Hi I've just bought an engineless Eagle RV - a Jeep Wrangler replica.

As it's engineless I'd like to fit a reasonably modern diesel into it. It's Sierra based and of course it's RWD.
What do people recommend Diesel Engine&Transmission - wise?

I'd prefer something reasonably car like so I'm hesitant to go for a Transit setup and was thinking of a mondeo diesel/type 9/MT75 (or even automatic) - but I dont know if those would match up at the bell housing. There is also I believe a Peugeot based XUD engine - but the same transmission question applies

Ideas appreciated

Regards
Steve Pegrum

[Edited on 3/6/14 by spegru]

Got to be worth looking at a BMW or Merc as a donor for a ready made diesel RWD set up hasn't it?

Grab an Audi/VW 3.0L V6 TDI engine and auto box That'd be a bucket of giggles :p

Good ideas already! within minutes of posting
Merc I hadnt thought of at all - d'oh!
Audi is FWD though?

How complicated do you want to make it?

The obvious choice would be a Sierra diesel engine. Not too complicated, straight forward fit and reasonably reliable.

Or a modern common rail engine that will require all sorts of things done to mechanically fit it in the vehicle and all the complication of getting the electronics to work right.

Of course as simple as possible, but I was hoping for something more modern than a sierra?
I can do simple stuff like engine mountings, exhausts & prop shafts
Does the Duratorq engine have the same compatible bell housing config as the zetec petrol?

Having gone through the process of getting a modern common rail diesel to work in a kit car, i would recommend not bothering unless you really want to.

Any engine with a mechanical injection pump will be simple to wire up. The VW PD engines are also fairly straightforward - maybe the 1.9 tdi from a 2002 ish Passat would be a good choice, as its already an inline setup.

have no idea about gearboxes....

Sierra diesel engine would be easiest if you already have the gearbox/prop sorted, although I know little about their tuning potential etc. Never seen a diesel sierra in the scrapyard before, I see at least 10 XUD powered pugs/citroens every time i'm in there. That's the route I went with an LDV pilot gearbox. Very simple, if you want to go that route I'd be happy to answer any questions. Here's my XUD powered kit:



[Edited on 3-6-2014 by Benzine]

What diesel was used in the Omega? that was RWD as standard so might be a bit easier to convert.

Wiki tells me its the X20DTH or X25TD depending on what flavour you're after.

quote:

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Originally posted by Norfolkluegojnr
What diesel was used in the Omega? that was RWD as standard so might be a bit easier to convert.

Wiki tells me its the X20DTH or X25TD depending on what flavour you're after.

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This takes me back to the infamous Wiesel - a westfield demo car with a transit diesel in it IIRC, think the date was mid 80's.

Edit - not sure if link works but - http://westfield-world.com/pics_paulr.html

One of the magazines in the early 2000's (CCC or PPC I think) was doing a series of articles about a guy putting a 1.9 TDI in a seven. There are 1.8T > Type 9 bell housings about if the 1.9 TDI is the same bolt pattern.

edit - found this - http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=247471

One of the early 320D M47D20 engine (non common rail) with manual gearbox may be the best choice if not going for the sierra, plenty about.

Or if you do not need the speed then a landy defender 2.2/2,5l engines may be interesting and pretty well bomb proof and could possibly fit a rover rwd gearbox (need to look that up but wiki says LT77 will fit).

Good luck with the hunt.

[Edited on 3/6/14 by Ugg10]

I've got a E36 3 series 318 tds sat about that I'm going to be breaking in the near future I think it's a 1.7 turbo diesel but quite low tech I would have thought but already with a rwd box already on it. I think the omegas where a 2.5 bmw Diesel engine, they put them in range rovers aswell so possibly would mate to a R380 box?

Nobody has asked why you would want to do this?

Unless you are some sort of masochist you aren't going to be doing a lot of miles in the car so why do you need a smelly noisy diesel?

They are tricky to get installed and working and there isn't a huge amount of knowledge on how to do it.

If you want some fun then a rover v8 or something would be good. loads of info out there and it would suit the car well.

quote:

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Nobody has asked why you would want to do this?

Unless you are some sort of masochist you aren't going to be doing a lot of miles in the car so why do you need a smelly noisy diesel?

They are tricky to get installed and working and there isn't a huge amount of knowledge on how to do it.

If you want some fun then a rover v8 or something would be good. loads of info out there and it would suit the car well.

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Look at vans, LDV/daf had 200tdi and r390 gearbox, cheap for bits and mechanical running.

