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Zetec silver top to black top
Plunky - 14/4/14 at 04:42 PM

Hi everyone,

Currently running a zetec silver top in my F27 with gsxr throttle bodies.

The engine has developed a knock so I'm looking to replace it.

Black top engines seem to be a lot more common and it would make sense to use a newer engine.

Can someone explain exactly what would be involved and what would need changing if I were to replace the silver top with the black top?

Cheers

Liam

r1_pete - 14/4/14 at 05:19 PM

Sump is different, you can fit the silvertop sump to the blacktop, to use the windage tray you need the silvertop main bolts from 2 and 4 mains, and 4 20mm spacers:
Phase 2 windage and pickup on
Phase 2 windage and pickup on

Water pump spins the opposite way a simple jockey wheel is easiest
Idler & Water Rail Bracket
Idler & Water Rail Bracket

Oil pump is inboard, so only the filter sticks out, so its a bit more compact.

Bottom hose will need tweaking.

Your existing flywheel, manifolds, etc will fit.

You may need to tweak engine mounts.

Plunky - 14/4/14 at 07:09 PM

Thanks for that info!

Have you got any more detail on the jockey wheel for the water pump?

I take it the throttle bodies will be a straight fit?

r1_pete - 14/4/14 at 07:51 PM

Sorry I've no more pics, I did it all about 6 years ago putting the zetec in an MGB.

I think Burton do one, and I copied theirs with an additional support up the side which you can see in the picture. The pulley was a modern beetle alternator pulley, machined out to take 2 high speed bearings.

r1_pete - 14/4/14 at 07:57 PM

found this one
engine 1
engine 1

I also milled the original engine mounts off the timing belt cover.

[Edited on 14/4/14 by r1_pete]

Plunky - 14/4/14 at 08:38 PM

Isn't there a reverse impeller thing you can buy? So no need to add the extra jockey wheel? Just something I have briefly read

big_wasa - 14/4/14 at 08:51 PM

There was but it's sold as just a cast alloy impeller that you have to fit to a pump your self.

My effort.


Plunky - 14/4/14 at 09:07 PM

It terms of mounting, is there much difference? Could I use my current mounts and slightly adjust them? Any more detail on this?

Paul Turner - 15/4/14 at 08:05 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Plunky
It terms of mounting, is there much difference? Could I use my current mounts and slightly adjust them? Any more detail on this?


Drivers side fitted strait on, passenger side needed a bit of adjustment.

Flywheel and manifolds direct fit.

Different water pump location meant a few hoses needed. Took the opportunity to change to silicone from Performance Silicone Hose, all made to my spec, next day service.

Used Scholar kit to fit Silvertop sump and windage tray, about £16 posted. Had to modify pick up slightly.

Used Raceline kit for water pump drive, not cheap but worked out of box.

Used Silvertop thermostat housing, Blacktop one has no tappings for temp sender and ECU sender so useless.

Alternator mount needed some small changes.

Slight downside was I could not keep the front covers on, engine was too high for my nosecone/bonnet. Put perforated tray under front of car to keep any wayward stones out. Upside was I could use the nice alloy Silvertop cam cover (direct fit) instead of the nasty plastic Blacktop one.

Map needed a tweek for fueling since the Blacktop head has slightly bigger valves and better gas flow as standard.

[img]
[/img]

Plunky - 15/4/14 at 12:29 PM

Thanks very much!

very useful info!

for the waterpump... did you use the following from raceline?

http://www.raceline.co.uk/products/part_section.asp?SectionID=39&CategoryID=2

Paul Turner - 15/4/14 at 12:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Plunky
Thanks very much!

very useful info!

for the waterpump... did you use the following from raceline?

http://www.raceline.co.uk/products/part_section.asp?SectionID=39&CategoryID=2


No. That is an Escort Silvertop water pump that you fit to 1.8 and 2.0 Mondeo engines.

This is what you need for a Blacktop.

http://www.raceline.co.uk/products/part_section.asp?SectionID=60&CategoryID=4

But it can only be used with the front covers removed.

With covers fitted you need the Dunnell type.

http://www.dunnellengines.com/zetec_components.php?partno=RMP1480

[Edited on 15/4/14 by Paul Turner]

r1_pete - 15/4/14 at 02:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
This is what you need for a Blacktop.

http://www.raceline.co.uk/products/part_section.asp?SectionID=60&CategoryID=4

But it can only be used with the front covers removed.


[Edited on 15/4/14 by Paul Turner]



Thats why I cut the original engine mounts off my Blacktop, and milled it flat, but it looks like the pulley I took my locost copy from.

Plunky - 7/5/14 at 12:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
quote:
Originally posted by Plunky
It terms of mounting, is there much difference? Could I use my current mounts and slightly adjust them? Any more detail on this?


Drivers side fitted strait on, passenger side needed a bit of adjustment.

Flywheel and manifolds direct fit.

Different water pump location meant a few hoses needed. Took the opportunity to change to silicone from Performance Silicone Hose, all made to my spec, next day service.

Used Scholar kit to fit Silvertop sump and windage tray, about £16 posted. Had to modify pick up slightly.

Used Raceline kit for water pump drive, not cheap but worked out of box.

Used Silvertop thermostat housing, Blacktop one has no tappings for temp sender and ECU sender so useless.

Alternator mount needed some small changes.

Slight downside was I could not keep the front covers on, engine was too high for my nosecone/bonnet. Put perforated tray under front of car to keep any wayward stones out. Upside was I could use the nice alloy Silvertop cam cover (direct fit) instead of the nasty plastic Blacktop one.

Map needed a tweek for fueling since the Blacktop head has slightly bigger valves and better gas flow as standard.

[img]
[/img]



How much adjustment to the pas side mount?

I have trial fitted the mounts up to the engine and they seem to fit, I assume it will be slightly out of line when put into the engine bay though?

Paul Turner - 7/5/14 at 01:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Plunky
How much adjustment to the pas side mount?

I have trial fitted the mounts up to the engine and they seem to fit, I assume it will be slightly out of line when put into the engine bay though?


It all depends on your mounts and which lugs in the block they use.

As I said the drivers side was perfect but on the passenger side although the lower 2 bolts fitted straight in the upper bolt was probably 3/4" off the lug. Left the mount as it was and welded another piece of metal on to line up with the lug on the Blacktop. That way the mount would work on either a Silvertop or Blacktop.

It all lined up perfectly.

Plunky - 7/5/14 at 02:47 PM

Oh I see, I am hoping I might get away with it then!

Just waiting on a new clutch then I can start putting it all back together again!