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Zetec turbo big BHP
BaileyPerformance - 23/11/13 at 11:47 PM

Hi all,

We have been developing a full race zetec turbo for a customer who has it installed in a Escort RS Turbo.

Mapping not complete yet as we have a spark blow out issue that we temporarily fixed by closing the plug gaps, at 1.8BAR of boost the car made 462BHP and over 380lb/ft tq, still pulling at 7K.

We need to install a better ignition system so we can revert back to 1.1mm plug gaps from the 0.8mm we have set now, we intend to run at least 2BAR of boost and we are hoping to see over 500BHP, probably more if we optimize the cam timing as we have it set at standard at the mo.

Brief spec....
2.0L silvertop
ported head on standard valves
N/A rally cams
Jenvey inlet with custom plenum
625cc injectors
4.5BAR weber alpha FPR
MS2 extra code

The car idles a little high (1000rpm) and is slightly lumpy but can be driven around like a shopping car, starts well from cold and should give reasonable MPG if driven normally. When you boot it it is very very quick, spinning the wheels at speed in top gear!

NigeEss - 24/11/13 at 01:03 AM

Nice

Is the bottom end good enough for that amount of grunt or is it beefed up ?

jeffw - 24/11/13 at 07:33 AM

Have you changed the pistons and rods?

bi22le - 24/11/13 at 08:50 AM

Spill the beans, stick bottom?

I was talking to a guy at llangdow this year that had a stock zetec with a rotrex. He was running abot 250bhp whixh is no biggie on a stock bottom but surely ypur brave tobe knocking on for twice that with ne Iissues. Reduction in CR must be a minimum to prevent pre det at 2 bar?

beaver34 - 24/11/13 at 08:54 AM

Impressive, is it dry stumped, and what's it revving to?

six mad - 24/11/13 at 09:18 AM

I would guess fully forged at this power and a BIG turbo

imp paul - 24/11/13 at 09:36 AM

it sounds like a nice engine ,hope you manage to get to your target spec, but from memmory rs turbo gear boxs are a pile of cheese lol a pal of mine killed more than a few lol

CNHSS1 - 24/11/13 at 09:38 AM

Its common on cossie YBs and the nissan engines im used to, to run narrower plug gaps on race engines. I run 25thou from the oem 1.1mm (38 thou iirc). Cant see any real detriment to running narrower gaps, its not as if a 500hp motor is likely to give great mpg or emissions anyway lol

BaileyPerformance - 24/11/13 at 11:43 AM

Thanks for the interest, full spec as follows....

Standard crank and rods, forged pistons
7.5/1cr
standard oil pump
fully synthetic 10/50 morris's oil
standard sump
GT3071R turbo with custom 3" exhaust

Peak power at 6100RPM, rev limit 7350RPM, peak torque around 5500RPM

Running 1.8BAR at the mo, which is low boost for 460BHP, my cosworth YB runs 28-30PSI and makes 360BHP so the zetec is far more efficient than a stock YB.

hoping to see over 500BHP when the ignition is sorted out and we have optimised the cam timing ;-)

coozer - 24/11/13 at 11:53 AM

Just my kind of motor, keep at it!

six mad - 24/11/13 at 12:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
Thanks for the interest, full spec as follows....

Standard crank and rods, forged pistons
7.5/1cr
standard oil pump
fully synthetic 10/50 morris's oil
standard sump
GT3071R turbo with custom 3" exhaust

Peak power at 6100RPM, rev limit 7350RPM, peak torque around 5500RPM

Running 1.8BAR at the mo, which is low boost for 460BHP, my cosworth YB runs 28-30PSI and makes 360BHP so the zetec is far more efficient than a stock YB.

hoping to see over 500BHP when the ignition is sorted out and we have optimised the cam timing ;-)




WOW Standard Rods Thats amazing, are they that good stock. Have you had previous
experience of what the rods can take?

What torque is it making?

[Edited on 24/11/13 by six mad]

BaileyPerformance - 24/11/13 at 12:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CNHSS1
Its common on cossie YBs and the nissan engines im used to, to run narrower plug gaps on race engines. I run 25thou from the oem 1.1mm (38 thou iirc). Cant see any real detriment to running narrower gaps, its not as if a 500hp motor is likely to give great mpg or emissions anyway lol


Your right, most factory ignition systems do not have enough energy to fire at very high cylinder pressures - so the way around this was to close up the plug gaps. The problem is this will effect idle and part throttle, also in some cases the top end power - the bigger the plug gap the better assuming the ignition can handle it.

My own 3 door cosworth runs 28PSI of boost on megasquirt with MSD coilpack and MSD DIS4 multispark driver, i'm using BCPR8E plugs (very hard) set at 1.1mm without spark blowout.
We intend to install MSD on the RS Turbo and revert back to stock plug gaps but with 2 grades harder plugs, with MSD there is no need to worry about fouled plugs.

bi22le - 24/11/13 at 12:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
Thanks for the interest, full spec as follows....

