Hi All,

I've got a problem with the cooling system on my Fuel injected Pinto. I'm using a Micra Rad and fan.

The Problem is, the temperature guage just keeps rising and rising, I'm pretty sure that is it not accurate as the car gets up to 230F, and it doesn't seem to be boiling, putting the fan on, slows the progress of the rise, but doesn't stop it. So far I have tried with no success

1.. Taking out the thermostat
2 .. raising the position of the Header tank (was below the top pipe, now above it)
3 .. Re-plump as the image below.

The fan does not seem to come on itself, but if I stop the engine, the fan kicks in for a few seconds then switches off again.

The biggest problem is that when I do switch off the engine, water pees out of the overflow pipes (either on the radiator, or on the header tank)

I'm lost, I'm thinking getting another radiator (either another micra as the current one was secondhand, or a polo, but that will mean a lot of re-plumbing and a new fan) but I'm worried that after spending £40-80 on a new rad, it still won't solve the problems.

Any help gratefully recieved.

Regards

Scott

coolant sys

Before doing anything else you need to establish if the engine is really getting hot or if the gauge is not matched t the sender.

It does seem strange that your fan doesn't kick in as this would suggest that it is not getting hot.

You seem to have the exact setup as me, I get very hot, but never actually overheat. I am going to try a few things to cool things down - I'll keep you posted

I'm just confused as to why I when I stop the engine, it spits out so much water, the level in the header rises a little when the car is running, but after it is stopped it overflows.

[Edited on 15/7/06 by phoenix70]

Hi Scott, I too expect your gauge is reading wrongly but you probably need an overflow bottle to sort things out. Look here (if it works!) on Dave Andrews site. Bottle

I have a setup using a Mk2 Escort radiator running the bleed from the top of the thermostat to the header tank neck and the pipe from the radiator neck to an expansion bottle. I didn't use a header tank before but it was a pain taking the nosecone off to top up. The pressure cap is on the radiator and a screw cap on the header.

Does the Micra Rad have two or three connections? My Polo Rad has three and the header tank is pressurised and part of the circuit.

The Micra Rad only has the two connections

Can't see how you are bleeding the air out of the rad when running. Looks like air will gather there and reduce cooling flow through the engine. Then heat soak on stopping blows the water out. I would suggest getting rid of the header tank and fit a simple overflow with 'suckback'. Main advantage is it gives a system which will bleed air from the rad while driving. This assumes the micra rad has a pressure cap with overflow on the top.

[Edited on 16/7/06 by Dusty]
Rescued attachment Coolantsys.jpg

Sounds like you have an air lock. The top of the expansion tank needs to go to the little pipe on the termostat housing. Also, check this isn't blocked with silt.



Installed 3

[Edited on 16/7/06 by andyharding]

Ok Tonight I felt brave, so I have re-plumbed the cars as per AndyHarding's suggestion and decided just to let it run. I watch the guage climb up to 230F (110 c) and then low and behold the fan kicked in, the out, then in, then out. The fan would come on for a few seconds, then switch itself off again. but no overflowing at the header, so I'm feeling a little more confident, although I would like the fan to come on a little earlier, so I may try and find another thermoswitch for the rad, and I would really like a more accurate temperature guage too.

[Edited on 17/7/06 by phoenix70]

Temperature gauge inaccuracy is normally down to earthing...

Try running an earth cable from the temperature sender to the earth on the gauge. This should then give a common earth and a "true" reading...

What temp switch do you have in at the moment?

quote:

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Originally posted by andyharding
What temp switch do you have in at the moment?

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Either on one of the flats of the nut or on the end of the thread (requires removal) it should have the temp stamped on it. There will be 2 numbers i.e. 105-102 this means it turns on at 105C and off at 102C.

I have a couple of spares here and a list of part numbers for different temps. I couldn't get the stat working right in the rad so bought a top hose adaptor from Burtons and mounted right after the thermostat housing. I'm using a 97C cut in and it works great. The temp never gets above 100C.

Andy,

What problems did you have getting the rad thermoswitch to work?

