MegaSquirt and MegaJoltLightJunior

Eveyone aware of this DIY Fueling and ignition combo? Check this out!

The Grippo and Bowling Homepage -http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

4AGTE Turbo on the cheap - http://www.4agte.com

and also

Excellent resource for EDIS ignition (ditch the distributor!) - http://picasso.org/mjlj/index.jsp

This is GOOD STUFF!

Graber

looks good to me

Very interesting

Chris

im thinking of making my self some throtle bodys for my xflow now iv seen this.

or have a go anyway eney one got eney tips.

somthing like this
[url=http://www.jenvey.co.uk/~Bodies1.htm]http:
im sure a man like me can make something like this from what i can make out it's a tube with a throttle valve and a injector behind it?

must be easy

Hey Steve, that's great news...I'd been aware of Megasquirt for a while......they said ignition would follow later.....looks like it has...

Great stuff indeed...

ok im geting very interested iv just spent the last 24 hours thinking of megasquirt (very sad i know) and looked at all th info i can get hold of on it and it is looking good in fact it is looking very good i think with a bit of thort i could get more power out of this system then twin 40s

just need to get it working and i may have some twin 40s for sale

i am runing a 1700 xflow stage2 head and a 234 kent cam is there eney one whos thinking the same as me?

I was thinking of somthing like this should'nt be to hard to nock somthing up


xflow-tbs

Ill measure my twin 40s up and copy the bores and throttle valves then put a injector behined it.
for the trottle position i will remove a throttle sensor off another car.
sounds good to me i will have more power,more driveability and even beter mpg

ok the only thing that may cost is a cheep lap top dose not have to be top of the range just has to run win95 but the quicker the better any suggestions?

CCC did an article about DIY injection a few years back. They use old 40DCOE's as the throttle bodies. The ECU they used was Emerald (because the guy writing the article is a partner in the business)

Don't throw those 40's away Rell

If you could come up with a way of simply fabricating the whole lot for £No, you'd generate a lot of interest.

BTW, there's a chapter in Ron Fournier's "Sheet Metal Handbook" where he makes an inlet manifold for some V6 or other from sheet.

Cheers,

Neil.

im prity good with my hands and have a lathe in my garage to make the bodies.
i was thinking of useing stainless tube with bits welded on then machined.

i think the shaft for the trottle valve will be the hardest thing to get right because im sure i read some where that they have to be just off center this is why im copying the twin 40s valves. Is this right or not?

just had a thort i could use the valves off the twin 40s

i can get everything else in need from a scrap yard

trottle position senser
lamder senser (fits in the exshort to momitor the oxigen content)
air temp sencer
water temp senser
and injectors

i just need to know which one are compatible with the megasquirt system
so hopefully i can do it for very little money

Interesting...

I too have a lathe in my garage (1963 Colchester Bantam), although I'm not particularly good with it. If you come up with some designs, I'd love to see them. Who knows, I could even have a go at making some myself.

Best of luck,

Neil.

looking at your piture it looks that your useing a wankel engine and i have been looking at the posts on the yahoo forum and there is some one on there useing one on his wankel engine
megasquirt can also deel with turbo systems.
what engine are you useing not a 20B i hope you can get over 900bhp out of one of those
if your useing a 12a engine you can still get 200bhp with a good power curve
and for the 13B about 400bhp with a good power curve but you can get 600bhp and the best thing about the wankel engine is it ways about 1/3 of the wight of a piston engine(even if the engine has a alli block)

GOD I MISS MY RX7

I'm v interested in this as well, and I'm a wankeler...

I believe Glenn is building a 13b turbo using two megasquirts. Not sure how he's getting on.

I was thinking of just taking the easy option and going with the standard injection to just get the thing on the road but if we can collaborate on this and get something going. There's a guy called bill on http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com who's got a 13b westie, I know he's looking into using bike throttle bodies and megasquirt.

Why cant you fit a single or twin throttle body to a downtraught weber type manifold.

I've seen this on a site related to the Megasquirt stuff.

What throttle bodies would work for that .

Could be a single 40mm or something..

Any ideas.....

My engine has already got a water temp sensor ,air temp sensor,and a lambda sensor.

Excellent post ! Thanks for the sites.

I've been looking to do something like that for years but have been too busy.

The whole thing looks very simply organised and a doddle for anyone with electronics knowledge to build.

Looks like I'll be sending off for partial kit soon.

Twin 40's have been used as throttle bodies before. They don't have to be in good condition either, you just need to fabricate a manifold.

Have just looked at number of 'posters' a month on the Yahoo site. Wow, close to 2000 a month average, that's some interest!

