Get all,
I'm doing an engine conversion on a Mazda RX8 and do have a mock up 2.5L V6 that I plan on putting in but asked the question about the best way to get more power out of it, turbo, stroking it or supercharging it.
Someone mentioned about putting a 3.0L in as it would be a cheaper option. I measured some key points on a jag V6 that are critical on my build, the difference is next to nothing so when people say the klde engine is tiny, it's only millimetres different at key points. What I don't know is the bare weight of the duratec or jag V6 3.0L. The KL is 105kg bare, sump, manifolds, ignition, looms, pipe work the lot. Has anyone weighed their engine? I'm looking at a honda V6 3.0L as well. I want to make the right decision. The aim of the power range I would like is 240bhp to 275bhp, not 190bhp.


This klde is about to be weighed sitting on jacks without the sump, bare.



Bare klde engine.



klde rear



Jag V6 3.0L S-type



[Edited on 11/11/14 by KFC]

I weighed mine in at 140 kilos with some ancillaries, I have stripped the engine back now. If I weigh what I have taken off, then deduct from the 140, would that be OK for you?
To be honest, if the difference is, say, 20/30 kilos I think the 240bhp and 220ish torques would more than take care of it

I have weighed everything that I removed, the total was 16 kg = 124 kg
However, the engine still has the sump and lower injection manifold/fuel rail fitted, another 8/10 kg?
Looking at your photo of the KLDE, my AJ30 still has the cam chains and front cover fitted, although the cover is Magnesium, so not much weight there.

[Edited on 12-11-14 by 40inches]

quote:

---

Originally posted by 40inches
I have weighed everything that I removed, the total was 16 kg = 124 kg
However, the engine still has the sump and lower injection manifold/fuel rail fitted, another 8/10 kg?
Looking at your photo of the KLDE, my AJ30 still has the cam chains and front cover fitted, although the cover is Magnesium, so not much weight there.

[Edited on 12-11-14 by 40inches]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 40inches
I have weighed everything that I removed, the total was 16 kg = 124 kg
However, the engine still has the sump and lower injection manifold/fuel rail fitted, another 8/10 kg?
Looking at your photo of the KLDE, my AJ30 still has the cam chains and front cover fitted, although the cover is Magnesium, so not much weight there.

[Edited on 12-11-14 by 40inches]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by v8kid

quote:

---

Originally posted by 40inches
I have weighed everything that I removed, the total was 16 kg = 124 kg
However, the engine still has the sump and lower injection manifold/fuel rail fitted, another 8/10 kg?
Looking at your photo of the KLDE, my AJ30 still has the cam chains and front cover fitted, although the cover is Magnesium, so not much weight there.

[Edited on 12-11-14 by 40inches]

---

Plus the flywheel/flexplate weight to be deducted!

Not much difference in the weights really

Cheers!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 40inches
I weighed mine in at 140 kilos with some ancillaries, I have stripped the engine back now. If I weigh what I have taken off, then deduct from the 140, would that be OK for you?
To be honest, if the difference is, say, 20/30 kilos I think the 240bhp and 220ish torques would more than take care of it

---

Since you won't be wanting your underpowered KLDE any more, I'll give you a tenner to take it off your hands!

quote:

---

Originally posted by DIY Si
Since you won't be wanting your underpowered KLDE any more, I'll give you a tenner to take it off your hands!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by DIY Si
Since you won't be wanting your underpowered KLDE any more, I'll give you a tenner to take it off your hands!

---

What's wrong with the four holes just above?

quote:

---

Originally posted by v8kid
What's wrong with the four holes just above?

---

TBH it doesn't look like good engineering practice to have the engine mounts as low as you're proposing on the KLDE. I reckon you'll need an extra mount or 2 towards the top of the engine to stop it from trying to rip itself off its mounts
Personally I'd go Jag and make heavy steel adaptor plates (6mm+) that extend down to where you need them.

[Edited on 14/11/14 by Nickp]

[Edited on 14/11/14 by Nickp]

Not sure what you mean about the mounts, the standard Jag brackets are ally (light) and with the original hydraulic mounts are pretty low.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nickp
TBH it doesn't look like good engineering practice to have the engine mounts as low as you're proposing on the KLDE. I reckon you'll need an extra mount or 2 towards the top of the engine to stop it from trying to rip itself off its mounts
Personally I'd go Jag and make heavy steel adaptor plates (6mm+) that extend down to where you need them.

[Edited on 14/11/14 by Nickp]

[Edited on 14/11/14 by Nickp]

---

How steep are your planned mounts? Whilst not ideal, I had to fit my mounts roughly as low as yours, but mine are quite steep in an attempt to control the engine.





