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zetec turbo conversion
diyer - 10/8/07 at 10:57 PM

hello all,
trying to put together a turbo conversion for my 2.0l blacktop zetec.

I have started mocking things up on a spare engine.

I intend to run it through a megasquirt system as the current EEC V will not be capable.

I want to keep the original compression ratio and run a low boost level of no more than 10psi with knock control.

I have no room in the lightweight for a air/air intercooler, but i have a water air heat exhanger available, and was going to run a seperate cold pumped cooling system with a motorbike rad and fan mounted in the rear.

The manifold is from a 1.6l zetec, as i recall 97ish vintage escort??. The turbo is 1.8l k series rover.


What you reckon????


thanks
Simon

scutter - 11/8/07 at 05:22 AM

I assume that you've read THIS site.

ATB Dan.

diyer - 11/8/07 at 08:09 AM

This is how far i have got so far Rescued attachment DSC00340a.jpg
Rescued attachment DSC00340a.jpg

diyer - 11/8/07 at 08:10 AM

Another pic. Rescued attachment DSC00336a.jpg
Rescued attachment DSC00336a.jpg

muzchap - 11/8/07 at 08:31 AM

Hi mate,

I decided against turbo'ing my 7 for lots of reasons - the main one being driveability.

These Zetecs can produce upto 300horses and come in with a bang - not much fun in a tail happy 7!

My advice:

1) Get a Rover Turbo inlet manifold - the ports line up pretty well and only a slight re-fab needed.

2) You'll need a pressure resistant throttle body, it's preferable to swap the Rover one for a Ford one

3) M$ is capabale of running this - but you'd need to take it to a specialist tuner - if I had the money - I'd consider Emerald and Dave Walker - he's awesome! What's an extra £1000 for a reliable 250hp+ car!!! (ecu+rolling road)

4) Get a 'decompression' plate - you'll kill the engine otherwise - on ebay for around 60 quid. You'll also need 2 RS Focus multilayer head gaskets - that will drop the compression enough to run the pressure you are looking at.

5) If that's the rover turbo - comes in at around 2000 rpm and produces all its torque at around 3500 - awesome little turbo's - GOOD CHOICE

I recently sold all my Zetec Turbo stuff and went Honda S2000 - I might be tempted to supercharge that - lol.

As for the cooling - hmm not sure that will be sufficient - I'd look for a focus RS Intercooler - mount it in the engine bay against the scuttle - fit a thin rad on top of your rad - there's a company in Nottingham who can do this fabrication and dead cheap too.

I measured it all up - all fitted perfectly with the Focus RS Intercooler - and the pipework was nice and short too - which helps with any lag

HTH

Fatboy Dave - 11/8/07 at 09:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by muzchap
Hi mate,

I decided against turbo'ing my 7 for lots of reasons - the main one being driveability.

These Zetecs can produce upto 300horses and come in with a bang - not much fun in a tail happy 7!


You've obviously not picked the best combination of parts then. There's no reason a turbo se7en should be any less drivable than any other. I had no problems with my 1.8 turbo Zetec when I had it.

quote:
2) You'll need a pressure resistant throttle body, it's preferable to swap the Rover one for a Ford one


As he's going for Megasquirt, there's no need to do this.

quote:
3) M$ is capabale of running this - but you'd need to take it to a specialist tuner - if I had the money - I'd consider Emerald and Dave Walker - he's awesome! What's an extra £1000 for a reliable 250hp+ car!!! (ecu+rolling road)


I mapped mine myself with a wideband. Take it to a tuner if you want, but it's not really necessary if you have the tools to do it yourself. Dunno where you get £1000 to map it from though? My entire engine and turbo conversion came to less than that.

quote:
4) Get a 'decompression' plate - you'll kill the engine otherwise - on ebay for around 60 quid. You'll also need 2 RS Focus multilayer head gaskets - that will drop the compression enough to run the pressure you are looking at.


You can turbo the stock CR without too many problems. Just make sure the fueling is spot on and the chargecooling is doing what it should. ideally stay in single figures - with the higher CR you need to run less boost anyway to get similar results.

quote:
5) If that's the rover turbo - comes in at around 2000 rpm and produces all its torque at around 3500 - awesome little turbo's - GOOD CHOICE


It's a Garrett GT20 from the Rover 75 1.8T. I'd be more concerned that it's rather small for the application myself. I wouldn't want to be pushing that beyond 200bhp myself...

quote:
As for the cooling - hmm not sure that will be sufficient - I'd look for a focus RS Intercooler - mount it in the engine bay against the scuttle - fit a thin rad on top of your rad - there's a company in Nottingham who can do this fabrication and dead cheap too.


