention.

I bought SWMBO a Merc C200 coupe not too long ago to replace her old Fiesta; that doesn't have a dip stick as standard. It uses the on-board computer to tell you oil level/quantity. You can buy the dipstick from Merc, but no real need!

I am not suggesting you build an OBD-style oil level reader, although that would be quick bling....

matt5964 - 30/8/13 at 10:52 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Not Anumber
If all else fails you can always block the top of the dipstick tube with a cap and just remove it when you need to use the dipstick to check the oil level.

Keep it with the car as you will want to check the oil regularly- but theres no rule to say it needs to be kept in the engine, thats just convenience and convention.

Very true and a good suggestion, I would still like to get to the bottom of the issue to ensure it does not have any other effects, and I am just masking the symptoms for convenience

britishtrident - 30/8/13 at 11:11 AM

If you put 5 litres in the sump way is over filled no wonder oil is spirting out.
The standard sump only takes 3.75 litres with filter . Shorten the bottom of the dipstick and fill to the original mark, you may be able to a little more oil beyond this but not much.

The Raceline advice on sumps sounds about a good as the design of their water rails.

MikeRJ - 30/8/13 at 11:32 AM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
If you put 5 litres in the sump way is over filled no wonder oil is spirting out.
The standard sump only takes 3.75 litres with filter . Shorten the bottom of the dipstick and fill to the original mark, you may be able to a little more oil beyond this but not much.

The Raceline advice on sumps sounds about a good as the design of their water rails.

I thought the blacktop Zetec had an oil capacity of 4.25 litres? Looking at the design of the Raceline sump, it's quite possible it has a higher capacity than the original since it's still reasonably deep and has the extra 'wing'.

The bottom line is that the original mark on the dipstick should be used IMO, if 5 litres take it to the full level then it's correct.

matt5964 - 30/8/13 at 11:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
If you put 5 litres in the sump way is over filled no wonder oil is spirting out.
The standard sump only takes 3.75 litres with filter . Shorten the bottom of the dipstick and fill to the original mark, you may be able to a little more oil beyond this but not much.

The Raceline advice on sumps sounds about a good as the design of their water rails.

Lots of people and racers use the raceline sump as it considered to be the best out there with no issues at all

so there must be something either with my dipstick/tube, the installation or as someone previously pointed out the wrong sump innards sent to me by raceline.

matt5964 - 30/8/13 at 09:09 PM

Just a quick update, the new dipstick and a tween to the angle of the bracket for the tube and seems to have done the trick. Just need to test drive it on Sunday to see if the new dipstick pops out under load