Thanks everyone.
As to the 'why' it's because its a jeep and I want to tow with it and arn't interested in speed (for this car anyway)
Weirdly I've just been to see what I bought and heard it previously had a Rover V8 in it! But that's not for me on this project

From the above it looks like LDV pilot engine (which is I think a Ford MT75 with a specific bell housing, plus XUD engine
I like the Seven!
Also prices and availability look pretty good

More comments please!

spegru

quote:

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Originally posted by Benzine
Sierra diesel engine would be easiest if you already have the gearbox/prop sorted, although I know little about their tuning potential etc. Never seen a diesel sierra in the scrapyard before, I see at least 10 XUD powered pugs/citroens every time i'm in there. That's the route I went with an LDV pilot gearbox. Very simple, if you want to go that route I'd be happy to answer any questions. Here's my XUD powered kit:



[Edited on 3-6-2014 by Benzine]

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Hang on a sec. My ebay trawling reveals a Pilot gearbox called R380.

LDV/PILOT PEUGEOT DIESEL 1.9 ENGINE R380 5 SPEED GEARBOX&apos'S 1995- 2005

Isn't that the Rover unit? not Ford MT75? I must be a bit confused somewhere about that

If so it could be ideal to replace a removed Rover v8/ Gearbox prop shaft that I also have

Sorry, yes r380 as fitted in landrovers without the transfer box, the 200tdi is a 2.5litre motor.

If that fits a PUG motor then a scrap 306 could provide a nice TD engine with minimal wiring

[Edited on 3/6/14 by mark chandler]

quote:

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Originally posted by spegru
That looks brilliant. Looks like the only silencer you have is the turbo itself?

So what was involved in getting that lot to work? Would I be right in thinking the LDV pilot engine/gearbox were from the same vehicle? or at least that the XUD is also used in the pilot?

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Well, I'm a fan of diesels as can be seen elsewhere on here. I think if the op wants diesel then BMW or Jaguar are the way to go - and as it's going into an Eagle RV that I'm assuming has already been on the road, I'd suggest buying a complete donor and using as much as poss of the running gear:- rear end, modded prop, gearbox, engine, ecu, loom and instruments. That way, the loom can be trimmed out of non essentials like windows etc and all should be grand :d

Simple, just do the whole job properly.

ATB

Simon

quote:

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Originally posted by Norfolkluegojnr
What diesel was used in the Omega? that was RWD as standard so might be a bit easier to convert.

Wiki tells me its the X20DTH or X25TD depending on what flavour you're after.

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quote:

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Originally posted by dinosaurjuice
Having gone through the process of getting a modern common rail diesel to work in a kit car, i would recommend not bothering unless you really want to.

Any engine with a mechanical injection pump will be simple to wire up. The VW PD engines are also fairly straightforward - maybe the 1.9 tdi from a 2002 ish Passat would be a good choice, as its already an inline setup.

have no idea about gearboxes....

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quote:

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Originally posted by spegru

quote:

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Originally posted by dinosaurjuice
Having gone through the process of getting a modern common rail diesel to work in a kit car, i would recommend not bothering unless you really want to.

Any engine with a mechanical injection pump will be simple to wire up. The VW PD engines are also fairly straightforward - maybe the 1.9 tdi from a 2002 ish Passat would be a good choice, as its already an inline setup.

have no idea about gearboxes....

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Still thinking about this and wondering if XUD is powerful enough considering you can easily get 130 BHP mondeo engines. I've also done a RWD Zetec using factory injection so complexity is not that scary. Since you've done a modern common rail diesel could you give a few more details?

s

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quote:

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Originally posted by dinosaurjuice
Having gone through the process of getting a modern common rail diesel to work in a kit car, i would recommend not bothering unless you really want to.

Any engine with a mechanical injection pump will be simple to wire up. The VW PD engines are also fairly straightforward - maybe the 1.9 tdi from a 2002 ish Passat would be a good choice, as its already an inline setup.

have no idea about gearboxes....

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quote:

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Originally posted by stevebubs

quote:

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Originally posted by Norfolkluegojnr
What diesel was used in the Omega? that was RWD as standard so might be a bit easier to convert.

Wiki tells me its the X20DTH or X25TD depending on what flavour you're after.

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Omega had a BMW engine.

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what type of rv eagle is it? cortina, sierra, 4x4 baesed ?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/29124231@N06/14325175536/
Ldv r380 gearbox fitted to a cortina based rv eagle .the standard ldv stick reaches to the windscreen.
this gearbox uses a hydralic clutch, i cant see an easy way to fit a slave cylinder to a cortina pedal box.
also note the position of the original cortina gearstick hole.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/29124231@N06/14353874355/
the xud turbo (no ecu) and the mk1 & 2 mondeo 1.8 turbo diesels (ecu) have their turbos on the right hand side.
this brings the turbo close to the steering shaft.
both engines standard sumps are not rwd cross member frendly.
this wont be problem in an eagle.
(the xud has its oil pump in the sump so little scope for reshaping)

Well I've gone and done it.
I chose a Mondeo 2.0 TDCI turbodiesel

To this I have added a RWD Transit AKA MT75 gearbox that fits perfectly
I've even hung it all together inside the Eagle RV engine bay and it looks OK

I just need to sort
Engine mountings (welding needed methinks)
Prop shaft
Exhaust
And that tricky ECU business. Still, Ive done a RWD Zetec using factory ECU so I'm hoping this works in a similar-ish way

Nice one, is that the 130 Hp engine?