The way I do it is to use a charge cooler from those eBay poo merchants XS Power. They're actually very good, and for 90 quid posted you can't argue. Couple that with a Shur-Flo caravan waterpump and a bike rad, you won't go wrong.

diyer - 13/8/07 at 06:04 AM

Thsnks for the information and comments

Cheers
Simon

britishtrident - 13/8/07 at 07:00 AM

Just to add it is a Rover 820 4 cylinder, 220 420 or 620Ti inlet that is required (ie T16 engine not K16),
Turbo and Non-Turbo versions of the manifold are essentially the same.

muzchap - 13/8/07 at 08:13 AM

Hi Simon,

I guess it all depends on your level of expectation.

Dave has put forward some suggestions that just because he did it without a rolling road you wouldn't need it.

I'm giving you an average scenario - yeah the Megasquirt is good - but it does have limitations - if it was TRULY brilliant why aren't RACE teams using it? They use Emerald - why? - because its a proven product with an expert rolling road technician behind it.

As for mapping yourself with a wideband lambda - fair play - but why would companies including all major manufacturers spend millions (probably billions) on mapping if you could do it reliably for £140 wideband sensor?

I like this forum for its ingenious use of resources and money saving ideas - but sometimes the suggestions are that just because one person did it - it's a blueprint aren't always that realistic and achievable.

And - if the 1.8 Turbo Zetec was so great - why did Dave say "It was alright when I had it" meaning it's now no longer being used?

I'm sure you'll reach your own conclusions - anyway best of luck!

[Edited on 13/8/07 by muzchap]

Fatboy Dave - 13/8/07 at 12:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by muzchap

Dave has put forward some suggestions that just because he did it without a rolling road you wouldn't need it.


Indeed I did, and you don't. Megatune has an autotune function for a reason.

quote:
I'm giving you an average scenario - yeah the Megasquirt is good - but it does have limitations - if it was TRULY brilliant why aren't RACE teams using it?


Oh p*ss off! What kind of justification is that? Is that the best you can come out with? Just because a race team doesn't use it means it's no good? Sorry, but that's just the most pointless excuse ever. I bet you buy "RACE proven" parts too?

quote:
They use Emerald - why? - because its a proven product with an expert rolling road technician behind it.


So, therefore, everyone has to use it, because it's competant? Sorry, doesn't work like that.

quote:
As for mapping yourself with a wideband lambda - fair play - but why would companies including all major manufacturers spend millions (probably billions) on mapping if you could do it reliably for £140 wideband sensor?


Major manufacturers don't build cars from bits of recycled Ford saloon cars. And besides, my local rolling road uses the same £140 wideband as I do.

quote:
I like this forum for its ingenious use of resources and money saving ideas - but sometimes the suggestions are that just because one person did it - it's a blueprint aren't always that realistic and achievable.


The site is called Locost Builders. The hint is in the title. There are not many RRs that like touching MS due to its infinite flexibility and the fact that no two are ever quite the same. The whole point is it's a DIY system. The guy wanted MS for a reason; if he wanted to pay someone else for their time I expect he would have bought something else.

quote:
And - if the 1.8 Turbo Zetec was so great - why did Dave say "It was alright when I had it" meaning it's now no longer being used?


You now want to pick holes in my car? Got you on your high horse have I?

You're right. it's no longer being used. It's sat forlorn in the corner of my garage. I was 'OK' in use.

I now have a 2.1 with forged pistons, which is 'better'.

diyer - 13/8/07 at 04:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Just to add it is a Rover 820 4 cylinder, 220 420 or 620Ti inlet that is required (ie T16 engine not K16),
Turbo and Non-Turbo versions of the manifold are essentially the same.


Thanks, but i actually already have a forward facing custom mande plenum that i am running at the moment for the zetec.

Cheers
simon

muzchap - 16/8/07 at 11:37 AM

Dave - I don't remember you from the past - so I guess you're a new addition.

Most professional wideband kits come in at around £3-5k ???

quote:

Oh p*ss off! What kind of justification is that? Is that the best you can come out with? Just because a race team doesn't use it means it's no good? Sorry, but that's just the most pointless excuse ever. I bet you buy "RACE proven" parts too?


