Mine!!!
It was free x 120 bhp is um..........good
Maths was never my strong point.
Seriously though, I'd put my money on the 2.0 Zetec, if only because it's a modern engine, more advanced.
Cheers
Chris
[Edited on 16/1/03 by chrisg]
I've been wondering about this lately. The price would have to be for a nearly new engine or else a rebuilt one, and include all the necessary stuff
for it to run it in a Locost situation
I used to think the Rover V8 was a good bet, but the rebuild prices are quite high, plus you need two exhaust manifolds etc
The 2ltr Zetec seems more promising, I haven't checked out rebuild prices, maybe £1000? but I know a pair of webers and the required ignition module
add about £900 to the price, and then you should get 165bhp for £1900 so a pound/power ratio of £11.50
Anyone else got any ideas?
John
Well,
Mine!!!
It was free x 120 bhp is um..........good
Maths was never my strong point.
Seriously though, I'd put my money on the 2.0 Zetec, if only because it's a modern engine, more advanced.
Cheers
Chris
[Edited on 16/1/03 by chrisg]
I think you may need to think of how you want the car to drive/perform too. IMO the best 'bang per buck' has to be a motorbike engine. A
lightweight unit that comes with a free six speed sequential gearbox.It soaks up severe abuse and with 130+bhp, and all this ready to run for
approximately a grand? On paper it's unbeatable. But then if other things are taken into account (would I need a reverse gear? Will it need dry
sumping? Could I cope with it on a long run, or stuck in traffic? etc etc) then it may not be a viable option.
But if you can live with the 'quirks' they take some beating.
Cheers, Stu.
thrust ssc has two rolls royce avon engines making the equiv of 100,000hp. And I think they cadged them for free.
However, the sva inspector might worry about the exhaust guarding!
The cheapest engine with the most bhp is gonna be something standard and old.
In this country, we dont have many decent cheap engines from 10- 15 years ago making decent hp - can you name a bigger engine than the v8 rover in a
uk family type car?
engines like the 2.5 litre vauxhall six, if you can get one, make 170hp but might not be cheap.
Liam's V6 rover/honda 2.7 is got to be a good bet - also 170hp and probably free.
however, its gonna be hard to mount and mate to a box.
The rover v8 in std tune is around 150hp and not too heavy. Is that such a bad proposition?
atb
steve
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
The price would have to be for a nearly new engine or else a rebuilt one,
Jag dealer quoted £3000 for exc recon V12. Not sure of bhp someone work it out.
Enjoy.
Usually cheap=unpopular/unusual, but i'm talking about the car,not the engine,so what about for example a motor from a crash damaged late model 3
litre omega or something similar, bags of power for peanuts. I suppose the headaches will come from the electronic gubbins associated with modern
power plants, and this is probably why most people go for the rover V8, old technology is easier to work with.
Al
i like the idea of a jag V12, but are there anyone on here mad enough to use it!!!! 300 bhp for £3000= suicide 
have you seen the size of them bastards, HUGE!!! to put it mildly, lol, it would take some sort of engineering just to get the thing to fit, besides
which, with over 700lbs of metal in the front you can forget about turning the corners 
so is there anyone mad enough?
If I had £3000 I'd probably have a go, but as it is I'll stick with the not quite so insane but insane enough 3.5 BMW S6....
Just for info,
My 98 W Fireblade cost me £675 with all ancillaries and wiring loomm and delivered to my door. Bought one without wiring loom for £600. Both from
scrap dealers and have engine numbers on them.
Senn them more commonly for £800 - 1500. No dry sump needed. Only thing I have found is that the clutch springs need replacing with stronger ones.
