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Zetec blacktop oil pick up
Plunky - 22/9/15 at 08:09 PM

Hi,
I have recently replaced the engine in my F27 with a blacktop Zetec engine. The engine has come with, what looks like a retro ford rwd sump. However, on removal of the sump, there is no oil pick up fitted. My question is, will a standard oil pick up fit with the different sump fitted? Or do I need to go down a different route?
Thanks,
Liam

coozer - 22/9/15 at 11:41 PM

Post a pic of the sump first!

big_wasa - 23/9/15 at 07:03 AM

Look on the Rf web site and you will see the pick up pipe for there sump is far from a standard pickup.

Paul Turner - 23/9/15 at 08:38 AM

Modified sumps require the correct modified pick up to work as designed. Problem is the plastic pickup standard on later blacktops, its simply not possible to modify it and that is probably why there is no pickup with your engine.

Suggest you speak to Retro Ford if they supplied the sump.

SJ - 23/9/15 at 08:45 AM

Many blacktops come with a metal pick. The three engines I've had all did. They are easy to chop and weld to fit a modified sump.

Stu

[Edited on 23/9/15 by SJ]

Plunky - 23/9/15 at 12:38 PM

i have a metal pick up from my old silver top engine.

would this fit if modified?

is it simply a case of cutting it down and re-welding?

Plunky - 23/9/15 at 12:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Post a pic of the sump first!


details of the sump in this post...

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=190636

Paul Turner - 23/9/15 at 12:45 PM

Looking at the photo's I would not want it on my seven.

Suggest you get a proper baffled sump from Scholar (just as good as the opposition and cheaper - identical to the well respected Dunnell sump) together with pick up and fitting kit for the Blacktop.

Then sell that monstrosity to a mug on E-Bay.

Paul Turner - 23/9/15 at 01:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Plunky
i have a metal pick up from my old silver top engine.

would this fit if modified?

is it simply a case of cutting it down and re-welding?


I have a Silvertop metal pickup on my Blacktop. It needs work to make it fit but it does and works perfectly. It requires the angle of the mounting plate modifying as well as the head modifying to suit the sump.

But as I said above get a proper sump form a well known supplier rather than using that Heath Robinson contraption.

SJ - 23/9/15 at 01:20 PM

By all means get a custom made sump as I'm sure it is the best bet, but FYI I just chopped the standard blacktop sump without adding any baffles. I've never had any issues with oil starvation.

Stu

Paul Turner - 23/9/15 at 01:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SJ
By all means get a custom made sump as I'm sure it is the best bet, but FYI I just chopped the standard blacktop sump without adding any baffles. I've never had any issues with oil starvation.

Stu


But have you been on the track with sticky tyres?

A sump that works under those circumstances is way cheaper than a replacement engine.

SJ - 23/9/15 at 01:44 PM

quote:

Text
quote:
Originally posted by SJ
By all means get a custom made sump as I'm sure it is the best bet, but FYI I just chopped the standard blacktop sump without adding any baffles. I've never had any issues with oil starvation.

Stu


But have you been on the track with sticky tyres?

A sump that works under those circumstances is way cheaper than a replacement engine.



Yes, if you are classing R888s as sticky tyres. I've never used slicks though.

Clearly if you are building a really track focused car then do it properly, but from my experience it isn't needed for occasional use. This is locost builders after all.

Also, a replacement standard engine is probably a similar price to the sump, but I take the point that you don't want to be swapping engines regularly.

It really depends which end of the cost scale you are working on & mine is definitely at the cheap end!


Stu

Paul Turner - 23/9/15 at 02:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SJ

It really depends which end of the cost scale you are working on & mine is definitely at the cheap end!



Mine is a Caterham but I am still in favour of keeping costs down. I am not one of those "fortunates" that can throw £40000 down and drive away in a new motor.

My first Zetec was bought in 2001 for £150 out of a burnout and was fitted for peanuts but I did not skimp on the important parts, still using the same sump and steel flywheel.

When I fitted injection in 2004 I fabricated as much as I could to not only save money but also get a better fit than many off the shelf solutions provide. I made the throttle linkage myself, works perfectly and cost a few bits of alloy and 2 afternoon's in the garage, fits better than any Jenvey or similar.

But doing things in such a way that failure is inevitable does not add up financially and whilst I enjoy working on the car during the summer I enjoy driving it more.

Over the years I have seen some real carbuncles that the owners were proud of but in truth were worth nothing, at least with a well built car its worth something if you have to sell it.

Remember the old saying, "if its worth doing its worth doing well". I do and in the long term its no more expensive, do it right and do it once.

Plunky - 23/9/15 at 02:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
Looking at the photo's I would not want it on my seven.

Suggest you get a proper baffled sump from Scholar (just as good as the opposition and cheaper - identical to the well respected Dunnell sump) together with pick up and fitting kit for the Blacktop.

Then sell that monstrosity to a mug on E-Bay.


What is exactly wrong with the one i have?

Would you not recommend the complete kit from RF then?

http://www.retro-ford.co.uk/shop/content/zetec-rwd-front-drop-wet-sump-blacktop-a002bt

the Scholar sump isnt far off of the price of the RF kit

http://www.scholarengines.co.uk/Lowline%20sump.htm

Paul Turner - 23/9/15 at 02:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Plunky
Would you not recommend the complete kit from RF then?

http://www.retro-ford.co.uk/shop/content/zetec-rwd-front-drop-wet-sump-blacktop-a002bt



No because that is not a suitable sump for a Seven type kit car. If you look at the Scholar sump it has a flat bottom to maximise ground clearance and is correctly baffled. The Retro Ford one has a lower front section which will soon get damaged or worse.

Buy the correct part for the car you are building.

SJ - 23/9/15 at 03:32 PM

I can't tell from the pics but would certainly agree ground clearance for the sump is a big issue. You need at least 10cm between the lowest part of the sump and the road, and even then you will have to be careful.

There is no reason why the sump you have can't be modified, but whether it is easier to sell it and buy a different one is up to you.

looking at the prices I'll stick with my home chopped one! My donor car, engine, carbs, ignition and exhaust cost about that much!

Stu

[Edited on 23/9/15 by SJ]

[Edited on 23/9/15 by SJ]

Plunky - 23/9/15 at 09:01 PM

Also, to add, the previous engine, which was a silvertop, had an almost identical sump fitted, in terms of shape and I don't think clearance is an issue.

Plunky - 24/9/15 at 03:13 PM

Does anyone know of any Scholar/Dunnel sumps that are for sale?