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Plastic Oil Pickup
rm0rgan - 22/12/15 at 02:12 PM

Has anyone successfully modified one for a shortened sump?

Mine needs about 10mm removing off it so my sump would fit and then from what I have read needs to sit about 10mm from the base of the sump.







The plastic is 25mm in depth to the gauze - what would happen if I was to cut the plastic back to the level of the gauze and then make a metal cap with the same shape cut out as what is on the metal pickups and attach/seal this over the gauze?




Would it work?

[Edited on 22/12/15 by rm0rgan]

Paul Turner - 22/12/15 at 02:25 PM

Are you serious. Obviously from the photo you have a brand new Zetec and are thinking about bodging the plastic pickup.

Get a metal one and get it properly modified.

Low cost is one thing but risking a new engine is just plain daft.

My metal pickup cost me about £30 14 years ago, not exactly expensive per year is it.

loggyboy - 22/12/15 at 02:31 PM

I thought about this but decided I didnt want to risk anything dropping off so bought a metal one for £10 and trimmed and welded it:

rm0rgan - 22/12/15 at 02:50 PM

Yes - it's a serious question - It's all very well knowing you bought yours 14 years ago and it cost £30 and I should go and do what everyone else has always done but I'm curious if someone has had the same thought or even better, done it.

I see many people buy and modify the metal ones by cutting and welding them (and I don't have a problem doing this) yet I don't understand why anyone hasn't trimmed the plastic one down and fabricated/attached a metal plate in the same shape as you get on the metal one (the shape is presumably to allow a smaller contact point to allow for more consistent suction). It might be easier to make this shaped disc than have to buy a new pick-up and get it welded etc.

It seems to be the depth that causes the issue which is why people have to shorten them - I'm happy to put you in the 'No' camp but I'm genuinely interested in knowing why it wouldn't work - it's not just about cost but it might help someone else if it can be done (or someone has already done it)

rm0rgan - 22/12/15 at 02:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
I thought about this but decided I didnt want to risk anything dropping off so bought a metal one for £10 and trimmed and welded it:


Thanks for showing that.

So from your picture that looks like it's moved back quite a bit from where it would originally sit in the original sump - was that just how it ended up or did you need to move it back too as a result of the sump modification?

Mine would be quite happy in the same place as the original pick-up but just needs to be higher.

How far does it sit above the bottom on the sump? 10mm 'ish?

Paul Turner - 22/12/15 at 03:13 PM

This is mine.




Did not use the blacktop 2 piece sump either. Used a professionally modified silvertop one and a silvertop windage tray and spacer kit.

Ever wondered why the professionals only offer modified silvertop sumps for blacktops and why none offer modified plastic pickups.

It only takes a few seconds of oil starvation to wreck an engine and I know that after 14 years my set up has worked perfectly on both silvertop and blacktop.

rm0rgan - 22/12/15 at 03:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
This is mine.




Did not use the blacktop 2 piece sump either. Used a professionally modified silvertop one and a silvertop windage tray and spacer kit.

Ever wondered why the professionals only offer modified silvertop sumps for blacktops and why none offer modified plastic pickups.

It only takes a few seconds of oil starvation to wreck an engine and I know that after 14 years my set up has worked perfectly on both silvertop and blacktop.


Presumably to only hold stock of one sump that can fit both engine types - but as for modified plastic pick-ups, I've no idea. I suspect it's down to the initial cost to manufacture the mouldings backed off against limited demand - but plastic must be perfectly adequate for use in an engine else I wouldn't have one in my engine.

My thinking was to cut the plastic down to the gauze and then get a disc of steel, cut a hole in it as per the bottom of a metal one and then bend it over and around the bottom of the pick up with sealer to help it seal and stick better.

Paul Turner - 22/12/15 at 03:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rm0rganbend it over and around the bottom of the pick up with sealer to help it seal and stick better.


What happens when the sealer breaks down and blocks the pick up or gauze, I know, the engine gets trashed.

Do the job properly.

big_wasa - 22/12/15 at 04:01 PM

As far as I know all the st170 pick ups are metal.

Ask this guy for a sensible postage price.

eBay Item

[Edited on 22/12/15 by big_wasa]

loggyboy - 22/12/15 at 04:03 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rm0rgan
Thanks for showing that.

So from your picture that looks like it's moved back quite a bit from where it would originally sit in the original sump - was that just how it ended up or did you need to move it back too as a result of the sump modification?

Mine would be quite happy in the same place as the original pick-up but just needs to be higher.

How far does it sit above the bottom on the sump? 10mm 'ish?


I shortened so it sat just in front of the baffle plate i added mid length of the sump.



