Taking this out of the breather discussion. All ref 205 blocked 2.0 Pinto.

My sump from block face to bottom (external face) is 145mm deep. I have 100mm of oil in it. This leaves 45mm max above the oil level to clear the crank.


Does anyone have a block assy in garage so that they can tell me how far the crank lobes protrude below the sump block face please?


I dont suppose anyone has the depth of their sump measured and knows how much oil they put in it do they (ie height of the oil).

Another way to confirm is via the dipstick. My tube is visible by 300mm. The stick is 420mm long from the end to where it sits in the tube (bottom of nylon bit). The oil is 45mm from the bottom of the dipstick on mine - ie 375mm down from the top of the dipstick tube.


Thanks in advance,
Darren.

[Edited on 4/10/07 by DarrenW]

i'll have a look at my spare block when i get in the garage on saturday and let you know if nobody else has done so before

Centre of main bearings is on the same level as the bottom of the block.

Stroke is 76.9mm, so half that (38.45) gives you the centre of the big end below the centre of the mains. Plus the radius of the big ends, which is about 19mm is more than 45mm, before you get the conrod on there. So you are probably breaking the surface of the oil when the engine is running.

However, when the engine is running not all of the oil is in the sump, its probably only about half full. So it should be clear.

If I remember I will measure the length of my dipstick for you tonight.

David

quote:

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Originally posted by flak monkey
So you are probably breaking the surface of the oil when the engine is running.

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If you want some reassurance.........my XE sump is about 70mm deep.............

lord knows how much oil the crank is whirling about but it has a scraper/windage tray fitted to keep it under control, and with no oil seperator on the breather it doesn't throw any out.

Darren if you put the oil to the top mark on the dip stick the oil will be at the right height
My dip stick is from the top of the tube 440mm to top mark and 460mm to the bottom mark the tube is 300mm long from top to block
Graham

quote:

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Originally posted by jacko
the tube is 300mm long from top to block

My dip stick is from the top of the tube 440mm to top mark

Graham

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quote:

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Originally posted by DarrenW
My tube is visible by 300mm.

The stick is 420mm long from the end to where it sits in the tube (bottom of nylon bit).

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Thanks Graham,

Oh heck, my tube is same length @ 300mm but stick would seem to be quite a lot different. My top level mark on dipstick from top of the tube is only 375mm and 400mm to the lower level. If your top mark is 440mm then i could heve 65mm more oil in if i calculate correctly to the top mark. As the oil is only 45mm from the top of the sump, using Flaks measurements it would seem ive overfilled.

Anyone else got any dipstick measurements?

As i say im not entirely sure if my stick is correct as the engine is out of a granada - hence checking.

Just checked i have two sticks and there both the same size both 20l pintos
Graham

Ive just been up to andy d's. His stick is same as yours Graham. My old stick however is 420 / 445mm which kind of explains why i had minor issues before but now its far worse.


Ive also roughly measured a block tonight and expevt the crank to be about 55mm below block surface. At rest the crank sits in the oil, running im not sure but it must be close.

What i do know is that Andy reports he runs oil level at mid point and gets no breathing issues, however 10mm higher and it starts to breath a bit of oil. Iam currently 70mm higher than this!!!!! Its been hard to believe so ive double checked and made scale drawings but it seems right.


The puzzler now is what stick have i got (i suspect x-flow) and what was the one i was using before (basically 18mm higher oil levels than everyone elses!!)


Thanks all for your help. Huge number ofposts for such a simple root cause. Just goes to show you shouldnt take anything for granted.

quote:

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Originally posted by DarrenW

The puzzler now is what stick have i got (i suspect x-flow) and what was the one i was using before (basically 18mm higher oil levels than everyone elses!!)

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Ok, sanity check time as im about to take the leap of faith.

i went to Andy's last night and took some measurements. His engine is virtually identical spec to mine but he has big wing shortened sump as opposed to mine being extended forward. I think the toatal capacities are similar. Both sumps are 145mm deep.

I took his oil plug out (exhaust side, low down - the one i used as a drain before). Using a cable tie as a dipstick with a marker around the top, i measured that the distance from the top of plug hole to top of oil was 140mm.
I also know his dipstick is exactly the same as Jacko's (437mm upper / 460mm lower). The 140mm point corresponds with half way between upper and lower level mark on dipstick (ie 448mm). He also reports that at 3/4 up (442mm) he starts to get breathing problems but mainting mid point and all is well.

I have just drained my oil. Not changed filter (only done about 1000 miles ago). Using empty oil can i placed 4.5 litres in it. I had to put 4 litres in to get my level the same. Does this sound right.

Can i now safely assume i can mark this point on my dipstick and call it the midpoint then re-calbrate (ie remark) the upper and lower points (which are 21.5mm above and below mid)????



The only downer now is that my old dipstick that i used last year (420mm upper / 445mm lower) wont go right into tube - its hitting sump baffle and is 10mm proud of the upper end of the tube. Didnt do this on old engine but i suspect the new engines tube is actually only 290mm long rather than the norm 300mm. ive no idea what engine my old stick is off but looks like ill have to remark it anyway.


Ill measure how much oil im left with in a mo so i can determine how much i have had in before. - edit to add - ooops - i had 6.8l of oil in!! (exc oil filter - ie i drained 6.8 litres out of the sump!!)

[Edited on 4/10/07 by DarrenW]

how much oil does the filter hold? 1/2 litre?

you need to account for that I think

6.8litres! holy feck

I didnt replace the filter so adding 4l should be more or less what ive added to the sump.

Its too early to draw a conclusion but just done the same short run (albeit not quite as hard whilst i gain confidence back) that chucked 1/3 to 1/2 litre out the other day and nothing in the catch tank. Under hard braking i observed the pressure drop to between 25 and 30 psi but didnt put the warning up on the dash.


I know no-one can confirm if 4l is right for me cos it depends on the sump but if i dont get any oil chucked out and the level is maintained ill probs call this my new mid point.
From what ive researched the manuals say 6.5 pints / 3.75 litres is correct amount for an oil change in a std engine so i cant be too far away. After modding the sump im sure i worked it out that the capacity was more or less the same as std.



Just goes to show you shoulnt take anything for granted when using 2nd hand donor bits, and how something so simple and taken for granted can give so much trouble.

quote:

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Originally posted by 2b_pablo
6.8 litres! holy feck

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I have just read how much oil you had in the sump 6.8LTR no wonder there is a oil shortage in the world
Graham