Sounds like a cracking project and both usable and decently quick (for an eagle), should be quick.

For £350 you can chip it and get another 35hp. That would be very tempting.

quote:

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Originally posted by redscamp
what type of rv eagle is it? cortina, sierra, 4x4 baesed ?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/29124231@N06/14325175536/
Ldv r380 gearbox fitted to a cortina based rv eagle .the standard ldv stick reaches to the windscreen.
this gearbox uses a hydralic clutch, i cant see an easy way to fit a slave cylinder to a cortina pedal box.
also note the position of the original cortina gearstick hole.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/29124231@N06/14353874355/
the xud turbo (no ecu) and the mk1 & 2 mondeo 1.8 turbo diesels (ecu) have their turbos on the right hand side.
this brings the turbo close to the steering shaft.
both engines standard sumps are not rwd cross member frendly.
this wont be problem in an eagle.
(the xud has its oil pump in the sump so little scope for reshaping)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ugg10
Nice one, is that the 130 Hp engine?

Sounds like a cracking project and both usable and decently quick (for an eagle), should be quick.

For £350 you can chip it and get another 35hp. That would be very tempting.

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quote:

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Originally posted by spegru

quote:

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Originally posted by redscamp

Is there any way to upload pictures on this site? I can't see one....

[Edited on 12/6/14 by spegru]

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Easiest way is to use a photo sharing site like Flickr (or photobucket) and then cut an paste the BBCODE link to the picture in the text edit window (usually in the extended share options).

I use Flickr which is free, has 1Tb of JPEG and small movie (very limited) storage, gives you control over access (public, friends and no-one) and you can limit the picture size people who have access can download. I have approx 20k photos on there and have only use about 8% of my allocation !

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DW100 - 12/6/14 at 11:28 AM

Try to use as many components for the same vehicle as possible.

Injectors will be coded to the ECU etc.

Try to replicate the fuel system as best you can with in tank pump filters, fuel heater, cooler, filter and returns etc.

Fuel quality and filtering will be critical to reliability.

Things like road speed signal may be more difficult as it probably comes from the ABS via CAN network

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Benzine - 12/6/14 at 07:38 PM

Nice to hear you've got an engine/box sorted so fast. This thread needs pics

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spegru - 13/6/14 at 11:41 AM

I think a problem has just emerged.
The reason for choosing a transit box was for additional certainty that the bellhousing would match
However it looks like I may have a problem with the gear lever since that is about a third of the way up from the tail of the gbox rather than being on an extension like most other MT75. From Pics on the web it looks like the castings are different.

Any ideas? Otherwise the gear lever will be under the windscreen!

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spegru - 13/6/14 at 01:06 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by spegru
I think a problem has just emerged.
The reason for choosing a transit box was for additional certainty that the bellhousing would match
However it looks like I may have a problem with the gear lever since that is about a third of the way up from the tail of the gbox rather than being on an extension like most other MT75. From Pics on the web it looks like the castings are different.

Any ideas? Otherwise the gear lever will be under the windscreen!

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Ah no! Comes of looking at internet pics too much instead of looking in the garage!
In fact mine has a very short extension piece to the back of the gbox.

It's not like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/360615448806?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla &crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108&ff19=0

It's like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Transit-2000-2006-2-4-TDCi-5speed-MT75-3-bolt-gearbox-12-months-guarantee-/121178446983?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarPar ts_SM&hash=item1c36cc5c87

Shows there are some others out there that may be less suitable. I was lucky to get the right one since I had no idea about that

So I guess mine is more like a 'normal' one and perhaps I need to get a sierra extension piece - unless someone has a better suggestion.......

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spegru - 18/5/15 at 11:37 AM

The project has languished on the drive for a few months so I need to get going with it again.
So the engine/ box is mounted and having fitted a Sierra gearl lever extension instead of the short transit one I even have a geal lever coming out in the right place
So my next trick will be to get it running.
Since I've gone the Ford ECU route on our Zetec Dutton I've been hoping it will be similar. 48 wires come out of the engine loom. You can guess a few eg 12v permanent, 12v constant, Earth, Rev Counter, Key Chip detector (x4), glow plug working, Oil Pressure warning, Temp Guage etc etc and there there are quite a few of those that match colours with the Zetec but anyway Ive now ordred a Mondo TDCI Haynes Manual for the wiring diagrams to reduce the uncertainty/guessing.
If it works out I might even gues a prop shaft!

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