I also don't have much choice over where to fit the mounts, as I am rather limited on space in my Sprite. At least the KL has a good stiff block that can let you get away with something other than ideal for the mounts. Equally, I won't be too surprised if I have to fit another mount somewhere near the top of the block.

quote:

---

Originally posted by 40inches
Not sure what you mean about the mounts, the standard Jag brackets are ally (light) and with the original hydraulic mounts are pretty low.

---

Manifold from here, ebay

quote:

---

Originally posted by 40inches
Manifold from here, ebay

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by v8kid

quote:

---

Originally posted by 40inches
Manifold from here, ebay

---

Can't find it there how much was it?

Cheers!

---

Ha! You anticipated my next question my thoughts were similar.

1. Is the 2.5 manifold big enough (pipe diameter) for the 3.0 and are the exhaust ports the same size - I assume so

2. Are you going to be plumbing in an oil cooler? The jag has a thermostatically controlled one but that is when it is dragging a heavy body about - does it really need an oil cooler for a lighter car? I.E. Can i not bother with the oil cooler.

3. The mounting that's used as an oil filter connection has 3 bolts one of which appears to be the oil connection by the size of it ( I haven't taken it off yet) I planned to use one of the A/C mounting holes as 2 fixings seemed to be to be too few. Thoughts?

Cheers!

I think most transverse mounted engine converted to longitudinal you'll have problems. I have to remote mount my oil filter housing on the klde.
Right...... Garage time...

quote:

---

Originally posted by v8kid
Ha! You anticipated my next question my thoughts were similar.

1. Is the 2.5 manifold big enough (pipe diameter) for the 3.0 and are the exhaust ports the same size - I assume so

2. Are you going to be plumbing in an oil cooler? The jag has a thermostatically controlled one but that is when it is dragging a heavy body about - does it really need an oil cooler for a lighter car? I.E. Can i not bother with the oil cooler.

3. The mounting that's used as an oil filter connection has 3 bolts one of which appears to be the oil connection by the size of it ( I haven't taken it off yet) I planned to use one of the A/C mounting holes as 2 fixings seemed to be to be too few. Thoughts?

Cheers!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by DIY Si
How steep are your planned mounts? Whilst not ideal, I had to fit my mounts roughly as low as yours, but mine are quite steep in an attempt to control the engine.





I also don't have much choice over where to fit the mounts, as I am rather limited on space in my Sprite. At least the KL has a good stiff block that can let you get away with something other than ideal for the mounts. Equally, I won't be too surprised if I have to fit another mount somewhere near the top of the block.

---

If you have access to a cad system and can draw this up then I can recommend Lasermaster in Redruth to get it cut. I have access to autocad, this has a feature for importing images so for my mounts I scanned the card template part with a ruler in the image, cropped the image to a set dimension, imported it, scaled it and then drew around it. Just send of the dwg file, qoted in a couple of days, part arrived within the week. Great service.

Gearbox mount, two engine mount plates, two large washers (part of engine mount assembly), infill parts for exhaust/collector welding - 5mm mild steel



Inlet throttle body adapter plate - 10mm aluminium

Do you have to use the big ally blocks/mounts? Are they integral to the AV mount you have to use? If they can be replaced somehow you could use a mount shaped something like mine, but higher up on the block.

quote:

---

Originally posted by DIY Si
Do you have to use the big ally blocks/mounts? Are they integral to the AV mount you have to use? If they can be replaced somehow you could use a mount shaped something like mine, but higher up on the block.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 40inches
Good luck unscrewing the large banjo bolt on the engine mount. That is one tight mother

---

Given that you're looking at a plate on a mount onto an AV mount, I'd do away with all three and make something better/less complicated. Can the bit that bolts to the subframe be easily removed? If that were replaced with a poly bush type mount you'd get a better angle up to the block or maybe go higher up the block and still clear the column. The other option is to have something like the existing AV mount, but angled in towards the engine. That would give much better clearance and allow you to angle it up the block. It would also lessen the twisting motion put into the mounts as they are now as the force would go more directly into the rail rather than above it.

OK, it would mean the money you've spent so far is wasted unless you can sell the bits on, but it's what I think I'd do with that set up. It's a cleaner solution and works round the problems so far.

quote:

---

Originally posted by DIY Si
Given that you're looking at a plate on a mount onto an AV mount, I'd do away with all three and make something better/less complicated. Can the bit that bolts to the subframe be easily removed? If that were replaced with a poly bush type mount you'd get a better angle up to the block or maybe go higher up the block and still clear the column. The other option is to have something like the existing AV mount, but angled in towards the engine. That would give much better clearance and allow you to angle it up the block. It would also lessen the twisting motion put into the mounts as they are now as the force would go more directly into the rail rather than above it.

