Hello all,

I have a vindicator sprint rolling chassis and have purchased a st170 duratec engine and box.

I am wondering what gearbox to use, I have been told a mk 3 mx5 box will bolt straight on? If this is the case does anyone know what flywheel, clutch prop shaft I would need to bot up to a Sierra diff?

Also would a Mazda rx8 gearbox bolt straight on or would I need an adaptor plate ? Also what clutch flywheel prop etc would I need ?

I have been looking on various forums but cannot find any definitive answers, I have been advised to join this forum as it give the best advice


Thank you all in advance

An ST170 engine isn't really a Duratec

Its actually a tweaked Zetec-E and a duratec badge stuck on it (ford like rebranding things to make them confusing)

In fact none of the Mk1 focus's (98-05) ever had an actual duratec engine.


So you'll want a ford type 9 or an MT75 box with a 4cly bellhousing - the one used in sierra's and granada's
The same ones used on cars with x-flow, CVH, pinto and DOHC engines.


Have a search on here there are loads of old threads on fitting these engines, including the various possible combinations of gearbox, starter, flywheel and clutch that work together.


Also loads of old threads on the various ways folk have dealt with the VVT on these en

[Edited on 7/1/2016 by mcerd1]

Or you can do the rx8 gearbox thing with an adaptor plate, long thread on turbosport on this fitment.

Gutted but happy,

I've been sourcing gearboxes all day and found two boxes one mx5 and the other rx8 ! Lucky I found this site and posted. Thank you ^^

Cheeky fookers saying it's a duratec GRRRR !

So will a Sierra box fit straight on using the ST170 clutch assembly ?

The engine is from a 2002 car

Excuse the questions, new to this and want to get it righty first time

Nope!

ST170 Clutch has fewer, coarser splines than the input shaft of an MT75.

You can however use the clutch from a standard 2.0 Sierra / Granada and the ST170 Dual Mass flywheel and pressure plate.

You will need the usual MT75 clutch release bearing CT133 or similar and unfortunately - you still need the spacer that either Westfield sell or you make yourself to bring the clutch arm actuation into a useful range.

With the above assembly I found that a 15mm spacer was slightly better than the 19mm spacer that westfield supply

Geoff

^^^ of course that assumes you want to keep the dual mass flywheel

and while the MT75 box is a bit stronger as standard, its also a bit bulky in places (so you'll need to make sure there is room for one in your tunnel) and their are fewer options for upgraded gear sets than there are for a type 9 if you feel like splashing out on them later...

Here's a few dimensions that might help:

http://locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/Type9_drw.GIF

http://locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/mt75.GIF


btw type 9's and MT75's both use 1" input shafts with 23 splines

[Edited on 8/1/2016 by mcerd1]

What you want is an SPC helical cut close ratio box which is based on the type 9 and will bolt strait on using the standard Ford 4 cylinder bellhousing (preferably alloy)..

Do it right, do it once.

[Edited on 8/1/16 by Paul Turner]

Hi,

I have just finished putting in a ST170 lump with an Rx8 5 speed box (Much cheaper than 6) , using an adapter plate. I used a Pinto flywheel and clutch but 1.8/2.0 zetec flywheel and clutch will work.

I can put some photos up If you want

Regards JB

Also I had a custom made prop shaft with rx8 front end with sierra back. the reason being the ford splines fit but there is a big gap between the seal and the input. some people use a bigger seal but I have heard reports that these just fall out.

Im running mine on bike carbs with Nodiz Pro Ignition with VVT controller

quote:

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Originally posted by johnnybizzle1986
Hi,

I have just finished putting in a ST170 lump with an Rx8 5 speed box (Much cheaper than 6) , using an adapter plate. I used a Pinto flywheel and clutch but 1.8/2.0 zetec flywheel and clutch will work.

I can put some photos up If you want

yeah i would love to see some pictures dude, especially of the stater motor as it would appear i am going to need to cut out some of the alloy to accomodate the starter, also the slave cylinder as im not sure whether i need to adjust the fitting.