£10 and an oil change
Cheers
Jim
Heres one combination that our Scandinavian brethrin might have thought of/tried, sorry but I going down the Volvo thread here again, How about the
Renault (3.0 or was it 2.9) V6 that was fitted to the 260's/760's. V6 silky smooth, high reving, injection, (little or emmisions crap), manual gearbox
(with overdrive & RWD), live rear axle (trailing link type), disc brakes all round. (The same lump I believe as they used in that lurverly Renault
rear/mid engined sports car [which I think was also turbo'd], Sorry again but my brains not working properly & I can't think of it's name.)
Sorry but no idea on BHP again. Any takers?
Enjoy.
JollyGG
I think you're referring to the GTA Turbo. That engine, with (I believe) slightly different (longer to 2.7 from 2.5) stoke was also put into the
Renault 25 Turbo, which went like the proverbial, and sounded wonderful.
As for John's original bhp for bucks question.
I paid £150 for ny R V8 and got 164bhp so 1.09bhp / £.
Different cam and homemade exhaust system might release another 40bhp at say £200.
£350 for 200 bhp
Hayabusa engine will cost £3000 for 175bhp
£17.14 / bhp
Turbo'ing that engine at £5000 will give approx 400 bhp for £8000 ie
£20 / bhp.
I'll stick with R V8, should last 200,000 miles, so I'll just clean up the outside, make it look nice, and worry about it, if it goes bang.
ATB
Simon
gives me
quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
How about the Renault (3.0 or was it 2.9) V6 that was fitted to the 260's/760's. V6 silky smooth, high reving, injection, (little or emmisions crap), manual gearbox (with overdrive & RWD), live rear axle (trailing link type), disc brakes all round.
If you want a nice "out of the box" solution, what about a 4AGE from Raw? I seem to remember they go from around £1000-£1500 to £3000 for the rather
nice sounding supercharged version putting out a tidy 200BHP.
Comparing a Turbo'd Busa to a V8 is a bit pointless since they're so different.
Steve - I think there might be noise level problems with twin jet engines too!! You can imagine the conversation though : "What is the maximum revs of
your engine(s)?" "ummm, 80000Rpm"
Kingr
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
I paid £150 for ny R V8 and got 164bhp so 1.09bhp / £.
Different cam and homemade exhaust system might release another 40bhp at say £200.
£350 for 200 bhp
Kingr
I wasn't comparing R V8 to Hayabusa lump, just pointing out bhp/£ figs per John's orig posting. If I knew bhp / cost figs for other engines I'd have
put them up too
John,
You're probably right. I was guesstimating on the side of optimism. The engine I have is from a P6 - originally rated at 164bhp. The exhaust will be
more free flowing, and hopefully in line with Rorties (?) suggestions.
As for cost, £200 for a cam kit may be quite accurate, but I doubt the steel tube will cost much more than another £20.
ATB
Simon
The reason I keep going on about nearly new engine or rebuild is because there is a big difference between what an engine can do when it is new and
what it can when it reaches donor status. Anyone who ever drives a new car will appreciate this
The manufacturer's new bhp figures apply to new engines, not old ones.
John
Shock Horror............
for my money the 16v red top V/X will take some licking ???
there you all thought i was gonna say bike
couple a points though this "can ya live with a bike engine"
they are no problem in town, just like me they can be very "docile" and long runs ???
well at 70mph on motorways i have under 7k revs, thats nearly 6k under red line, how many revs does a normal car have left at those speeds ??? oh i
forgot, most run out of revs not much past 6k, you either like em or don't, but these around town horror storys must come from people who aint tried
em......
Mathew, remember the 30mph pull in top gear i showed you last saturday, get the gearing rite n its no problem...
all that said, if i was'nt bike powerd it would be 16v V/X there solid.
[Edited on 17/1/03 by Jon Ison]
quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
Jag dealer quoted £3000 for exc recon V12. Not sure of bhp someone work it out.
Enjoy.
If you ignore the mounting problems and you want bhp/£ out of a 3.5 get a frigged BMW like we did.
