eaton m45 supercharger on 2.0l zetec pics
Monkeybasher - 29/5/06 at 07:02 PM
Bearing in mind this isnt quite finished, but I'll admit it has definatly got a low cost look and feel to it
, a good clean would help. But it
works and i've been for a drive. Although I am waiting for a water pump for the charge cooler, a couple of pipes to replace the black ones, an
air filter, and possibly a bypass valve too, wherever you get those.
Does anybody know what boost this will be standard zetec(132mm) and mini pulley(65mm I think)? MAP was reading 140kpa.
Whats the max I can run safeish, as engines are less than a ton.
Setup
2.0l zetec throttle body
eaton m45
custom charge cooler
custom inlet joined to St170 inlet manifold
VW golf fuel pump
St170 fuel rail modded with return to take Ford probe fuel reg.
St170 injectors
Megasquirt ECU
Rough coversion Costs from GSXR TB
superpercharger £100
silicone pipes £65
custom inlet manifold £80
chargecooler/radiator £100ish
Total £345
Monkeybasher - 29/5/06 at 07:03 PM
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TPG - 29/5/06 at 07:08 PM
A Rolls Royce answer to the question is adiqu.Adikw.adiquw...Arse.Enough!Man thats a COOL 
Install.Keep up the good work
stevebubs - 29/5/06 at 07:10 PM
If the supercharger is under the inlet manifold, where is your alternator?
stevebubs - 29/5/06 at 07:14 PM
OK...couple more questions...
What size T/B have you used?
What is the rubber bit below from ?
In a similar vein, how have you got the outlet converted to round pipe?
Thx
Stephen
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Monkeybasher - 29/5/06 at 07:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by stevebubs
OK...couple more questions...
What size T/B have you used?
What is the rubber bit below from ?
In a similar vein, how have you got the outlet converted to round pipe?
Thx
Stephen
The alternator is lying on the garage floor just now. I have bought a small one off a vitara and this will be fitted eventually to the exhaust
side.
The throttle body is just one I had lying around I think off a 2.0l zetec.
The rubber pipe below the inlet manifold is from a land rover. This is getting replaced with a 3.5" to 2.5" silicone reducer comming from
the states. I couldnt find one here.
Unfortunatly I deleted the picture of the outlet from the supercharger. All I did was make a plate up to fit the outlet drilled a 60mm hole in it and
welded on a 60mm round pipe, not ideal but seems to work fine.
[Edited on 29/5/06 by Monkeybasher]
Monkeybasher - 29/5/06 at 07:30 PM
Also that land rover pipe isnt so great by the way, I did about ten miles all was fine then it popped off effectively giving me full throttle
. I
put it on again same thing happened. I wont be driviing it again until I get the silicone jobby, which should fit better.
James - 29/5/06 at 07:44 PM
[vader]
Impressive.... Most Impressive!
[/vader]
All I can say is Wow! A very cool 'Locost' style solution. Where's the charger from? A donor car or a 'special'?
Have you lowered the compression ratio of the engine? How? Spacer plate?
Sorry for so many questions! 
Cheers,
James
James - 29/5/06 at 07:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Monkeybasher
Also that land rover pipe isnt so great by the way, I did about ten miles all was fine then it popped off effectively giving me full throttle. I
put it on again same thing happened. I wont be driviing it again until I get the silicone jobby, which should fit better.
What about W
welding a few small ali blobs (no more than a millimetre or two high) onto the casing onto which the pipe sits- these would act to help stop the
jubilee clip/pipe coming.
Worked for my stainless water hoses!
HTH,
James
Monkeybasher - 29/5/06 at 07:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by James
[vader]
Impressive.... Most Impressive!
[/vader]
All I can say is Wow! A very cool 'Locost' style solution. Where's the charger from? A donor car or a 'special'?
Have you lowered the compression ratio of the engine? How? Spacer plate?
Sorry for so many questions!