I have just picked up a 6 sped RX8 box and propshaft today, as i have the full wiring loom i am going to run the ST170 injection and ECU which i will get remapped eventually.

i have located a 1.8 and 2.0 zetec flywhel as it has the pick up for the sensor on them, i want to put a strong clutch in but am unsure as to what one to use?

the shaft will be in the pinion bearing approximately 10mm with a 10mm adaptor plate, will this be enough or will i need to modify it ?

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johnnybizzle1986 - 12/1/16 at 07:40 AM

Ye when I can sus out how to I will upload some photos's,

the clutch slave cyclinder is the standard rx8 on a bracket to move it forward by 10mm to make up the 10mm adapter plate it came with the kit. I should have uses a zetec flywheel as Im having to use a trigger wheel as the pinto flywheel has no sensor slots/mark.

Ye I had to cut away a few fins on the side of the sump to get the starter to fit, just attacked it with a grinder with some decent sanding pads.

the adapter kit I got came with a sleeve and extended to fit to the shaft, but I didn't use it as it it was too long, mine fit ok without it.

would the standard 2.0 zetec clutch be ok? not as much weight as a focus

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mcerd1 - 12/1/16 at 09:26 AM

I believe the 1.8 zetec flywheel is significantly lighter than the 2.0 one

I would think that the zetec clutches would be fine, just make sure you get a good quality one.
(worst thing I ever did to my 1.8 tin-top was fit a cheap valeo clutch, it slipped every time I pulled away a bit quick and smelt horrible too)

Also if you think you need a different clutch then some folk use the 2.0 pinto clutch (I believe this requires the zetec flywheel to be drilled to suit) its 215mm and easily up to the job, just get a good quality OE spec one. (OE spec LUK ones get a good name)

[Edited on 12/1/2016 by mcerd1]

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Smithaam - 12/1/16 at 05:03 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by Vindicator666.

I have just picked up a 6 sped RX8 box and propshaft today, as i have the full wiring loom i am going to run the ST170 injection and ECU which i will get remapped eventually.

---

Will that work using the original ECU? I been looking to do the same myself but was under the impression that it was a pain in the ass to get running due to all the extra sensors on the car that the ecu needs to run correctly!

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coozer - 12/1/16 at 05:22 PM

My st170 install was as follows... 1.8 zetec flywheel, mk1 1.6 Mondeo plate and cover, Capri ct133 release bearing, sierra dohc lrr707 starter and a bog standard type 9 gearbox. All bolts together with no fuss.

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coozer - 12/1/16 at 05:25 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by Smithaam

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vindicator666.

I have just picked up a 6 sped RX8 box and propshaft today, as i have the full wiring loom i am going to run the ST170 injection and ECU which i will get remapped eventually.

---

Will that work using the original ECU? I been looking to do the same myself but was under the impression that it was a pain in the ass to get running due to all the extra sensors on the car that the ecu needs to run correctly!

---

I'm sure the wasa will be along soon but in the meantime have a look at this...



[Edited on 12/1/16 by coozer]

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Smithaam - 12/1/16 at 06:57 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by coozer

quote:

---

Originally posted by Smithaam

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vindicator666.

I have just picked up a 6 sped RX8 box and propshaft today, as i have the full wiring loom i am going to run the ST170 injection and ECU which i will get remapped eventually.

---

Will that work using the original ECU? I been looking to do the same myself but was under the impression that it was a pain in the ass to get running due to all the extra sensors on the car that the ecu needs to run correctly!

---

I'm sure the wasa will be along soon but in the meantime have a look at this...



[Edited on 12/1/16 by coozer]

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Yeah have been reading up about it, wasa has done an amazing job! not sure I have the patients to do it mind.

What kit would people recommend without using the ECU? burton do a weber setup with loom but its around £900 plus you need a second system to run the VVT at around £200+

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coozer - 13/1/16 at 04:19 PM

I used an Omex 600 with bike throttle bodies. Used one of the shift light outputs to simply switch the vvt via a relay.