Rob Lane

[Edited on 20/10/03 by Rob Lane]

dave i think you mean something like this


plenum
the only thing with doing it like this is that it dose restict the flow a bit but it would be easyer to make
but as said by by GO you can get bike thottle bodies that work very nicely iv been told GSXR600 bodies go on a xflow engine with a home made manifold with good results.

I meant bolting a throttle body vertically on the standard manifold , but with the injector in the throttle body not individually in each inlet tract.

Could that not work like a carb ?

But with realtime adjustments going on?

Excuse my simplistic ideas but I'm not very up to speed on Injection.

Can you tell me why what I propose would not work?

yep sorry mate it would work
you will need a good tig set to weld a lug on to manifold for the injetors.To weld alli properly you need a tig set with ac on it. if you've got one fine but if not go to a fab shop and thay will do it for you (just slip the man a tener)

If you fitted a single bike throttle body vertically would it not have the injector built in the body?

I didn't want to do anything technical like putting injectors in each inlet tract.

Or are the injectors always separate from the throttle body?

there ar two things to consider

1)you could not use the standed injector you would need a masive single injector and this may not fit in the bike throttle bodie

2)it would be a lot less efficient probably a little more than a carb and have very little power gain

all in all i do not think it would be worth it?

ok done a drawing on autocad to get the jist of things it is only a guide line and i know the bore is only 34mm but it is the only stainless pipe i can get hold of at the min
but on my stage 2 head the bore in the head is only 31mm so it may not be to bad

any Suggestions are welcome and i know it will be very difficult to line all the bushs up some coments on this would be nice

rell, can you export that as a jpg or something and post it?

Cheers.

I dont know how to
but if you what a copy of auto cad you can download it from kazaa.

www.kazaa.com

just put in autocad 2000 or 2002
and download it make sure it has the crack on it or the code

dam the link did not work
ill try again.

http://www.kazaa.com/us/index.htm

try this
Rescued attachment trottle.jpg

GOOD MAN
how did you do it

screen grabber and psp

Thanks lads.

It does look remarkably simple. Makes you wonder why they're so damned expensive to buy!!

rell, couldn't quite work out what you're doing with the injector boss though? And why the 70deg angle?

The only tricky bit, as rell says, seems to be attaching the butterflies so as to prevent air leaks.

ok bit exsta on the drawing
still could not get it no jpg
ok 70 deg is because of the dizy on the xflow. the injector boss i have put on the drawing is just some 20mm bar stock but when i deside on which injector to use i will machine it to sute.

jpeg-ed
Rescued attachment trottle.jpg

thanks againe

ok just doing abit more on the drawing and come up with a fuw quiers.

ok do the shafts need to be sealed where the bushes are?

to balance the 4 throttles i was thinking of putting a small neddle valves to let a small amount of air in after the throttle valve is this necessary?

any other point that you can see just tell me

ok 1 gold star the the man who spots the mistake

[Edited on 21/10/03 by rell]

Right, I've read this entire thread, and it doesn't make sense to me.

Can someone explain in laymens terms what your all going on about?

Thanks

ok what we are all on about (ok what im on about) is making my own throttle bodies these work like twin webers but better.
you will get more power with better power curve (run smoother) and you will get better mpg.
ok this is how it works you have throttle valves same as your twin webers but there are injectors behind them that supply the fule instead of the jets in the carbs. injectors are better and more accurate at delivering the fule.

to controle the injectors im going to use kit that you can make your self called magasquirt.

how this works is you have a few sensors on the engine.

1)thottle position sensor

2)air temp sensor

3)water temp sensor

4)lamder sensor this is a sensor in the exhaust that tells the mega squirt wether it is rich or lean

5)R.P.M. lead that gose to the coil counts the number of sparks

there are uthers but i will not be useing them because thay are not needed.
now all these sensors send a signle back to the mega squirt unit whick in turn sends a signle out to the injectors. this signle verys depending on what the sensor signles are.

the drawings are the plans for my throttle bodies thay are not finnished yet.

ok hope that cleared things up a bit. If not just ask and i will try to exsplain.

Graham, things have moved very slightly off original post, bear with it.

The original post had links to a website that described and supplied, in detail, a DIY fully working Fuel only ECU (Engine fuel injection management) known as a MegaSquirt.

I looked at as many of the sites as I could last night and I'm now looking at the MegaSquirtnSpark as a complete project.

This combines the fuel only MegaSquirt with an ignition module, making it a fully programmable by user, Engine Management system. This uses many cheaply available sensors and an ignition module that is relatively easy to source in UK. (Ford Sierra CVH1800, Escorts between 96-99 etc)

The post then went on to discussion regarding injection throttle bodies. (The best bit of the system). Throttle Bodies (TB) are individual tubes per cylinder taking place of a carb or single inlet. Each with its own butterfly to control air intake, joined obviosly by the spindle. Fuel Injectors are fitted above each tube so that precise air/fuel mixtures can be set up by the ECU.
With a fully programmable ECU system it's possible to set the engine up at any revs and any load, although this takes time and possibly a rolling road session.