Before It was cut:




Original plastic one:



Metal after modding:



[Edited on 22-12-15 by loggyboy]

big_wasa - 22/12/15 at 04:09 PM

The modified pick up in your first post is half a silver top and half a black top pick up. There was also a support bracket to stop it snapping due to fatigue. It goes as far back as the baffle as that's the direction the oil wants to go. The sierra had the pick up all the way at the back.

rm0rgan - 22/12/15 at 04:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
quote:
Originally posted by rm0rganbend it over and around the bottom of the pick up with sealer to help it seal and stick better.


What happens when the sealer breaks down and blocks the pick up or gauze, I know, the engine gets trashed.

Do the job properly.


I think you'll find silicon sealer is a fair bit more resilient than you might think...

rm0rgan - 22/12/15 at 04:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by rm0rgan
Thanks for showing that.

So from your picture that looks like it's moved back quite a bit from where it would originally sit in the original sump - was that just how it ended up or did you need to move it back too as a result of the sump modification?

Mine would be quite happy in the same place as the original pick-up but just needs to be higher.

How far does it sit above the bottom on the sump? 10mm 'ish?


I shortened so it sat just in front of the baffle plate i added mid length of the sump.

Original plastic one:



Metal after modding:



[Edited on 22-12-15 by loggyboy]


These two pictures tell me as much as I need to know - the reduction in depth is quite significant looking at that and think I may still be a few mm's deep even if I trimmed the plastic right back.

A modified metal one is going to be needed I think. A useful debate (mostly) and appreciate the pictures - cheers!

big_wasa - 22/12/15 at 04:48 PM

Just to add you wont get anything to stick to the plastic pipe.

Paul Turner - 22/12/15 at 04:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rm0rgan

I think you'll find silicon sealer is a fair bit more resilient than you might think...


Its well known that silicone sealant turns into "Gorilla Snot" when it comes into contact with oil. There are engine silicones out there that supposedly don't but all sealants are designed for use in thin layers between components and not sticking essential components together.

The sump on my Zetec once contacted a metal gate stop and a crack about 1" long resulted. There was a tiny oil leak, only a few drips over a week but annoying all the same. Decided to try cleaning it and applying some araldite. Worked for 2 years, when the engine came out the sump came off and was welded.

But I could see the araldite and had it decided to turn to Gorilla Snot it would not have got into the workings of the engine. My worst case scenario was a few drips on the drive.

loggyboy - 22/12/15 at 04:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rm0rgan

These two pictures tell me as much as I need to know - the reduction in depth is quite significant looking at that and think I may still be a few mm's deep even if I trimmed the plastic right back.

A modified metal one is going to be needed I think. A useful debate (mostly) and appreciate the pictures - cheers!


The reduction will be based on how much your reduce your sump by.
Mine is about half way up the depth of the standard blacktop sump, but this this reduced the capacity by about 0.8l, so not ideal, but I plan to fit an accusump before I really drive the car in anger.


I made up a template of the sump depth/profile, then used that to trim it to suit.



rm0rgan - 22/12/15 at 05:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
As far as I know all the st170 pick ups are metal.

Ask this guy for a sensible postage price.

eBay Item

[Edited on 22/12/15 by big_wasa]


Good shout. I've dropped him a line.

Thanks very much

rm0rgan - 22/12/15 at 05:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by rm0rgan

These two pictures tell me as much as I need to know - the reduction in depth is quite significant looking at that and think I may still be a few mm's deep even if I trimmed the plastic right back.

A modified metal one is going to be needed I think. A useful debate (mostly) and appreciate the pictures - cheers!


The reduction will be based on how much your reduce your sump by.
Mine is about half way up the depth of the standard blacktop sump, but this this reduced the capacity by about 0.8l, so not ideal, but I plan to fit an accusump before I really drive the car in anger.


I made up a template of the sump depth/profile, then used that to trim it to suit.





Mine looks very close to yours, maybe a little deeper but close enough.

That's a great idea about making a template. I'll do this. Cheers again.

rm0rgan - 25/12/15 at 01:26 PM

Well, that's Sorted.

No leaks as decided to smear RTV into the joints just to be sure and so far so good.

Thanks to many of you for the good advice and comments. Best go and cook the Turkey now!

Edit. Was keen to ensure I only used the prescribed amount of sealent between the sump and block so as to avoid any possible engine destruction from excess squeezing out, dropping off and blocking the pick up inside (which oddly didn't happen on the sump I took off - the excess looked like new ). :-))

Description
Description

[Edited on 25/12/15 by rm0rgan]

[Edited on 25/12/15 by rm0rgan]

[Edited on 25/12/15 by rm0rgan]