How much does everyone reckon, or how much have you spent swapping out your old carbed engine for a Duratec?
Just did a guesstimate and came up with the following -
Duratec Engine 300
Sump 350
Cable Bellhousing 200
ST150 Flywheel 50
Clutch VCK726 50
Starter Motor 50
Clutch Cable Use exisiting 1.3 capri
Clutch Arm Using existing
Release Bearing Use existing
Bike Throttle Bodies 100
Manifold for TBs 50
Air Filter Use Exisitng
Modify exisitng Pinto exhaust 50
Megasquirt + Wiring 300
Fuel Tank with int swirl pot 125
Fule Pump & Regulator 100
Total 1725
Would add alternator small denso will need engine mounts pipe work etc
I reckon you will not get much change out of £2k.
you will also want,
Spigot bearing
EGR blanking plate
and don't forget that the water outlet is on the back of the engine.
edited to swap inlet for outlet after checking
[Edited on 21/1/14 by ceebmoj]
As a money saving idea what are the thoughts on Duratecs and bike carbs?
FastDan has built a Duratec with bike carbs, seems to be pretty good, send him a u2u he will help you out.
He aslo makes the inlet manifolds, engine mount brackets etc for the Duratec.
Mechanical thermostat
If you can get hold of the ST 150 engine, it has a standard flywheel, the EGR blanked off already and mechanical thermostat i.e. its not controlled by
the ECU.
The water outlet is at the rear of the cylinder head.
As a balance I spent 2K on a high spec Pinto and still didn't get anywhere near the bhp of a standard Duratec with just a set of cams
I am upgrading my pinto at the moment and with all the hassle and "extra" things to buy for it, it would be about the same price to drop a
duratec in right about now... lesson learnt!!
I priced what it would cost me to drop a Duratec in before I started the pinto and it came to about 1.6k (holding out for bargains which would be
possible if you are willing to wait)
Matt
Is there a preferred starter, or just the 2.0 Duratec starter?
depends on the flywheel....
st150 is different to dual massed mondeo flywheel, they can be made to fit, you need to machine a bit off the mounting feet.... mines done that way
was someone not supplying the steel sump (/kit) that flak monkey came up with ?
(it used to be 3GE components)
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=137649
if no one is supplying them them anymore you could always drop him a u2u
[Edited on 22/1/2014 by mcerd1]
Had another look at my list this morning -
For a 'basic injection install' i reckon you need £2K minnimum :-
Duratec Engine 300
Sump 350
Cable Bellhousing 200
ST150 Flywheel 50
Clutch VCK726 50
Starter Motor 50
Clutch Cable Use exisiting 1.3 capri
Clutch Arm Using existing
Release Bearing Use existing
Bike Throttle Bodies 100
Manifold for TBs 50
Air Filter Use Exisitng
Modify exisitng Pinto exhaust 50
Megasquirt + Wiring 300
Fuel Tank with int swirl pot 125
Fule Pump & Regulator 100
EGR Blanking Plate Make
Engine Mount Arms Make
Engine Mount Rubbers 40
Small Alternator 50
Spigot Bearing 15
Mechanical Thermostat 40
Cooling System Mods 50
Total 1920
If I went for bike carbs AND made my own sump I reckon you could get that down to around £1300.
Duratec Engine 300
Sump 150
Cable Bellhousing 200
ST150 Flywheel 50
Clutch VCK726 50
Starter Motor 50
Clutch Cable Use exisiting 1.3 capri
Clutch Arm Using existing
Release Bearing Use existing
Bike Carbs 100
Manifold for TBs (fab) 50
Air Filter Use Exisitng
Modify exisitng Pinto exhaust 50
Megajolt Use existing
Fuel Tank Use exisitng
Fule Pump & Regulator 100
EGR Blanking Plate Make
Engine Mount Arms Make
Engine Mount Rubbers 40
Small Alternator 50
Spigot Bearing 15
Mechanical Thermostat 40
Cooling System Mods 50
Total 1295
We did ours several years back for about £1200 - and that was paying £300 for a 2.3 engine (that was a bargain) so I think you are about right as ours
is bike carb'd (which saves you a few hundred in management, fuel system hardware and mapping).
That was a DIY gated and baffled sump also - fair few hours but saves a lot of money.
On Bogg Bros rollers it was doing 165bhp at the wheels. Thats a standard 2.3 on 40mm ZX9R carbs, pinto 4-1 manifold and a an aftermarket light weight
flywheel. How accurate the rollers are, well who knows but it drives really well and there's not much on track that it cant keep with. I suspect
larger carbs would open the top end up a bit on a 2.3 (work in progress!).
I was thinking about doing this to my old Sylva Striker last year. With some DIY on sumps, exhaust etc I thought it would cost about £2k...with carbs
the real saving was only £200-£300 and I just know I would forever be kicking myself if I went down that route just to save a few hundred pounds 
I am now not going the route of converting my old Striker and I am building Clangers Duratec car instead (I just fancied starting from scratch and
having IRS). My RAW Striker has an ST150 engine...you do get more for the money if you hold out for one of them as a starting point i.e. solid
flywheel, starter fits, EGR blanked off and the 'piece de resistance'...it has the high port head which according to SBD is worth 10-15bhp
more on a like-for-like build 
I was thinking of making composite carbon/aramid sumps for this, based on the flak-monkey sump (I've made a couple of them, and one canted at 10
degrees as well).