Er nope - actually I purchased a Honda S2000 engine and gearbox running stock ECU. I'm just saying that most 'RACE' parts eventually end up in production cars and are then used by us in kitcars. I'm not slating the M$ just saying - that if the guy is worried about lunching an engine - then £1k for an ecu and rolling session is cheap.

quote:

The site is called Locost Builders. The hint is in the title. There are not many RRs that like touching MS due to its infinite flexibility and the fact that no two are ever quite the same. The whole point is it's a DIY system. The guy wanted MS for a reason; if he wanted to pay someone else for their time I expect he would have bought something else.


Exactly, that's the point I'm making - he might be thinking it's an easy job getting this all up and running - he could conceivably trash his engine! JUST because YOU managed it - doesn't for one second qualify that this guy will - unless of course you're offering to go map it for him (you might get lucky here DI-YER)

I don't want to get into an argument with you - just saying - there's always 2 sides to every story - yes you were lucky with yours - but there's probably a few people out there with blown engines that wished they hadn't tried themselves!

I've just finished using a Zetec on Gixer TB's with a MegaSquirt - it was brilliant - such a punchy, torquey engine - but I spent the money and had mine mapped with the M$ - Others have benefited as I give my map away free to anybody who asks - I'm just saying unless you are 100% competent (which obviously you must be) self mapping can be quite tricky!

Hope this doesn't result in a flame war!

Cheers,

Murray


[Edited on 16/8/07 by muzchap]

Fatboy Dave - 16/8/07 at 04:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by muzchap
Dave - I don't remember you from the past - so I guess you're a new addition.


====================
Fatboy Dave
Senior Builder

Posts 381
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Location Somewhere near oxygen and pies
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Photo Archive Go!
Building: Beer gut :-)

====================

muzchap
Senior Builder

Posts 944
Registered 11/7/05
Location Peterborough / London
Member Is Offline

Photo Archive Go!
Building: Luego Zetec done - Luego S2000 on the way


I think you'll find that I joined, did a while posting and helping, then left for pastures new before you even joined...

quote:
Most professional wideband kits come in at around £3-5k ???


Yes, but you don't buy a 'professional' wideband set for home tuning. The Innovate et al are all as capable and cheaper. This is a DIY hobby after all.

quote:
Er nope - actually I purchased a Honda S2000 engine and gearbox running stock ECU. I'm just saying that most 'RACE' parts eventually end up in production cars and are then used by us in kitcars. I'm not slating the M$ just saying - that if the guy is worried about lunching an engine - then £1k for an ecu and rolling session is cheap.


Errrrm, still deeply flawed logic. Besides, you're talking out of turn here - this isn't a 'RACE' tuned high £ engine; it's a donor special Zetec that can be replaced for £200 without effort; it's not WORTH a grands worth of ECU and mapping when there is plenty of experiance and maps to sort him out with an MS.

quote:
Exactly, that's the point I'm making - he might be thinking it's an easy job getting this all up and running - he could conceivably trash his engine! JUST because YOU managed it - doesn't for one second qualify that this guy will - unless of course you're offering to go map it for him (you might get lucky here DI-YER)


The offer of any of my turbo maps is open to anyone. However, once you've finished patronising both me and him, he has actually just modified his manifold, and he's built the car, so I think a little credit is due.

quote:
I don't want to get into an argument with you - just saying - there's always 2 sides to every story - yes you were lucky with yours - but there's probably a few people out there with blown engines that wished they hadn't tried themselves!


Those are the ones who don't ask for advice, research, or heed the warning signs. They get little sympathy. Mapping an engine is not to be taken lightly, it takes concentration by anyone who does it.

quote:
I've just finished using a Zetec on Gixer TB's with a MegaSquirt - it was brilliant - such a punchy, torquey engine - but I spent the money and had mine mapped with the M$ - Others have benefited as I give my map away free to anybody who asks - I'm just saying unless you are 100% competent (which obviously you must be) self mapping can be quite tricky!


Great, thanks for the justification. Welcome to where I was three years ago.

quote:
Hope this doesn't result in a flame war!


Indeed, however, a more open and less abrasive attitude than "you'll have to buy it and spend a grand on it" attitude wouldn't have come amiss, especially given the site you're on. Perhaps from both of our parts...?

zetec7 - 22/8/07 at 06:42 PM

Everybody, KEEP YOUR HEADS DOWN UNTIL THE SHOOTING STOPS!! They have to stop to reload sooner or later!

Fatboy Dave - 22/8/07 at 06:45 PM

The heated debate stopped six days ago...

diyer - 24/8/07 at 06:32 PM

Update,

I have chargecooler pump, radiator and fan for the cooler, and boost control valve.
Only need to purchase the megasquirt kit and knock controller. and i will have some bolt on power!!!

Simon