Standard crank and rods, forged pistons
7.5/1cr
standard oil pump
fully synthetic 10/50 morris's oil
standard sump
GT3071R turbo with custom 3" exhaust

Peak power at 6100RPM, rev limit 7350RPM, peak torque around 5500RPM

Running 1.8BAR at the mo, which is low boost for 460BHP, my cosworth YB runs 28-30PSI and makes 360BHP so the zetec is far more efficient than a stock YB.

hoping to see over 500BHP when the ignition is sorted out and we have optimised the cam timing ;-)




OoO 7.5:1 CR and a turbo to suck in small children, boggier than your average serial killers burying ground!!

FWD I hope to? Im still a Ford man at heart, many back to back years at Ford Fiar and still love the way you guys push the boundaries. Ford fans are definatly not stuck in the past.

Keep it up.

BaileyPerformance - 24/11/13 at 12:22 PM

WOW Standard Rods Thats amazing, are they that good stock. Have you had previous
experience of what the rods can take?

What torque is it making?

[Edited on 24/11/13 by six mad]



Yep, stock rods, we have seen over 400lb/ft on standard slivertop rods without and issue, we do use HD bearing and our engine builder is very very careful when building these motors, that has alot to do with it.
Also, oil is very important, it needs to be thick to maintain oil pressure at high RPM and load with a hot engine.


Its worth noting that the customer makes full use of the power, he texted me this morning to say the car smokes the tyres 5th at 120mph, straight to the 7350rpm limiter!
He now needs to work on the suspension and transmission, the standard IB5 RS Turbo box will probably die soon.

coozer - 24/11/13 at 12:30 PM

Curious, can you give us a ball park price to build the motor?

ashg - 24/11/13 at 12:32 PM

just stick a saab b234 in it. it will make that power with a turbo and some injectors

good going for a zetec though

have you tried the ls truck coils they are meant to provide plenty of power especially if you move to sequential.

[Edited on 24/11/2013 by ashg]

BaileyPerformance - 24/11/13 at 01:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ashg
just stick a saab b234 in it. it will make that power with a turbo and some injectors

good going for a zetec though

have you tried the ls truck coils they are meant to provide plenty of power especially if you move to sequential.

[Edited on 24/11/2013 by ashg]


The saab motor will make same sort of power but you would need more boost to do it, the good thing about this build is it makes loads of power for the boost its running, years ago it was normal to run 36PSI on a cosworth YB to see 500BHP.

We are already running an MSD coilpack and leads, i had assumed this would be enough as we are running 5mS of dwell too.

The LS coils have about the same output as the MSD coilpack, we are getting misfires around peak torque (which makes sense) so at that RPM there is plenty of time to charge the the coils so sequential would not help.

Proby - 24/11/13 at 01:13 PM

Blimey, that sounds like a right handful!! Impressive.

BaileyPerformance - 24/11/13 at 01:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Curious, can you give us a ball park price to build the motor?



I'm converting a westfield to turbo zetec at the moment, not quite as higher spec as the RS Turbo but will make around 320bhp.
I will ask the owner if i can post here the details, probably more applicable to locost than the RS Turbo conversion.

Anyway, just the basic engine (without any bolt on bits) is £3500 for that you get steel rods, forged pistons, piper cams, fully ported head, ARP everywhere, good for 500BHP

The inlet, turbo, exhaust, ecu and mapping is extra and depends on the car it is to be installed in.

Just as a rough estimate the complete conversion is a locost would be around £7500 fitted including high pressure fuel system, clutch and exhaust.

six mad - 24/11/13 at 02:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Curious, can you give us a ball park price to build the motor?



I'm converting a westfield to turbo zetec at the moment, not quite as higher spec as the RS Turbo but will make around 320bhp.
I will ask the owner if i can post here the details, probably more applicable to locost than the RS Turbo conversion.

Anyway, just the basic engine (without any bolt on bits) is £3500 for that you get steel rods, forged pistons, piper cams, fully ported head, ARP everywhere, good for 500BHP

The inlet, turbo, exhaust, ecu and mapping is extra and depends on the car it is to be installed in.

Just as a rough estimate the complete conversion is a locost would be around £7500 fitted including high pressure fuel system, clutch and exhaust.




How much is a bare short engine build without the rods and forged pistons?

[Edited on 24/11/13 by six mad]

BaileyPerformance - 24/11/13 at 04:51 PM

How much is a bare short engine build without the rods and forged pistons?

[Edited on 24/11/13 by six mad]



Do you mean a stock motor?

we wouldnt normally build an engine with stock internals, when we have been asked to do a conversion upto 250BHP we just get a complete second hand engine from the scrap yard and use that.

i would think a stock short motor rebuild would be around £700

six mad - 24/11/13 at 06:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
How much is a bare short engine build without the rods and forged pistons?

[Edited on 24/11/13 by six mad]


Do you mean a stock motor?

we wouldnt normally build an engine with stock internals, when we have been asked to do a conversion upto 250BHP we just get a complete second hand engine from the scrap yard and use that.

i would think a stock short motor rebuild would be around £700



Apologies for been unclear.

What i mean is if I bring you a short motor how much would the short motor cost to build
as per your post. With the hd bearings and forged pistons, but using the standard crank and rods?

beaver34 - 24/11/13 at 09:42 PM

Have you got a graph for this engine?

BaileyPerformance - 25/11/13 at 03:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
Have you got a graph for this engine?


if someone can tell me how to post a pdf i will post the dyno printout ;-0

ludsonline - 29/11/13 at 02:06 PM

Do a screen dump of the PDF and save it as an image file.