£300 and you get 218bhp (when it was new) and you'll be able to make one or two mods like removing power steering pump, decent air filter, better
exhaust for not a great deal.... You'll get a few more horses. Nowhere near that with the Rover engine....
Now everyone argue....
I see the toyota has not come up too much here, In South Africa, this would be one of the easiest and cheapest engine to get hold of. Don't cry but
you can get the 1600 16v for about R3000 and the 1600 20v for about R4000 max(both with around 60-80k on the odo). Parts,toyota (besides ford) are
proberly the cheapest out of all SA's cars.Just for a price comparison, you could proberly pick up a 1600X-flow for around R2500-R3000 max!
What would you guys pay for the above engines? parts for the above engines?
You could pick up some twin 40's for around R900 , with a mainfold if you lucky
darren
Nice thing about S. Africa is that our dearest Henry (ford) built the Capri with a proper engine, ---- a nice big V8 I believe.
Enjoy
Robin Hood fitted a Jag V12 to one of their own cars about 10 years ago.
I agree with Steve though, a non starter for a Locost, much too big. I don't think they weigh 700 pounds though(?) On the bench and stripped of their
ancilliaries they don't look all that bad. I bet a 6cyl beemer is as heavy. - Hippy, don't remove the power steering pump - you'll need it!
Can't remember the quoted weight but it's not as terrible as you might think for a big block 6.
As for the ps pump....
Nah.
sorry mr walker i stand corrected you are right they don't weigh 700lbs as i thought, they weigh 680lbs as an installed wet weight, but hey, i
wasn't far off, i know it's bloody heavy as i have removed one, in fact the bloody great thing is still sat in the corner of the garage waiting to
be reinstalled at a later date, and steve, mine does have a manual box!!!!
i think metal hippy is going to be having a work out when your 7 is on the road, that engine of yours weighs 500lbs, i think thats a wet weight
too?
this is all according to a site i've seen with engine weights specified, so please don't have a go at me if you know different
[quotethought, they weigh 680lbs as an installed wet weight, but hey, i wasn't far off,
date, and steve, mine does have a manual box!!!!
Not much useful info come out of this thread so far, lots of mentions of manufacturers bhp figures for new engines, but the prices being suggested are
for old engines. Bit of a logic gap there.
Perhaps we should be discussing both figures is their old form, i.e. likely prices for an old engine, and likely power output for an old engine
John
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
Perhaps we should be discussing both figures is their old form, i.e. likely prices for an old engine, and likely power output for an old engine
John
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
Not much useful info come out of this thread so far, lots of mentions of manufacturers bhp figures for new engines, but the prices being suggested are for old engines. Bit of a logic gap there.
Perhaps we should be discussing both figures is their old form, i.e. likely prices for an old engine, and likely power output for an old engine
John
Jon,
In response to bike engines, and engine/road speed calculations.
You say the Isonblade is doing "under 7k revs, thats nearly 6k under red line, how many revs does a normal car have left at those speeds".
According to my calcs, my R V8 car (in theory) will do just over 2500 rpm at 70 rpm.
You're using 53.8462% of available revs at 70mph.
I'll be using 45.4545%!
Don't get me wrong, big fan of bike engines in cars - watched them in action at Brighton Speed Trials last year - most impressed.
John (Int. Pty)
I think you'll find that an engine that still works perfectly (with say 40k on the clock) will put out more power than a new engine.
It should be nicely bedded in and loose, without falling apart, if you see what I mean.
There you go, my thoughts for a Monday morning!
ATB
Simon
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
I think you'll find that an engine that still works perfectly (with say 40k on the clock) will put out more power than a new engine.
It should be nicely bedded in and loose, without falling apart, if you see what I mean.
Ford 2.8 V6 Cologne, complete and running for fifty of your earth pounds.
about thirty of your earth pence per BHP me thinks.
OK it's old and agricultural but they are torquey, not too big and heavy and are cheap as chips.
Mind you what about the humble pinto - they are nearly free, so although not dripping with excess BHP must score highly on the BHP/£ stakes.