Got any part number for the Burtons stuff you got to replace the rad thermoswitch

Cheers

Scott

I used a Polo rad upside down so the stat was on the out side and didn't get hot enough.

Burton part # PACETCA2228

If you have a friendly local motor factor they should be able to check for a thermoswitch with more suitable operating temperatures.

Often on sierras the small inlet on the expansion bottle gets clogged, if you are using it, just clean it out.

Well I've had my car out on the road a bit now, and it seems to be spitting a lot of water out of the radiator cap. It doesn't do this when its stationary (I've let it heat right up and it still doesn't lose any water) but on a 20 mile drive, it loses about a litre of water. I don't really understand why, as it seems to empty the expansion bottle completely. Any Ideas?

One thought has come to mind, I've still got the micra rad cap on the radiator, as well as a pressure relief cap on the header tank, should I lose one of these?

Cheer

Scott


[Edited on 26/7/06 by phoenix70]

btt

I dont know if this will help but here goes anyway.

I have a Pinto. Also have Micra rad with built in fan switch. My gauge is ETB DD2 with the water sender in std position above dizzy. Cooling system doesnt have one of those sealed header tanks. All of points below assume correct antifreeze and filled to avoid air locks.

At first the pressure cap on rad vented to atmosphere. Engine was crudded up. Water was very brown. Didnt cool effectively but weather was cool atthis point. It always blew about a litre of water out whist trying to find its own level. Not good as water level (i think) fell below level of fan switch.

Later i flushed system thoroughly. Had to remove plugs from block and push wire in etc to clear most of crud. Now water not Brown. Still blew water out but not as bad and cooling improved.

I have now fitted a trial bottle (pop bottle) and pipe from rad cap overflow. Bottle is 1.5Litre. I placed 0.5litre water in bottom, end of pipe fully submerged. Filled rad to top. Ran for 100 miles and rad sucked water in from bottle. Topped bottle back up to 1/3rd mark. Ever since no problems (further 200 miles in hottest weather possible for NE England).

Normal driving - temp rises to approx 98deg max on gauge. Fan kicks in at 95 and off at 93 ish. I bought new rad fan switch from Halfrauds, from memory it has 85 / 88 engraved in it or at least somewhere around this mark.

On track ive recorded 110deg water temp but this didnt concern me.

I have also since fitted fan override switch for those moments where you have had a spirritted blat and then hit stationary traffic (ie every time you go to a show!).

When discussing temps you have to be mindful that no 2 cars are alike ref sensors, cooling configuration, gauges environmental conditions etc so guide only.

OK - if i was you id try making sure no air locks (this is tricky), and fit a bottle. Check out the fan switch in rad and consider fitting an adjustable one if problems persist. I cant help thinking that assuming the cooling is essentailly ok that you have a gauge problem. It is quite feasible for this to display high temps when in fact all is well.
I dont have any exhaust wrap, water wetter and rad shields. Iam considering them but to date havent felt an urgent need. I have however fitted bonnet vents and also vented the lower part of nose cone to allow air to flush out the engine bay better.

Does this help?

Thanks Darren for the reply.

A Quick question for you. I assume you are using the standard Micra fan as well, if so, is it a suck fan or a blow fan. Mines blows, but I read a message from Hellfire on here that its a suck fan, so it's got me thinking, I've got my fan wired up wrong.

I may try the overflow tank, but I don't think I should need one, cause the header tank I've got fitted should allow for expansion of the water. I'm thinking of removing the pressure valve from the top of the radiator, that should stop it spitting the water out there and hopefully it will just expand into the header tank. The reason I fitted the header tank was to avoid air locks, as the header tank is the highest point of the system

Have you got any picture of your vents, I think I may need to do this too, as the nosecone gets very hot

[Edited on 27/7/06 by phoenix70]

You only need one pressure cap, which should be fitted to the highest inlet of the two you've got. You can get a cheap dummy cap that just closes the hole, rather than having a sprung valve.

I would strongly recommend the overflow tank - my engine pushes out roughly 1/2 litre of water when very hot, but pulls the same amount back on cooling. You can get away without it - many do, apparently - but it's so cheap and easy to rig up that you might as well do it. My tank cost me £1 from a scrappy, including the bit of rubber tube to connect it up!

