Hi all, I'm currently not in a position to start the full build of my next kit, however I'm in a position to start collecting bits and possibly source the engine.

Now I know which car I will be building, and I know it's going to be a CEC and I know I want 200bhp. my 2 choices are s2000 or duratec.

I like the duratec engine but to get to my target bhp I will need ITBs and probably some cams, aftermarket ecu, then there's getting a box to suit and a bell housing etc and then theres the management to run it all.

This is the point in my thinking I return to the s2k lump. Ok it might be a 2.5k outlay for an engine and box but it's 240bhp out the box and only management required. The flip side being if I blow an engine it's a much bigger outlay to fix.

So which is the best overall package when you consider all the factors? Weight, performance, price, ease of install etc?

So I'm throwing it open to the LCB collective for your thoughts and opinions to help me make my mind up?

Cheers
Steve

If you have the time you'll get your engine,box,diff,ecu,loom,ignition etc for nothing!
Search copart or ebay and get a crashed damaged s2000. Make sure you get one where the valuable parts are still intact and in good order.
You'd pick up a good low mileage car for £2500 then just strip it down.

I'm no where near my next build as I can't be arsed to finish the one I'm on ATM...

However I've deciced the engine is the 225 BAM engine from a TT or Cupra. This gives 225 bhp as standard and there's plenty of places that can get it up to 270 plus a new turbo and fancy intercooler makes it over 300....

Good luck!

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Originally posted by coozer
I'm no where near my next build as I can't be arsed to finish the one I'm on ATM...

However I've deciced the engine is the 225 BAM engine from a TT or Cupra. This gives 225 bhp as standard and there's plenty of places that can get it up to 270 plus a new turbo and fancy intercooler makes it over 300....

Good luck!

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You will do a Duratec install and get 200hp for £1500.00

Vauxhall turbo engine ?

Mines running 272bhp and 309ftlb and it's pretty much standard.

Alloy belhousing and a type 9 or omega box.

Easily do that for £1500

BMW 320D

Has all the parts you need (apart from remap) and you'll get 45 mpg



ATB

Simon

I would rather keep the engine as N/A to be honest. As much as I love a turbo just not for me in a 7.

Dan. That was my first thought to break an s2000 however at present I don't have the space to house a car just enough to start tinkering with an engine as I'm getting bored with no car related project.

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Originally posted by sdh2903 I'm getting bored with no car related project.

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Originally posted by big-vee-twin
You will do a Duratec install and get 200hp for £1500.00

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SBD have some info - http://www.sbdev.co.uk/History_files/History_The200Club.htm

and some specs from Vulcan http://www.vulcanengines.com/2L_I4_duratec.htm

Also worthy of consideration is the Toyota/Lexus Altezza RS200 variant of the 3SGE engine. Dual VVTi, 210hp, six speed box.
Its a tall engine though as is the S2000.
And bang on the money...

TOYOTA ALTEZZA RS200 2.0 VVTI BEAMS 3SGE ENGINE &' 6 SPD GEARBOX AE86 DRIFT DONOR

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Originally posted by SPYDER
Also worthy of consideration is the Toyota/Lexus Altezza RS200 variant of the 3SGE engine. Dual VVTi, 210hp, six speed box.
Its a tall engine though as is the S2000.
And bang on the money...

TOYOTA ALTEZZA RS200 2.0 VVTI BEAMS 3SGE ENGINE &' 6 SPD GEARBOX AE86 DRIFT DONOR

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Does it have to be NA? Saab 2.0 LPT gives 185bhp. I've a Hirsche ECU which takes it to 233bhp - smooth, very little lag etc.

Whole cars for £400+

How about going down the BMW straight 6 route? With a 2.8 engine you get 193 BHP as standard and an easy way to getting another 40BHP through remap and fitting the inlet manifold and TB from an M50. Engines and gearboxes are plentiful now on e-bay so are low cost, or you could buy a 328 or 528 and get your money back by selling the spares.

If you want to up the power again after a couple of years then its a straight swap for an M3 lump as the layout is the same.

Pretty sure he'll have considered have the BMW option (OP's previous was a GKD).