Cheers
Phil.
quote:
Originally posted by philgregson
Ford 2.8 V6 Cologne, complete and running for fifty of your earth pounds.
about thirty of your earth pence per BHP me thinks.
OK it's old and agricultural but they are torquey, not too big and heavy and are cheap as chips.
No prob Simon, i'm a big fan of the V8 too, just 4 me the bike engine is much more fun, the main point i was making is all this "you can't drive em on
road" well the bottom line is you can and very easily,
each to his own.........where all in it for the fun, enjoy!!!!!
if we all wanted/built the same it would be a tad boreing would it not...
Jon,
"if we all wanted/built the same it would be a tad boreing would it not..."
Incredibly, plus Blade/V8/whatever engines would be worth their weight in gold!!
Praise the Lord for Diversity!!
ATB
Simon
i think that we might be losing the concept here.
Locost.
Those with a budget for nicer bigger engines might buy a kit.
Then those like me might not - want the thrill of building the car and not really care how old tech their engine is.
The lower the tech, the easier its gonna be to use.
Its not uncommon for engines to last 130k+ in a modern car, and I dont see the sience that makes 40k a benchmark for getting past it.
When I had my mazda v6 new, I was told they take at least 6k miles to make full power. It was true. Thing was, when I got it changed at 80k miles, it
was still the same. No loss of performance. This car was driven full throttle thro the gears a lot to 7k and not treated gently.
My ancient old cologne with a certified 70k on the clock, being a slow old revver, isnt gonna suffer to much from age I think.
atb
Steve
As I paid 260 for the car and it makes 130 bhp, thats 2 quid per bhp. If it blows up at 100k and its driven 3 - 5 k miles a year, thats 6 - 10 years
life - and I bet I dont have it then.
To me thats good value. Spending hundreds on webbers and cams and other stuff for a bit more power isnt my plan.
others may be different
I think basically your question is confusing. It should be what engine, with money spent on it, will give good bhp per quid. As it stands, my smoky
sierra engine for 10 quid is hard to beat.
[Edited on 20/1/03 by stephen_gusterson]
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
I think basically your question is confusing.
all this talk of old engines new engines it aint that hard or expensive to put a new gaskets and rings into an engine if youve the haynes manual or if
you wanna splash out new bearins 2
and remember manufactures bhp quotes come from blueprinted everything perfect engines built in a workshop not the ones they throw into the car which
has been the 20th off a cast and thrown together on a production line
heard somewhere take 10% off manufactures quote to get closer to the real thing
I will try & deal with these in reverse order of posting.
Rebuilding engines, yes If you've built a car from scratch then building an engine is childsplay, once you've got the necessary machining done, about
£10/journal for grinding, £10-£15/bore for rebore. (about £150+VAT so far on std 4pot). Pistons about £40each (£80each for RV8)- so total = £310+.
then you also need to Cam bearings & on some motors the Little end bearings (about £60 each plus bearings & Vat) bearings = Big end £50 + Main £50 +
Cam £30.
Total = £500.
oil pump------------------£ 15
Gaskets (ALL) ----------£ 40
cam belt/chain ---------£ 10
tensioners(min) -------£ 10
Camshaft/follower kit £200
Total £775 +vat
AND we still have out old head, ok so we are luck it is a tuned head (cost somone £200-£300 at a guess) but it still needs pressure test,clean & skim
and a quick tart up on the valve seats, so there goes another £50.
Total = £825 + VAT and you've got to build it. once built your guarantee will be your self.
Now I'm fairly certain that the prices quoted above are somewhere about the right ball park,Although I know that there are some of you out there that
might be able to say differently, the prices might also be a lot more. However If you look through the ads you will find that you could probalby pick
up an exchange recon lump from the like of Ivor Searle/ Vega for less than it has cost you just to buy the parts and you get a twelve month unlimited
mileage waranty through out Europe, so if it goes bang on the way to Lemans you SHOULD (alledgedly) be covered.