David

Fitted a Blank radiator cap to the micra rad and clamped the overflow pipe then refilled the system to the minimum in the header tank, took it for blat, it still heats up and the fan doesn't seem capable of bringing the temparature down, but it isn't spewing water out any more (probably cause it's nowhere to go) and on the roads it seems better.

Going to re-fit the thermostat next to see if that helps the cooling.

Cheers

Sounds like one good step forward.

Now I suggest that you check your temp sender & gauge - it may be lying to you!

David

Just spotted this post:

LINK

It reminded me that there's another thing you can look at - the fan belt. If it's a bit slack it won't spin the water pump very well, causing overheating.

David

I dont have the std Micra fan, ive used an aftermarket one of unknown pedigree (a mate had it lyiong about). It is a blow type fitted in front of the rad. Ill guess its about 11" diameter. When on the floor its capable of lifting itself off the flow - dont know if this is indicative of strength but it does seem powerful (it has several blades and has SPAL moulded into the casing). Rad thermostatic switch is std as far as i know. Fan kicks in at 95 and off at 93 (ive took note better to try and help you out). I dont have an expansion tank fitted hance why i have what is probs best described as an overflow bottle (actually an empty crap pop bottle). Without bottle mine too blew approx half a litre out onto road - now it doesnt, just into the bottle and then seems to suck it back in when cooling down after a blat.

You can check if the fan is correct way round by using a smoke source, a mate checked it with cigarette smoke for me.

I still have a sneaky feeling your gauge is telling you porkies but dont know a quick way to check that. It may also be that the fan switch in the rad is too high a temperature or is not covered by the water. Ref std thermostat in engine ive heard of people running without in summer no problem. Ive also heard of people drilling a small 3 or 4mm bypass hole in it.
Assuming no air locks and plumbing is OK i kind of guess you should be safe.

Are you utilising the std water temp sender location and is the sender itself matched to the gauge? Are they new or could they be old and inaccurate at all.

I was just thinking, is your water nice and clean or brown and crappy. Not many Pintos are perfectly clean but a flush can be worthwhile - solved some of my earlier problems. I was horrified when i removed a block plug and nothing came out. I had to scrape / push around with a terminal driver and then get some witre in the hole to clear crud from the bottom of the block water jacket. Apparently this happens if someone in the past has been running without antifreeze, the rust etc just collects and sets hardish.

quote:

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Originally posted by DarrenW
I dont have an expansion tank fitted hance why i have what is probs best described as an overflow bottle (actually an empty crap pop bottle). Without bottle mine too blew approx half a litre out onto road - now it doesnt, just into the bottle and then seems to suck it back in when cooling down after a blat.

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quote:

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Originally posted by DarrenW
You can check if the fan is correct way round by using a smoke source,

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quote:

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Originally posted by DarrenW
I still have a sneaky feeling your gauge is telling you porkies but dont know a quick way to check that. It may also be that the fan switch in the rad is too high a temperature or is not covered by the water. Ref std thermostat in engine ive heard of people running without in summer no problem. Ive also heard of people drilling a small 3 or 4mm bypass hole in it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by David Jenkins
Sounds like one good step forward.

Now I suggest that you check your temp sender & gauge - it may be lying to you!

David

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quote:

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Originally posted by DarrenW
Are you utilising the std water temp sender location and is the sender itself matched to the gauge? Are they new or could they be old and inaccurate at all.

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quote:

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Originally posted by DarrenW
I was just thinking, is your water nice and clean or brown and crappy.

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A Quick update for anyone interested.

Stuck flush in the rad to flush it out, that improved the situation, but the car was still slowly heating up all the time (funny thing, it actually cooled better, the faster I went). The next step I decided to do was to make a cowling for around the radiator to force air entering the nosecone through the radiator instead of around, and what a difference that made, it still heats up quickly when stationary, but on the move, the car sits a constant 90c. The last thing I'm thinking of doing is adding some water wetter just to give a little extra cooling ability.


Thanks to everyone for there suggestion and help, now I can enjoy my car without watching the temperature gauge all the time

Cheers

Scott