Regarding the S2K option: it's very heavy, expensive, and tricky electronically I believe. Revving to 9k is a nice trick though.

Yes it has to be n/a. It's going in a westfield chassis so I'm sticking to a 4cyl. The duratec and f20c will both fit the factory chassis without any chopping about. It's more about trying to decide which is the best overall package.

My original plan was to pick up an N4JB Duratec from a fiesta St and tinker with it and add the bodies and other goodies gradually while I get my garage built. But as I said when doing the sums the f20c keeps cropping up as it's ready to go. The down side is, there would be little tinkering to do.

Being in the middle of the prep for an engine swap (Pinto to Duratec) the most amunt of work/money seems to go into the ancillaries - manifolds, pipework, alternators, sumps etc so it is worth looking at how much you can reuse from the S2000 lump.

For the Duratec you are most likely to consider -
Sump
Thermostat
Belt & tensioner arrangement
Water rail (if close to bulkhead) may need to replace
Coil Pack - can reuse but is on back of head so may foul bulkhead (can be moved below inlet manifold.
Oil filter & position - will need a replacement/adaptor

Bear in mind if you can get an st150 engine or a post 2008 focus engine they have better heads that are good for another 10+bhp

In my case I am going for bike carbs as I have them on the Pinto - they may hold it back a little but FI is a future upgrade for me.

The duratec is a nice light engine and beautifully designed. There I also plenty of knowledge around and tuneability, while not cheap there are plenty of options from the UK and US.

While the ancillaries add to the cost of the initial setup - engines are cheap as chips and common so you can always pick up a spare or a project engine easily.

If you do things wisely like Andrew Jackson did with his install. The f20c honda has to be top of the list! As an engine it's hard to beat. Big revs,big power, sound awesome, reliable,has it's own 6 speed box and 4.1:1 diff, prop and half shafts can be modified etc
Might be chaper to buy a crash damaged one and rent a garage for 2 months whilst stripping it out! That way you can get your hands dirty and you'll still end up with a free drivetrain!
There's a guy who sprints an f20c westy in the wscc speed series. It's a well sorted car and very very quick!

Jaguar 3 litre V6? 240bhp, 220 torques.
I am fitting one in the MK. If you use the Getrag 221 gearbox= much cheapness, not that large and a pretty light install.
This guy has fitted one to a Westfield, although he went for the, almost, identical lower powered Duratec version, with a modified (expensive) Type 9 box.

Anyone watch the Yank car shows? Fast n Loud, Rods n Wheels etc...

Amazing how cheap brand new high bhp v8s they have over there....

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Originally posted by coozer
Anyone watch the Yank car shows? Fast n Loud, Rods n Wheels etc...

Amazing how cheap brand new high bhp v8s they have over there....

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How about the engine and gearbox from an RX8? Plenty of power and revs, and quite low and light.

Thought about a Toyota 2zz-ge engine, crashed celicas are really cheap and the 1.8l engine is 190bhp standard and is easy to get more out of and easily cope with 290bhp as that what they are in a lotus 211 that is a standard engine with a supercharger and intercooler set up

I'd give the Honda route some considerable thought. I'm currently building a duratec (rather, I have the bits in a cabinet awaiting a build) and then Honda was on my list.

I was initially put off by the higher cost of entry and VVT, etc, but attracted by the normally aspirated nature of it.

In hindsight, I think I'd sooner have gone for the Honda and then I could have just used the entire lump and shoved fuel in.

my uncle in law picked up an s2000 from the auctions, cat d (few dents to the rear quarter) £1600!!!
would be perfect for a kit, but hes got it on the road

A mate of mine also has a supercharged s2000, literally did nothing other than bolt on the charger and map it (the internals are all forged as standard so im told?), 450bhp with a fairly low boost pressure

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Originally posted by sdh2903
Yes it has to be n/a. It's going in a westfield chassis so I'm sticking to a 4cyl. The duratec and f20c will both fit the factory chassis without any chopping about. It's more about trying to decide which is the best overall package.

... The down side is, there would be little tinkering to do.

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