I seem to have got a bit of air into my cooling system. I've checked a few diagrams and it seems fairly complicated - the water must be dizzy going around there.
Anyway - I've established that there are two bleed points on the system. One on a heater hose and one just under the dizzy cap on the cylinder head. I also need to make absolutely sure that the rad is completely full with no airlocks as well obviously.

Any tips - I'll be having another go at it tomorrow and will be temporarily removing the header tank and siting it higher for filling purposes.

Wish me luck - it's a K series remember and must be kept cool.

[Edited on 2/6/05 by zilspeed]

one tip....

always drink lager cold.

You need to bleed the system at the highest point, are you using an expansion tank, or filling at the radiator cap?

Ray

Expansion tank - tried again today. No joy.

Going to try pressure filling it over the weekend.

Always start bleeding with the system cold -- I never found FWD K series hard to bleed but some people have had all sorts of peoblems.

The small bore hose at the cambelt side of the inlet manifold flange is a continuous bleed point -- the hole in the spigot is tiny and it can get blocked up. (this asumes you have the plastic inlet manifold I don't know about the cast or single point types_)

I have the cast multi point manifold - it has injection cast into the plenum chamber.

Having now established a full radiator via the rad bleed hose on the cross pipe I now think there is air in the bottom hose as it runs under the car.
Put it this way - everywhere else is fine. Solid pipe from the thermostat is fine, heater bleed is fine. Rad stays cold with engine warming.

The bleed point on the inlet manifold has a continuous strem of water, so I don;t think it's that either.

I could be a mile wrong, but I reckon it's the fact that the coolant pipes going underneath the car that causes the problem.
Tomorrow again before I have another go at it.

**Update**

After searching the teamGTM archives - again - and checking on a bit of kit I have had in my toolbox for years....

It seems that the cap adapter on my Gunsons Eezibleed is an exact fit for my Metro header tank. So, tomorrow I will be trying it this way and attempting to get air out via bleed screws, hose connections - everywhere I can think of.
Bear in mind that although air pressure is used, it will be coolant I am forcing into the system, not air

Surely, this will work...

[Edited on 28/5/05 by zilspeed]

what you need to do is to have the air gone to the highest point..

and there is where you canbleed it off the system...

i don't think you can have air in a Down hose..because with one good 'pinch??'

you can force the water to move / air to move....

i'm also wondering how do you know where the air is???

Tks

I haven't a f**king clue where the air is.

That is my official diagnosis after another go at it today.

Engine warms up - radiator and pipes to it stay stone cold. I have waited until the thermostat has definitely opened. You can tell, because the water rail across the block warms up.

Next plan - complete drain of full cooling system, followed by backflush of the radiator andvery slow refilling with all bleed points open.

I'll tell you one thing - you learn the intricacies of your cooling system by doing all of this - that's for sure.



[Edited on 29/5/05 by zilspeed]

It can be a bastard John. I've now fitted a remote thermostat to mine to replace the one I had with a couple of holes drilled in it.
Is there a vent pipe off the top of the rad down through the tunnel and up to the header tank?? I have some views about this.
Also there is a little valve on the head that lets the air out to the tank. Removing the hose and poking something in to make sure it's loose is a good thing. When you take the hose off that little tube no water should come out until you poke the valve, then you should get water....the air should've been auto-bled already.

I have not been paying attention, is this on the GTM? Is the rad at the front of the car like an X19?

To bleed an X19, I had to jack the front of the car as high as possible to get the rad to be the highest point in the system. The bleed off from there.

Guys

Thanks for this input.
I have a straight hose joiner from the hose leaving the cylinder head. Now considering modding that to accept another bleed point.
I see the GTM as having several 'high points' which are sperated by low runs. I currently have two of those catered for by bleed points. The one at the cylinder head is the last.

If it wasn't for the fact that the car has quite succesfully run like this for the last 10 years or so, I would be sorely tempted to rip it all out and fit a rear radiator, air ducting and a big f**k off fan...

If anyone is still following this....

I can not establish any acceptable flow through the cooling system whatsoever. This is after creative addition of new bleed points, slow and carefull filling of the cooling system and several attempts at it.
One other worrying developments. Tiny bits of aluminium in the header tank...

I believe that the pump impeler is a simple push fit on the spindle of the water pump and it is not at all unheard of for these to lose there grip on the spindle and basically stop pumping.
The fact that In recent weeks I have given the engine absolute hell when it has never had this type of treatment before (it was strictly a road car before) kind of adds to this theory I think.


So.......

To do the water pump involves removing the timing belt and with this engine having the reputation it does for head gasket failure it would be a false economy not to lift the head while I'm in that far.
The engine has done 100,000 miles as well, so it's possibl due a bit of a look at.

Bottom line - head off, inspection, skim if required (not neccesarily a bad thing) renew water pump and new timing belt.

Could be much worse - at least it got me home from the last sprint before doing this.

when's your next event John..?

Either Kames or Forrestburn Colin - I suspect Forrestburn.
I could probably borrow Jock's trailer and bring the car up to his garage and do it there. At least I would be able to put some hours in on it to get it done if it was up there.

ok...bear in mind I've got a trailer too if his is busy..

Would it's lardy a**e fit on your trailer ?



I've kind of went from being down about all of this to accepting that it's a job I now have to do.

it cant be any wider than an Indy...I would imagine length would be fine to...no probs with weight as its twin axle braked too..

Tip top - I'll keep that in mind.

if you do remove the head remember,new head bolts and timing belt,dont turn the engine as the liners will move,follow wsm instructions to the letter as regards torquing/filling/bleeding/starting

I'm fortunate enough to have yer actual Rover workshop manual for the car, so I have already established all of that important stuff - not turning the crank, bolt tightening procedure etc...

I'll be very carefull - promise

One last go tonight. I intended taking off all the hose, filling the block and starting the engine. That would have meant a block full of water and no airlocks possible. This was to prove that the waterpump really was knackered. If it was working, there would have been no reason for it not to jet water out of the hose.
Anyway...

Before doing that I tried one more bleed followed by one thing I hadn't tried yet......................
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Blowing into the header tank - lips sealed around the filler neck and huff hard into the header. I could hear water moving stright away followed by a jet of bubbles out of the block vent pipe at the inlet manifold. Put the cap back on, started the engine and within a few minutes the radiator was warming nicely.

Un - be - feckin - lievable.
I've tried for a whole week to do this.

So children - top tip number one.
If you're struggling to get air out of your cooling system, get yourself down the red light district and ask who can blow the hardest. That's your solution.

so John...you've just proved your full of (hot) air....

EyeThangEwe....

I've only got one thing to say to you.

well done though...!

That's a famous one..

and the same as getting the hose with in your hand and make a movement of an pump..then you can hear in the bottle that first the level rises but then the air comes out and the level lowers again...

Tks