Hi all just after advice on what to check/replace first.
This time last year I started having problems with the car not starting after getting hot. I thought that the battery might be old and buggered so I
bought another battery only this time I decided to go with the small bike battery from rmd.
Yesterday I took the car out and it started fine but drove it about a mile turned it off and it wouldn't turn back on. It sounds like the battery
hasn't got enough power but surely that's not right.
Anyway my friend came with jump leads and I was on my way, drove it around 15 miles and stalled at a round about, you guessed it, it wouldn't
start. Pushed it round the corner and tried again and it did start. Drove another mile to my house turned it off and again wouldn't start again.
Parked it in the garage over night and went this morning to start it and it did start first time.
Does this indicate that the battery itself is fine?
I had exactly the same issues so I changed battery to one with twice the cranking amp (600) and now have no problems.
[Edited on 24/7/14 by leon51274]
Thanks I was thinking battery until it turned over this morning straight away. Surely if the battery was the issue it would always have trouble starting, hot or cold.
Mine would start no problem when cold but then as soon as it got hot it just didn't want to know.
Sounds like exactly the same issue then. Does anyone know the cranking amp of the rmd 25 battery?
Also forgot to mention that when my friend went to jump start me it still wouldn't turn over until he switch his engine on.
This may help. The starter motor is covered near the bottom of the page.
http://www.w8ji.com/battery_and_charging_system.htm
My Zetec engined car will often turn over slower or hesitate before turning over properly when hot. It is fine when cold. I think it is to do with the
starter getting hot as it is close to the exhaust.
I'm surmising that the resistance in the starter increases when hot an so takes a bit more power to get it going. I haven't proved this is
the case yet though.
Could yours be a similar issue?
I had a hot-start issue, replacing the old started for a new one cured it and it started twice as faster as it ever did before on the old motor.
It's also noting that, as you said "this time last year" that maybe your air/coolant compensation maps on your car need tweaking for
the hotter weather? it could be doing something special with the ignition advance or fuelling if they're not setup correctly.
Thanks for all your help guys. I've just spent the last few hours removing my starter and it was an absolute pain. I can't see a model
number on it but can see valeo. Does anyone recognise what car this starter is from and also does it look in bad shape?
The solenoid connections look a bit rusty.
If it is on a Blacktop is should be this one for a 1.8CVH:
Link
This is what I have on my Blacktop. Hard to tell but looks the same as yours in the pics.
Stu
It could be your cranking timing is too advanced, a too early spark will try and push the piston back down against the starter, you dont say whether
your distributer or less, if its MJLJ Squirt etc. back off the cranking advance a bit, if its dizzy, try backing it off a little.
It doesn't happen when its cold because, atomization is not as effective at the low temperature, so the burn rate of the mixture is slower, and
the starter can overcome the resistance, when hot the engine is much more efficient, hence the problem.
Same with my westfield, backed off cranking timing from 10° to 0° and the hot start thing went away immediately.
Can't remember if I've tried that or not!
I'll fire up the laptop and have a play with the MJ at the weekend!
I wish I could do what you've mentioned but I wouldn't even know where to start 
What engine are you running?
It's a 2ltr blacktop with omex 500
Looks like page 21 here would be a good place to start. Omex 500
The software is on the OMEX website.
Stu
Thanks for the info stu but I wouldn't dare start messing with it myself as I will probably mess it up. Need to get it tuned anyway to try and
get the best out of the supercharger but first need to sort this starting issue.
I've got a feeling it's the battery or starter. I managed to get a video of it starting when cold and one where it wouldn't start after
a run. Still not sure if it's the starter that goes faulty when hot or the battery not having enough power to give the starter (but somehow it
does when cold)
Quick question, if the starter is buggered will it still turn when jumped off another car? Because when this hot start issue happens I get jumped by a friend
Exactly what mine was like. First rotation is fast until it fires, which kicks back and stops it turning over. Then it repeats. Two batteries in parallel is a way round the problem, as is a battery from a tractor. Neither fix the actual problem...
had this problem myself and in the end fitted a high torque starter and have never looked back, wont use anything else now even on my latest little
1300 tuned triumph project. Remember that when cold the compression will be lower than when fully warmed up as everything expands. if you do a cold
then a hot compression test you should see a marked rise in compression in the warmed up reading. Hence it starts alright cold as the starter has less
compression working against it. Brise and the likes do hi torque geared starters, they are not cheap but will allow you to keep using a smaller
battery and will ensure that the car stats every time.
HTH
So you guys reckon it's definitely the starter that's causing the issues not the battery?
Why would the starter still work when using jump leads from another car if it was faulty?
I did try to start it this morning but wouldn't start but that could be that I drained the battery last night trying so many times.
No.
I think the ignition is too far advanced when cranking. Certainly sounds like that in the video. The engine is trying to fire AGAINST the direction of
rotation and is too much for the starter/battery combination to overcome. The situation is worse when it's hot as there's better compression
(and possibly different ignition mapping). Connecting another battery on just gives a few more cranking amps to overcome the effect.
So will I be ok buying a larger cca battery (say 500-600) or should I stick to what I have and change the cranking timing to 0'
A bigger battery would help, as would a high torque starter but neither are fixing the fault. Back the cranking advance off. If it fixes the problem, job done.
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
A bigger battery would help, as would a high torque starter but neither are fixing the fault. Back the cranking advance off. If it fixes the problem, job done.
Very true, unfortunately I don't have a laptop with the right port.
Reading a lot of posts on this forum it seems a lot of people have had to change to a high torque starter.
What do you need a Serial Port?? if so, a USB to Serial adapter based on the Prolific or FTDI chipset will do the job, the cheapo adapters don't seem to work with engine management systems.
quote:
Originally posted by Sierra
Very true, unfortunately I don't have a laptop with the right port.
Reading a lot of posts on this forum it seems a lot of people have had to change to a high torque starter.
Haha well put. I'm going to give it a go a set it to 0' and see what happens
Quick update, I phoned omex on advice on the cranking advance and they explained that the engine isint turning over enough for the ecu to even begin
to work. I don't really understand any of it but I went and bought an edge high torque starter and so far so good.
Next step is to take it to the rolling road for a tune up. Options so far are
Power engineering
TTS performance
Northampton motorsport
Wow thats some statement from Omex, if the ECU isn't working at cranking speed what is firing the injectors, and sparks??
The ECU has a set of parameters it uses at cranking speed to start the engine, and even before cranking starts e.g. fuel pump prime, you have been
seriously mis informed.