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Rob Allison - 14/1/16 at 03:13 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by Vindicator666

Cheeky fookers saying it's a duratec GRRRR !

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They are not wrong. Ford badged the ST170 as a duratec. Although it is a modified zetec.

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Ugg10 - 14/1/16 at 03:25 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by coozer
I used an Omex 600 with bike throttle bodies. Used one of the shift light outputs to simply switch the vvt via a relay.

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Omex 600 you can also use the ALT function to turn the VCT off/on/off and also limit it's use under light load to help economy(say under 25% load). Jenko on here did this with a Puma 1.7 very successfully and the ST170 VCT works in the same way IIRC. Worth looking at Jenko's blog to see the dyno graphs with the different VCT settings, this illustrates perfectly how the VCT works and when it is required to kink in/out.

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Rob Allison - 16/1/16 at 10:37 PM

The ST170 is not an on/off system. It is a fully variable closed loop angle controlled system. Just switching the solenoid on and off will not give the correct cam angle. The cam runs at about 32 Degrees from its retarded position for best power. if you just switch it on, it goes from 85deg btdc to 145deg btdc.

Locking the cam at the peak power point works fine and is very drivable. But if the VCt is mapped and full used you gain low end torque. It all depends on what you want out of the engine.

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Ugg10 - 17/1/16 at 09:49 AM

quote:

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Originally posted by Rob Allison
The ST170 is not an on/off system. It is a fully variable closed loop angle controlled system. Just switching the solenoid on and off will not give the correct cam angle. The cam runs at about 32 Degrees from its retarded position for best power. if you just switch it on, it goes from 85deg btdc to 145deg btdc.

Locking the cam at the peak power point works fine and is very drivable. But if the VCt is mapped and full used you gain low end torque. It all depends on what you want out of the engine.

---

Good info, I thought the VCT in the St170 was the same as the Puma 1.7 system i.e. it is fully mapped/variable in the OEM ecu but basically this rounds of the edges of the central "on" area. However, based on the work jenko did (Northampton motorsport tuners) with the puma system this can be very effectively used as an on/off/on system with an off under a certain load setting to give a bit of extra economy. Picking the cross over points is the key and is fairly easy to spot based on his graphs. Off setting is good for low rev and also high revs, on setting is good for mid range, this maybe where people go wrong i.e. not turning it off at high revs and so loose a lot of top end, agreed it is not s VTEC just off/on system.

Worth a read - http://paulsj15.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/more-on-vct-system.html (on the graph - red = off, blue = on, black is fully mapped)

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coozer - 17/1/16 at 10:41 AM

Just to add to Robs post there, when I sold my car the buyer did away with the vvt fixing the cam and got 206 bhp out of it.

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Rob Allison - 17/1/16 at 10:27 PM

Yep on a standard ST170 with the vct delete kit locking the cam you will see 200bhp. The low down torque does suffer a little but not much.

Just turning on and off is no good for this engine and as many have seen you get about 165bhp max. do it right and its a much better engine.

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Vindicator666 - 18/2/16 at 11:14 AM

I have brought a plate from phil but the dohc starter does not fit even after the sump has been ground right out

Does anyone have an oe number of a slim line short body that I can source or the car it would come off

Any assistance appreciated

Also can anyone advise how to put pictures on here so as to show the dilema

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Vindicator666 - 15/3/16 at 10:32 PM

Will that work using the original ECU? I been looking to do the same myself but was under the impression that it was a pain in the ass to get running due to all the extra sensors on the car that the ecu needs to run correctly!

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I don't know the enginebay size of a vindicator. But the complete st170 engine with all standard parts fit in a westfield Seiw.

[img]http://
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[Edited on 4/4/16 by Your-nme]

I've seen somone advertising cnc'd conversion plates to fit the rx8 box to any motor, cheap and plentiful boxes 👌

I'm building a ST170 mid-engine...I wonder if I could bolt an ecoboost (1.6 or even 2.0!) with gearbox in the same mount without any re-welding? just curiosity...