Moral you could do the work yourself but generally it aint worth it. Even when you can buy at Trade prices like me.
As regards the milage that an engine has done, you've got drivers & then you've got Dryvwerzs.
70k mileage 1 lady owner (Chrysler Lotus Sunbeam, driven regularly to the shops by 60year old 2.5 miles each way). Engine will require rebuild before
being thrashed.
70k milage company rep vehicle 3 yrs old full service history. (MG Montego Turbo). Head, engine, turbo, replaced by dealers 3 times cos the idiot
never let the oil warm up before giving it the BIG RIGHT FOOT, once he buried the tubine spindle into the head!. Spent 18 months in the body shop
having the front end replaced (three times). (chap was also convinced that a 316 bmw was a V6 engine despite being shown that it was only 4 cylinders
and in line).
Ok modern engines & oils have improved drastically but personally I would not want to be the recipient of either of the above cars/engines or anything
that might have been driven by them. other than that If you buy second hand then try & use the best of your abilities to avoid dogs. Mileage is no
reflection of engine condition.
Enjoy.
Good post, Jolly. Personally if I was going to the trouble of building a Locost or any other car I would not want to use an old engine without any
kind of rebuilding, but that's my opinion and I know it isn't shared.
One thing about the RV8, an engine with which I have considerable experience, there's a very good chance (probably 75%) that a rebore will not be
necessary, although by the time you've done everything else that is it will still make a fair dent in your budget.
For some time now I have been of the opinion the bike engines probably offer the best power to pound ratio, and I was hoping more of the people who
know more about BEC's than I do (nearly everybody) would contribute some facts and figures (both cost and power)
John
If the original question was purely one of £ per BHP - a question to which myself and steve have given a few straight forward answers - it would be
straight forward but £ per BHP for a newer engine in good condition or a rebuilt engine is a much more vague question and much harder to answer as
condition is still an unknown for a newer engine - as Jolly GG has said - and rebuilding is an open ended option - just where do you stop.
My personal feelings on the matter are:
I am building to a budget (not the only reason I am building a locost as I want the satisfaction of doing it myself, but a major factor) and I would
sooner spend my budget on getting the chassis sorted and safe etc before I spent it on fancy engines.
I could, I have no doubt, get a far better 140-150 bhp than my cologne for a few hundred quid and certainly a lot lighter. However my 140-150 bhp is
still 140-150 however old or heavy the engine is, it develops bloody loads of torque and for a 40kg weight penalty I can spend that extra few hundred
quid I have saved on better suspension components. wheels, tyres, brakes etc and be safer and still not slow by any standards.
When the car is on the road I will certainly be looking at upgrading/modifying/rebuilding the powerplant and the whole project will be subject to
ongoing improvement and modification, I'm sure. I don't need an engine that even has tens of thousands of miles in it - I probably won't use it that
long.
By the way I have already bought a set of decent alloy wheels (second hand) and will be putting new (and decent tyres) on when the car hits the road
and it will still be faster than many locosts with more expensive, newer or better prepared lower BHP engines.
Just my humble opinion.
Cheers
Phil.
[Edited on 21/1/03 by philgregson]
quote:
Originally posted by philgregson
If the original question was purely one of £ per BHP - a question to which myself and steve have given a few straight forward answers - it would be straight forward but £ per BHP for a newer engine in good condition or a rebuilt engine is a much more vague question and much harder to answer as condition is still an unknown for a newer engine - as Jolly GG has said - and rebuilding is an open ended option - just where do you stop.
Oops Sorry - I understand now.
The concept of 'new' (or therabouts)engine in a locost just hadn't registered with me (as it had honestly never occured to me to use anything but an
older doner engine of some sort) and I'd mistaken rebuilt for modified and mis interpreted accordingly.