OK, it would mean the money you've spent so far is wasted unless you can sell the bits on, but it's what I think I'd do with that set up. It's a cleaner solution and works round the problems so far.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KFC
Anyway, I think we should get back to the thread title, how about a supercharger?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by v8kid

quote:

---

Originally posted by KFC
Anyway, I think we should get back to the thread title, how about a supercharger?

---

This thread has wandered so much I've lost the plot as well The title was jag V6 weight !

Cheers!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KFC

quote:

---

Originally posted by DIY Si
Given that you're looking at a plate on a mount onto an AV mount, I'd do away with all three and make something better/less complicated. Can the bit that bolts to the subframe be easily removed? If that were replaced with a poly bush type mount you'd get a better angle up to the block or maybe go higher up the block and still clear the column. The other option is to have something like the existing AV mount, but angled in towards the engine. That would give much better clearance and allow you to angle it up the block. It would also lessen the twisting motion put into the mounts as they are now as the force would go more directly into the rail rather than above it.

OK, it would mean the money you've spent so far is wasted unless you can sell the bits on, but it's what I think I'd do with that set up. It's a cleaner solution and works round the problems so far.

---

Yeah that sounds like a good idea but the hours involved with that alone is far too much for me. With all the other mods to get where I am now I'm guessing it would be at least 100 hours. I want to drive this car by the spring, not be an ongoing project. I really enjoy the challange and at the same time knowing I'll be driving it soon is exciting. I want this to be a conversion that will use as many standard parts as possible so that maybe others can do it well, sell my adapter kits.

Anyway, I think we should get back to the thread title, how about a supercharger?

---

True but I don't want to spend all my time in the garage like I am at the moment, I do like other fun in my life. The only kits I want to have a go at selling is the RX8 gearbox to klde V6 adapter plate with moded flywheel to complete the pairing.

In which case I wish you the best of luck!

Just weighed the AJ30 going in my car
Engine with sump on,
ST200 inlet manifold,
Small denso alternator,
ST200 solid flywheel,
RX8 gearbox adapter plate,

130kg.

Engine complete with 6 speed RX8 gearbox and updated Mondeo 240mm clutch,

183kg.

Engine with Denso alternator on,

119.7kg.

[Edited on 19/3/19 by CosKev3]

so pleased to find this data as this AJ30/RX8 combo is almost exactly what I have nfor my Gilbern Invader.
What I'd really like is some relaible weight data on the original setup which was Ford Essex & Type F box.

PS what 'update' did you do to the clutch flywheel for the Jag/Mazda combo?

[Edited on 4/3/21 by spegru]

[Edited on 4/3/21 by spegru]

quote:

---

Originally posted by spegru
so pleased to find this data as this AJ30/RX8 combo is almost exactly what I have nfor my Gilbern Invader.
What I'd really like is some relaible weight data on the original setup which was Ford Essex & Type F box.

PS what 'update' did you do to the clutch flywheel for the Jag/Mazda combo?

[Edited on 4/3/21 by spegru]

[Edited on 4/3/21 by spegru]

---

Gilbert Invader, there’s a blast from the past. The first kit car I ever helped build around 1971 , much nicer than a Reliant Scimitar . Good luck with your conversion

Thanks for the thoughts Rustynuts. I don't know whether there is any way to tell if it was originally a kit or not - but it certainly is now!
In fact it has replaced my Scimitar - which I thought was a bit too big and heavy.

CosKev3 did you use a standard dual mass flywheel? I'm unclear if an ST200 is any different to be honest

thanks

spegru


PS you can see me messing around with this project here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=spegru%27s+garage

quote:

---

Originally posted by spegru
Thanks for the thoughts Rustynuts. I don't know whether there is any way to tell if it was originally a kit or not - but it certainly is now!
In fact it has replaced my Scimitar - which I thought was a bit too big and heavy.

CosKev3 did you use a standard dual mass flywheel? I'm unclear if an ST200 is any different to be honest

thanks

spegru


PS you can see me messing around with this project here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=spegru%27s+garage

---

Thanks coskev3

To be honest I'm quite unfamiliar with these so I just did a quick search on ebay
I found this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BF-FLYWHEEL-BRAND-NEW-20090225661/284180011393?fits=Model%3AMondeo%7CCars+Type%3A2.5+ST+200&epid=12028232024&hash=i tem422a72d981:g:sLcAAOSwyahgJEAA

Does that seem correct?

thanks
spegru

It doesn't look correct to me. But it's a bit hard with the info on there.

It states it weighs 32kgs!

As above unless they can send you pics of the exact flywheel its hard to say

The generally accepted weight of a 3.0 Essex engine is 400 lbs, some sources say 379lbs. To put it into perspective the weight of a 1990's Ford 302 V8 is circa 425lbs complete less fluids.

Wonder what a Cologne weighs ?

That’s what mine will be replacing.