Cheers,
James
The charger is from the mini cooper s loads on ebay, only done delivery miles.
I have not touched the compression, from what I have read if I can keep intake temps low, hence the charge cooler, then I would not need to lower the
compression unlike a turbo which tend to have higher intake temps. Time will tell if this is true
Cheers
Steve
Monkeybasher - 29/5/06 at 07:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by James
quote:
Originally posted by Monkeybasher
Also that land rover pipe isnt so great by the way, I did about ten miles all was fine then it popped off effectively giving me full throttle. I
put it on again same thing happened. I wont be driviing it again until I get the silicone jobby, which should fit better.
What about W
welding a few small ali blobs (no more than a millimetre or two high) onto the casing onto which the pipe sits- these would act to help stop the
jubilee clip/pipe coming.
Worked for my stainless water hoses!
HTH,
James
Not a bad idea. I'm hoping though that the new silicone pipe will be large enough to go over the lip at the edge od the charger. If not I may
grind this lip off to allow the pipe to go on further.
Danozeman - 29/5/06 at 08:43 PM
Looks good. Has it made alot of differnce to the performance??
Monkeybasher - 29/5/06 at 09:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Danozeman
Looks good. Has it made alot of differnce to the performance??
I haven't finished mapping yet and the charge cooler isnt working but I would say its slightly quicker than when it was on the throttle bodies.
Hopefully with the mapping done and the charge cooler working and maybe a smaller charger pulley it will be lots faster. If I can get to 200bhp+ I
will be happy. I think 220bhp would be the absolute max. The power does seems to be over a wider range already and I love the noise
MikeRJ - 29/5/06 at 10:14 PM
Very cool, but I think you will struggle to get a reliable 200bhp with stock compression ratio. Detonation is likely to become a problem above a few
PSI boost as the Zetec starts with about 10:1 CR.
rick q - 29/5/06 at 11:33 PM
For what it's worth, the last of the supercharged Toyota 4AGZE's (1600cc DOHC) ran 8.9:1 cr with forged pistons
bimbleuk - 30/5/06 at 07:29 AM
How much boost will depend on various factors including the CR, intercooling, supercharger efficiency and how good the spark/fuel control is.
Generally you shouldn't run more thn 6-7 psi on an un-mofified engine but again several factors will determine the boost you see. Heat is the key
so a well inter/charge cooled setup with an unrestrictive inlet path and an efficient supercharger design will always produce more power at similar
PSI than a badly designed install!
My import Celica 2ZZ-GE 1800cc engine ran a Blitz supercharger kit on a standard engine with 11.5:1 CR. The supercharger was not as efficient as the
Eaton but did have a massive front mount intercooler and a Blitz exchange ECU. No issues with det. even on 95 RON fuel and produced 230BHP @ 7800
RPM.
"Supercharged" is a good refence book for info by Corky Bell
bimbleuk - 30/5/06 at 07:34 AM
Oh and a bypass valve is a must IMHO for driveability/economy and in your instance to stop the inlet pipe blowing off when you lift off the throttle
quickly. Thats what I'm guessing is happening anyway.
I've have one in my parts stock but sorry I'm keeping it as I also have a Mini SC waiting to be installed sometime. I got mine direct from
Eaton as the official UK agent was useless.
andyharding - 30/5/06 at 12:34 PM
Looking good. I'm planning on using an M45 on a spare Zetec 1800 I have sitting in the garage.
I'll see about turning a dish into the pistons with a lathe to reduce CR so I can run more boost.
Also, was going to have the TB after the charger and use a dump valve for more fun sounds.
Why did you do it the way you have? What are the advantages / disadvantages?
Monkeybasher - 30/5/06 at 05:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by andyharding
Looking good. I'm planning on using an M45 on a spare Zetec 1800 I have sitting in the garage.
I'll see about turning a dish into the pistons with a lathe to reduce CR so I can run more boost.
Also, was going to have the TB after the charger and use a dump valve for more fun sounds.