I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with a nearly new or rebuilt engine if it fits with your budget - just that in my low cost build it is an
option that I wouldn't have considered and was giving £/bhp options with that bourne in mind.
Phil.
[Edited on 21/1/03 by philgregson]
quote:
Originally posted by philgregson
I would sooner spend my budget on getting the chassis sorted and safe etc before I spent it on fancy engines.
[Edited on 21/1/03 by philgregson]
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
there's a very good chance (probably 75%) that a rebore will not be necessary, John
quote:
i think that we might be losing the concept here.
Locost.
quote:
Steve, I which mine was! With the money I have spent/will be spending on my Locost, I could probably afford to buy a 'pukka' kit.
I didnt, for two reasons. Firstly I wouldnt have built my own car, it would of been somebody elses creation that I have merely bolted together
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
so, basically, you are saying that, for a rover v8, you have 3 chances in four of taking the engine to bits and adding cost for no reason? (assuming of course bore
wear is an indication of the rest of the engines condition....)
Sorry steve but I did name 2 companies & niether of them are near or have anything to do with HEATHROW. They both deal Nationwide with companies of
repute and their technical back up is (IMO) superb. Also AFAIAA They back up their guarantees & their Engines come with ALL the gaskets Necessary to
fit.
Oh and usually next day delivery as well.
Enjoy.
jolly i was talkin bout just buildin to a standerd spec nothin 2 fancy just rings bearings and gaskets last i priced a cam for a x flow it was 80+vat
and a chain wit tensioner was 10 +vat and a full set of gaskets was less than 20+vat
if your tuning it as you go then i agree go buy 1 ready built i sat and priced stuff worked out a fiver cheaper than buying one of the shelf
Surprised no one has mentioned some of the big jap turbo'd engines, like the Supra which can be picked up for pennies almost. Reason being that people are scared of the costs when they blow a head gasket, which they all seem to eventualy. 300BHP in standard form with plenty more available by tuning.
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Surprised no one has mentioned some of the big jap turbo'd engines, like the Supra which can be picked up for pennies almost. Reason being that people are scared of the costs when they blow a head gasket, which they all seem to eventualy. 300BHP in standard form with plenty more available by tuning.
John.
I can understand that you might like to take an engine apart before you put it in a kit car, and if you had the tiome to do it, and the price of, not
always cheap, gasket sets, then go for it.
However, my car isnt a daily driver. it will be a 3k or so a year fun car.
It could be compared to a ten year old banger, like a wife or son might use to go to the shops or whatever. I wouldnt buy a 10 year old vauxhall and
take the engine to bits to check all was OK. Id just drive it and wait for it to show me a problem.
Just like im gonna do with my self build car.
atb
steve
quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
Sorry steve but I did name 2 companies & niether of them are near or have anything to do with HEATHROW. They both deal Nationwide with companies of repute and their technical back up is (IMO) superb. Also AFAIAA They back up their guarantees & their Engines come with ALL the gaskets Necessary to fit.
Oh and usually next day delivery as well.
Enjoy.
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
He wants to know what would be the best engine to get back to a newish state at a sensible price, with a good bhp per refurb cost.
Steve.
No offence meant M8, just trying to stop any confusion between posts.
John.
Sorry M8, but its all part of the fun & why they are called threads, they go in and out, backwards & forwards, sometimes they work,
sometimes..........
If everything always worked perfectly then there would be no point to anything.
Enjoy.
"We are sorry for the inconvenience" was the answer from the greater being in hitch hikers guide to the galaxy, when 42 wasnt a clear answer to the
meaning of life.
It took 4 book to get there tho!
Problem was, the answer 42 came out cos the question wasnt put to the computer in the right way "what is the meaning of life, the universe, and
everything' got 42 as an answer after the computer spent millions of years on it.
my final answer is in the above.
atb
steve
quote:
I'm looking at the overall package cost. Some Locost builders will be happy to use (case A) a donor engine as is, without the slightest refurbishment whatsoever, others (case B)might prefer to spend their time and money building a car around an engine which is either nearly new (still within manufactured spec) or rebuilt (brought back to manufactured spec).