So the Duratec 30 isn’t much heavier than a Zetec. Felt like it pulling it out of the mondeo.

The Cologne is lighter than the Essex, bear in mind the Essex was originally designed to have a diesel version, again the weights are all over the place, some will be for OHV and others OHC but 365lbs is a good figure to use.

I just invested in a weight scal to attach to my engine crane.

So I can confim the weight of the AJ6 complete with Alternator, AC compressor large Jaguar inlet manifold but no flywheel per se (only an auto box starter plate) - plus the RX8 adaptor plate previously discussed

162.5kg

I also weighed the R8 6 speed gearbox
42.8kg

I think that you will find that either a five or six speed RX8 gearbox will weigh 50kgs, I have weighed several on different scales and they have always weighed 49/50/51 kgs. The variation maybe the scales or just some had oil and others did not.

I weighed my 5 spd at 47 kg with no oil on the bathroom scales.

I just retested the gearbox on some other scales and got 42.6kg. There is no oil in it though.
Not sure of the oil capacity, but I doubt it's going to be enough to make the difference.
I can't explain this......

Is the 42 kg one a post 2009 gearbox made by Mazda rather than Aisin?

It says Aisin on the side. Dont know the year ,,,

I built up a collection of RX8 gearboxes when they were £50 cheap and because I was putting one into a MGB I weighed both 5 & 6 speed versions and they were identical in weight. I also weighed the MGB OD gearbox and it was also 50kgs which is correct so my scales are accurate. It could just be a variation in year of manufacture.

Mine at 47kg that would include the prop shaft knuckle, slave cylinder, clutch fork, thrust bearing and gear shift minus the knob.

no propshaft, clutch fork, bearing or slave, but there is a gearlever without knob
(hmm I hadnt thought of the fork - that's a part i'll need)

EDIT: in fact the clutch fork and release bearing are fitted

[Edited on 21/3/21 by spegru]

[Edited on 22/3/21 by spegru]

I received a delivery of a Jag Dual mass flywheel today. To my surprise the starter engages perfectly using the ebay adaptor plate. Why was I surprised? I don't know really!
The weight of the whole clutch assembly was ~20kg

what clutch plate will you use ?
I hate dual mass flywheels I’ve never bought one that wasn’t knackered

Ive bought a standard RX8 one off ebay. It might arrive tomorrow....

The dual mass flywheel seems ok, although I've no real experiencew with them. ~1cm rotational slack. Still it was cheap enough for a trial

By the way what you you use for a clutch slave cylinder considering the engine gets in the way of th standard one? I've got it fixed using just one of the two bolts right now but not that happy about it

[Edited on 24/3/21 by spegru]

Ive got the RX8 clutch plate and it looks fine. Same diameter as the Jag/Ford one. Obviously it also fits the Mazda gearbox
This is what I bought: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clutch-Centre-Plate-fits-MAZDA-RX8-1-3-03-to-12-13B-MSP-6-Speed-MTM-236mm-ADL/333845171192?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&am p;_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Pretty expensive I thought actually.....

But in order to assemble everything I need the flywheel bolt torque setting figure.

(Seems a nightmare to search for this and TBH the LB internal search function never works for me at all)

While I am at it I also need advice on slave cylinders and how to thread the oil filter take off/LH engine mounting

Advice appreciated

spegru

quote:

---

Originally posted by spegru
Ive got the RX8 clutch plate and it looks fine. Same diameter as the Jag/Ford one. Obviously it also fits the Mazda gearbox
This is what I bought: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clutch-Centre-Plate-fits-MAZDA-RX8-1-3-03-to-12-13B-MSP-6-Speed-MTM-236mm-ADL/333845171192?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&am p;_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Pretty expensive I thought actually.....

But in order to assemble everything I need the flywheel bolt torque setting figure.

(Seems a nightmare to search for this and TBH the LB internal search function never works for me at all)

While I am at it I also need advice on slave cylinders and how to thread the oil filter take off/LH engine mounting

Advice appreciated

spegru

---

Thanks for that. Ive gone with 115 kg/m oiled with loctite - I hope thats sufficient: it's pretty tight!

For the slave I see on ebay some v6 types but there appear to have offset mounting holes? Could you provide slightly more detail? (or a link ;-) ?)
For the oil filter, is the AN30 the same as your typical Mocal setup? I was thinking of a double ended adaptor threaded into the alloy bit rather than welding... Actually It would be interesting toi see your LH engine mounting - Ive made up a steel box for the alloy thing, that bolts on in several places....

s

For my remote oil take off, i used the Mocal plate and machined up a double ended adaptor stub (3/4" unf into the Mocal and M22 into the block). Whilst my engine is a the ST220 version of the duratec, the blocks are the same.

Thanks Oddified (I'm following you on Youtube BTW)



[Edited on 1/4/21 by spegru]