Why did you do it the way you have? What are the advantages / disadvantages?
I'm not sure what the advantages of eithier are maybe somebody else will know. I suppose my throttle body could be moved easily if there was a
benefit. I was just copying the cooper s which is before.
One advantage of nearer the inlet manifold and after the charger is the hoses probably wont collapse before the throttle body, this is one problem I
have just now with all silicone pipes after the throttle body collapsing, bypass valve may sort this, but I'm not sure.
Another is the dump valve
Do you intend to run chargecooler or intercooler and is the dump valve instead of the bypass valve or as well as.
Cheers
Steve
[Edited on 30/5/06 by Monkeybasher]
andyharding - 30/5/06 at 07:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Monkeybasher
I'm not sure what the advantages of eithier are maybe somebody else will know. I suppose my throttle body could be moved easily if there was a
benefit. I was just copying the cooper s which is before.
One advantage of nearer the inlet manifold and after the charger is the hoses probably wont collapse before the throttle body, this is one problem I
have just now with all silicone pipes after the throttle body collapsing, bypass valve may sort this, but I'm not sure.
Another is the dump valve
Do you intend to run chargecooler or intercooler and is the dump valve instead of the bypass valve or as well as.
A bit more digging suggests the BMW charger has a built in bypass valve.
Also, running the charger after the TB means when not boosting it's in a vacuum which improves economy etc.
I would run an intercooler.
I think a bypass valve bleeds excess charge back into the rotors and is actuated either by reaching max boost and/or vacuum. The bypass valve limits
max boost. A dump valve vents excess boost upon a vacuum i.e. when throttle is closed. It will have no effect on max boost.
Will continue reading up...
atomic - 30/5/06 at 09:04 PM
An easier way to reduce compression than removing material from the piston surface would be to fit a thicker head gasket.
Unless you have the capability to remove precisely the same amount of material and rebalance the pistons then I can not recommend strongly enough you
do NOT do this as at best you will destroy your engine very, very quickly and at wrost you or someone elso could come to harm then the engine lets go.
Monkeybasher - 31/5/06 at 03:45 PM
I think its probably the later eaton chargers with the built in bypass valve versions 4/5. Which doesnt include mine.
.
I agree with atomic I think A decompression plate would be a much easier solution than machining pistons.
Is there not something about vauxhall pistons being used or something by the zetec turbo guys to lower compression.
Cheers
Steve
andyharding - 31/5/06 at 03:52 PM
It's easy enough to measure and remove same amount from each piston.
They could then be weighed on digital kitchen scales and easiliy balanced to a tolerance of 1g.
The only risk as I see it is making the crown so thin they melt through and that's not going to cause a spectacular blow-up.
andyharding - 31/5/06 at 03:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Monkeybasher
I think its probably the later eaton chargers with the built in bypass valve versions 4/5. Which doesnt include mine..
I agree with atomic I think A decompression plate would be a much easier solution than machining pistons.
Is there not something about vauxhall pistons being used or something by the zetec turbo guys to lower compression.
Cheers
Steve
In that case I think I'd swap it around so the TB is after the charger and plumb in a regualr dump valve.
Monkeybasher - 31/5/06 at 06:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by andyharding
quote:
Originally posted by Monkeybasher
I think its probably the later eaton chargers with the built in bypass valve versions 4/5. Which doesnt include mine..
I agree with atomic I think A decompression plate would be a much easier solution than machining pistons.
Is there not something about vauxhall pistons being used or something by the zetec turbo guys to lower compression.
Cheers
Steve
In that case I think I'd swap it around so the TB is after the charger and plumb in a regualr dump valve.
How would the dump valve work, would it be a short phsss, or a long continuous ppppppppppppppphhhhhhhhhhsssssssss.
Could you tell me how to plumb it up. I presume the dump valve would go before the tb, with a vacuum hose to after the throttle body, then either
vent to air or back to before the supercharger inlet???