Liam-
Yes thats what I meant.
Well put.
Phil.
quote:
Originally posted by Liam
To me that couldn't be further away from the Locost ethos.
quote:
engine is more important to a car than the condotion of a gearbox or axle.
Best sound in the world -------- You give it plenty of right foot as you select 1st and drop the clutch from a standing start on a hot day with sticky
tarmac. BANG is the sound as you stip ALL the teeth on the input shaft of your gearbox, except for 1 tooth which allows you to drive 10 miles home,
until you try & reverse it into the garage, the you can't go nowhere.
Enjoy.
Heh hee - speaking from experience? I wish I had experience like that - sounds like awesome fun.
I just get sodding knackered clutch release bearings 10 miles after I've only just taken the thing apart to put a new clutch plate in, and siezed
front callipers obliterating brand new brake pads
Some advice - never buy a french car. The stupid onion-guzzling ungrateful gits that they
are.
I've been toying with a V12 locost for a while as I have a Jag with good mechanics but poor body. Engine with box is about 650lb so I am looking at mods to the chassis design to take it. Any suggestions or should I just forget it
numpty by name, numpty by nature
Kingr
2.0 Pinto. Very cheap to buy, gearbox also cheap and no problem with adaptors etc., cheap to re-build if required, fairly easy to get 160bhp,
bottom-end is as tough as a very tough thing.
OK, so it's heavy, but cheap and reasonably powerful which is what the man wants.
Personally I'm using a 4AGE - I bought one perfect one from a runner with all injection, electrics, ECU etc for 100 quid, and one for spares for 60
quid. Not the most powerful engine by a long way, but it's small and not too heavy, and 120-odd BHP in a light car will feel fairly nippy. I also
think the 7k plus redline will suit the Locost's sporty nature.
Eddy
quote:
Originally posted by Numpty
I've been toying with a V12 locost for a while as I have a Jag with good mechanics but poor body. Engine with box is about 650lb so I am looking at mods to the chassis design to take it. Any suggestions or should I just forget it
quote:
Originally posted by eddymcclements
2.0 Pinto. Very cheap to buy, gearbox also cheap and no problem with adaptors etc., cheap to re-build if required, fairly easy to get 160bhp, bottom-end is as tough as a very tough thing.
OK, so it's heavy, but cheap and reasonably powerful which is what the man wants.
Personally I'm using a 4AGE - I bought one perfect one from a runner with all injection, electrics, ECU etc for 100 quid, and one for spares for 60 quid. Not the most powerful engine by a long way, but it's small and not too heavy, and 120-odd BHP in a light car will feel fairly nippy. I also think the 7k plus redline will suit the Locost's sporty nature.
Eddy
Yeah, well - the original posting was asking about a new or re-built engine, and I think a totally reconditioned Pinto still gives a lot of bank for
the buck.
A low-mileage, written-off Mondeo with a 1.8 or 2.0 Zetec would also be an idea, but post-'95 engines come with their own issues regarding emissions,
catalytic convertors etc. You'd also have to factor-in the mods required to convert to RWD (different clutch, adding a spigot bearing, different
waterpump etc).
Maybe a written-off Nissan 200ZX? Or a 3SGE from a Mk2 MR2 mated to a Supra gearbox?
Eddy
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
i recon its lunacy
a locost is a fast and nimble car
if anything needs a bike engine
putting a 550lb v12 in the fron - if its possible cos thats a mother of an engine.......would be completly against the concept.
bit like putting the vicar of dibley in a long jump competition
atb
steve
. Whats wrong with you people? A rover V8 weighs slightly more than a Pinto, gives 160bhp with no mods, and sounds like a porno soundtrack! An SDI donor
leaves a 5 speed gearbox, groovy interior, and more scrap metal than you can imagine. Provided it isnt rusted. Think people, think.