If there's enough interest, I'll work up a batch - I'm definitely doing one for my duratec (currently on a flak sump, welded in
stainless steel).
quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
I was thinking of making composite carbon/aramid sumps for this, based on the flak-monkey sump (I've made a couple of them, and one canted at 10 degrees as well).
If there's enough interest, I'll work up a batch - I'm definitely doing one for my duratec (currently on a flak sump, welded in stainless steel).
The layup I'm thinking of is
quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
currently on a flak sump, welded in stainless steel...
This sump will radiate less heat than an ally-steel sump so you will need an adequate oil cooler...
Furyrebuild....thanks for the extra info.
I want to use the Modeen oil cooler I already have and not try and squeeze an oil cooler into an already tight fitting nose cone on the Striker. I can
get a shortened ally sump for £324 (if I was feeling rich) so I will either stick with that or get a welder friend to Tig me up a mild steel sump
Now if you could do a tarty CF low profile cam cover for the Duratec I think more people would be up for that As far as I can see the only option
currently for this is the Raceline one at circa £350 
Well, you won't go wrong with the Flak sump, and it's a good design, quite sane to fabricate. If you have access to a CNC press brake then I
would advocate revisiting the design to do some of the welds with bent steel rather than two pieces welded together - just a lot quicker - I tigged
mine and it's a little timetaking because you have to weld an inch and let cool to be sure you don't warp the mating flange.
I'm obsessing about removing weight from my fury, so for me this is an easy 3kg to remove.
I had my eye on CF top covers (not the black one, but the ally top cover) and I've seen them for £500. I haven't decided on a design yet
because it will need to be quite strong. what's more, the ally cover to make the first part from will need to be sacrificial - the cover is
finished as it was sand-cast and this won't do for the chap aspiring for a visually pleasing finish. It will need filling and polishing first.
From that, there's no going back
good questions.
I chose stainless because it produces really nice welds and because it won't rust. It requires a little more patience when welding though because
it will warp that much more readily.
Powder is basically an epoxy plastic (apologies if I'm handing you eggs to suck) so that will insulate somewhat. Anyone running an engine that is
at all serious will also run an oil-cooler; I think I should have been a little more clear that you would need one, and I expect most people in this
game to have one. If you fitted a carbon sump and found temps ran a little higher, then an extra couple of rows would be enough. I agree the weight of
fitting an oil-cooling setup where non existed before would negate the weight savings of a CF/aramid sump.
quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
currently on a flak sump, welded in stainless steel...
This sump will radiate less heat than an ally-steel sump so you will need an adequate oil cooler...
I guess it all comes down to how much of an issue cooling the oil is on a duratec, but my first thoughts are:
- if cooling the oil is an issue why would you use stainless steel ?
even mild steel is a significantly better thermal conductor, and while I'm sure that paint / powder coat will have an impact on this I can't imagine it would make it any worse than stainless...
- if your sump saves you 3kg, how much weight does the oil cooler add back in ?
i accept that this is meaningless if you need the oil cooler already, unless it means you need an even bigger one...
With regards to duratec engines, is there a particular version that is the better option? I know there's a choice of plastic cam covers from later models as opposed to the aluminium cover on the old ones! But is there a better version?
Fiesta ST150 for the reasons listed above
On the subject of nice rocker covers for the Duratec, I found this the other day on this
nice build thread
Description
Do all fiesta ST heads feature the high ports?
quote:
Originally posted by edthedrummer
Do all fiesta ST heads feature the high ports?
quote:
Originally posted by Mr C
quote:
Originally posted by edthedrummer
Do all fiesta ST heads feature the high ports?
Little bit of info here SBD with the serial numbers to look out for. My understanding is that all ST150's have hi ports though they may be available from other models.
I'm currently putting together a Duratec and opted for the raceline sump (£500) nice piece of kit though the dipstick tube is extra. The ST150 comes with a mechanical thermostat, I opted to replace it with the SBD supplied one as it has one less inlet so cuts down on pipework etc.
I'd recommend Newman Cams as well, great price and service.
I spoke to a number of specialists including raceline and TTS they do not support the use of ARP bolts (either mains or Head studs for this engine as the clamping pressure is too great for the alloy block and the studs don't allow even metal expansion due to their different properties. this has resulted in a distorted block on at least one occasion.
Decided to save my money on ITB's and bought a Caterham plenum with a 70mm throttle body instead though I ended up buying a supercharger for it.
I think its been said here really, most articles and forums suggest that if you are looking for value for money horsepower, bolt throttle bodies and an aftermarket ecu, along with stage 2 or so cams, just be careful of the amount of lift and valve to piston clearance. Doing that you should get a good 200bhp all day. I just got a bit carried away
All the above imo, all the best with the conversion.
[Edited on 25/1/14 by Mr C]
[Edited on 25/1/14 by Mr C]
[Edited on 25/1/14 by Mr C]
Hi a very well known and trusted engine tuner tells me he has not got any more power out of the high port head he has done a lot of work on them he
says that some more power can be had from the exhaust side bot will need to weld some more meat into it to machine them better this is still on going
on.
He did all the maching on our race 2.3 and it is a engine with many wins.
All i am saying is dont spend a lot of money on a high port head
Cheers ALI
My understanding is the hi port head is a better starting point especially if you don't want to do any machining etc, ultimately with machining and modding similar power can be had from a lo port head, just a bit more hassle and money.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr C
My understanding is the hi port head is a better starting point especially if you don't want to do any machining etc, ultimately