Steve
andyharding - 31/5/06 at 06:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Monkeybasher
How would the dump valve work, would it be a short phsss, or a long continuous ppppppppppppppphhhhhhhhhhsssssssss.
Could you tell me how to plumb it up. I presume the dump valve would go before the tb, with a vacuum hose to after the throttle body, then either
vent to air or back to before the supercharger inlet???
Steve
No idea to be honest. A big tissshhh would be nice!
Yes, DV before TB with a vacuum line to after. That way when the DV sees vacuum (ie closed throttle) it vents the excess boost. A recirculating DV
would be quieter.
bimbleuk - 1/6/06 at 01:02 PM
I can highly recommend the book I mentioned earlier as it covers all the possible install setups and a lot lot more.
With a fixed displacement supercharger such as a roots (Eaton/Mini) or a twin screw unless you are using a clutch you want the TB before the blower.
The bypass valve allows the pressure to equalise either side if the SC when the throttle is shut (or even part closed). The SC just pushes air around
in a circuit but as its not under load its also not heating the air as much either. This also reduces parasitic loses again as the SC is effectively
"free wheeling" when its not required to produce boost.
Turbos (or centrifugal blowers) can more readily work behind the TB as air can flow back through the impellor when you lift off the throttle.
Marcus - 1/6/06 at 02:20 PM
Bollox 
I wish I hadn't read this post - I want a supercharged crossflow now!!
Acres of room under the bonnet, and the alternator's on the right (left) side.
I was just getting my head round Megasquirt, now this!!
Bas****s
Marcus
bimbleuk - 1/6/06 at 07:16 PM
Yep superchargers/turbos can be addictive. Several of my previous cars have been either but mostly superchared.
I've had several mini superchargers pass through my hands (still got one under the stairs!) but oddly I've never actually fitted one. Never
liked the bulky design due to the integrated water pump drive.
I've been waiting to fit a Rotrex on my Striker and as my tuning garage have worked on three installs recently with decent results I think its
about to time to go ahead
Monkeybasher - 1/6/06 at 11:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Marcus
Bollox
I wish I hadn't read this post - I want a supercharged crossflow now!!
Acres of room under the bonnet, and the alternator's on the right (left) side.
I was just getting my head round Megasquirt, now this!!
Bas****s
Marcus
somebody done it to me and I'm glad.
Once you've sussed the megasquirt its a straight forward move to a supercharger, so much less work and time involved IMO to slap a charger on
than getting megasquirt built, working and understood. I still dont feel nearly as confident as I'd like too.
[Edited on 1/6/06 by Monkeybasher]
Monkeybasher - 1/6/06 at 11:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by bimbleuk
The bypass valve allows the pressure to equalise either side if the SC when the throttle is shut (or even part closed). The SC just pushes air around
in a circuit but as its not under load its also not heating the air as much either. This also reduces parasitic loses again as the SC is effectively
"free wheeling" when its not required to produce boost.
Would a normal recirculating dump valve do the job of a bypass valve? I have searched and searched for bypass valves without much success. I would
prefere one of these because then I could T it in anywhere.
Assuming you can use a recirc dump valve would it T in before the supercharger and have a pipe off to after the charger and the vacuum hose to after
the charger.
...Or T it in after the charger and have a pipe running back to before the charger and vacuum to after the charger.
Also I bought a smaller pulley today for the supercharger. For interest the standard zetec and mini supercharger produce about 5psi ish on mine
anyway. I still need to work out the igntion map too not a strong point for me, more reading ahead.
Steve
bimbleuk - 2/6/06 at 09:54 AM
This is the one I ordered from the states and it worked well on my Blitz kit installed on my Celica.
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/bypass.htm
As its just a vacuum operated butterfly valve I don't see why a piston type recirculating dump valve wouldn't work. You could get one in a
scrappy from a factory turbo car to test.
You just need to T in a pipe before and after the supercharger and put the signal/vacuum pipe to the inlet plenum.