Actually, i should just shut up and whimper in the corner again...
I have been told thought that the LT77 gearbox used in the SD1 is a bit Massey Ferguson-esque in it's shift quality, not to mention being a tad
heavy.
I bought a Citroen BX 16 valve for 150 quid, sscrapped it myself and made about 80 quid on the deal. I haven't sodl the gearbox yet either as I'm
keeping it to get the crank angle sensor position. Apparrently the LDV Pilot van uses a 1.9 XU diesel engine (the BX has the alloy XU petrol lump) so
for about 40 quid I have a bellhousing which I could bolt to an LT77 but I have obtained a reconned Ford T9 for 50 quid from a mate so this
will get slotted in. So, I have a 160-165 ish bhp motor which will rev to 7500rpm plus its wiring loom and ECU for, well nothing or even plus 80 quid,
deduct the transmission cost and I'm still 30 quid up, deduct the cost of a bellhousing and it will have cost 10 quid. The XU is all alloy, 16 valve
and a modern design. What more could you want?
p.s. I picked up a secong engine/box combo from a local scrappy for 75 quid which I will rebuild, (hopefully) tweak somewhat and install once I have
the car built and running with the first engine in it.
quote:
Originally posted by Liam
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
i recon its lunacy
a locost is a fast and nimble car
if anything needs a bike engine
putting a 550lb v12 in the fron - if its possible cos thats a mother of an engine.......would be completly against the concept.
bit like putting the vicar of dibley in a long jump competition
atb
steve
Being against the original concept doesn't make it lunacy. It'll still be a damned light car - like an average locost with a couple of gents sitting on the bonnet! Will need a chassis a fair bit bigger and stronger than standard though. Think of it more as a US style roadster.
And who says a locost has to be light and nimble (not that a V12 locost wouldn't be compared to your average hot hatch)? You're a fine one to talk about that, eh stevo!! Go have a look in your garage
But then i thought the Patton tank-engined roadster that got linked to on TOL was cool.
Liam
[Edited on 28/2/03 by Liam]
quote:
My VX 16v was actually free once I had broke the rest of the car up and sold the bits and pieces. But it has still cost quite a bit of money to install ... I do wish I had now put a bike engine in my Locost.
wow
a thread from the dead!
atb
steve
After I took everything apart and greased it our LT77 seems to have a nice shift. Not sure what it'll be like on the move though.
...and a quote from me!
Geez, that was a loooong time ago, I was still building then...
Now I have had the car for on the road for nearly 18 months, I can honestly say the VX engine is a cracking motor. As an update to the thread, the S/H
webers needed rebuilding as they were in a shite state (but is good practise to do so anyway-think of it like fitting a new cambelt on an engine of
unknown history), and the MBE ignition module was knackered-and the proper spares were not available to repair it. But an 'electronic whizz'
Westy club member managed to work some magic on it (read bodge), and I got twelve months out of it, before it blew up again.
But after a while, you get bored...
In June of this year the car came off the road again for some upgrades-and besides, it was raining... A new MBE 3D igniton system to replace the now
totally dead one. A dry sump system from SBD. And a Quaife Clubman straight cut gearkit for good measure. Frighteningly, this little lot worked out at
half the original budget to put the car on the road in the first place...
I suppose what I am trying to say is the BHP/pound thing is somewhat irrelevant-it only ends up to be a pissing contest after all. The above mods to
the original spec have not gained me any more outright power as such. But it has lifted the overall ability of the car no end-for what I want to do
with it-and has given the car a sound foundation on which to carry out further mods.
The BEC route is likely to of given me a similar result for a lot less outlay, and a lot less hassle (dependant on the engine choice of course). But
I'm happy in the knowledge that most folk are spending a lot more money to go a lot slower on the average trackday...