With all of the above it's possible to get an engine to maximum power and efficiency along with smooth running.

To be honest I have a very nice smooth running engine fitted now, however by cutting the inlet manifold to lower it, the power has moved up the rev range. With the standard factory ECU it's not possible to retune it, so I'm interested in the above.

Many of the builders using different engines come across the problem that the factory systems don't lend themselves to fit in a 7 without much modding.

If you need any further info i'll happily post it. It's not a difficult subject once you have the basics.

Rob Lane

[Edited on 22/10/03 by Rob Lane]

started a new topic just on the thottle bodies.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=8224&page=1#pi d62882

Hi Graham, Rob, others, I'll just add my .0002 American cents here...

The Megasquirt is a great product by itself as it provides an inexpensive, fully programmable fueling solution for the DIY hobbyist. This type of product has always been out of reach of the average builder because of the cost. It's relatively easy for the DIY type of person that can solder a board up to put one together. However, MegaSquirt by itself isn't a complete engine management package because it lacks ignition timing. My link to the Picasso website details the missing piece--- An inexpensive and completely dependable DIY ignition that piggybacks right into the MegaSquirt board! Don't miss this page: http://picasso.org/mjlj/index.jsp

Using a toothed wheel on the crank pulley to manage timing allows you to ditch the pesky distributor forever. Run coilpacks directly to the plugs.

Now you can hook a laptop up to a port on the side of the unit and adjust everything "on-the-fly" while you are driving. Best left to a passenger! You can even install a 'glass cockpit' using an LCD to view all engine functions...

For the average driver of the average car, this type of adjustability is waay over the top, but if you love to tinker with stuff, love to do everything your own way, want to extract that extra gram of potential from your engine, this is the way to go.

I my case -4AGE-, I want to replace the bulky intake using a quad of bike carbs for the throttle bodies, keep the injectors, run MegaSquirt and MegaJoltLiteJunior(by Picasso) and then I will be able to bolt on a turbo system when I want to increase the horsepower.

Graber

Right, I'm cathching up now. I'm actually an electronic engineer, but know nothing about engines!!!

Simle question, could one of these units be used as a distributorless ecu system for a set of carbs?

Cheers

Northy, yes, absolutely. The MJLJ (picasso) can be used as a standalone ignition controller. Perfect for converting FI over to carbies!

It's simple and neat...

I'm still looking for downsides.... Anyone?

Graber

Any chance of an idiots guide for that one

I've read it mentions a MAP sensor, on carbs!

Cheers

So which UK cars can I find a Ford EDIS ignition module on. All the stuff refers to American vehicles ?

quote:

---

Originally posted by givemethebighammer
So which UK cars can I find a Ford EDIS ignition module on. All the stuff refers to American vehicles ?

---

Found this - UK Fords with module fitted
Rescued attachment EDIS cars in the UK.jpg

The list looks about right BUT be aware that some year crossover models
were fitted with the DIS module not the EDIS module. Look similar.

I've looked into ordering the Megasquirt partial kit and it works out at 30 pounds.
I have most of the other bits needed in my electronic junk box.

Like you Graber I'm running a 4AGE but i wanted a programmable
system to get the best from it.

Graham, for a carb setup you need the ignition system MegaJolt Lite etc.
NOT the Megasquirt which is really for fuel only.

A MAP sensor is for fuelling or intake feedback. MAP=Manifold Absolute Pressure
It's a small unit that converts from vacuum/pressure to an electrical signal.
It does this by the use of a small diaphragm inside.

Open the throttle and the inlet manifold creates a change in
vacuum/pressure which the MAP sensor converts.
Then this is fed to Fuel ECU to change the fuelling rate at the injectors.
The injectors open and close for each cylinder for a preset time governed by ECU,
when more fuel is required the injectors stay open longer.
With ignition it would give an indication of engine loading.

[Edited on 23/10/03 by Rob Lane]

[Edited on 23/10/03 by Rob Lane]
Edited to add carriage returns to

bring it all back from a 2 ft wide screen.


[Edited on 23/10/03 by Rob Lane]

Rob, Excellent post.

So... How do you run a MAP sensor to quad throttle bodies? ie; my converted carbie throttles.

Steve

Just what I was going to ask

Cheers

With carbs if you just drill one inlet tract you will get pulsing
of the MAP sensor and attendant erratic signal.

The answer is to drill all inlet tracts, fit mini insert
adaptors and join the flexy pipe with T pieces. This produces a smoother signal although not perfect.
Bit like doing 4 washer jets!

I used to have a pic of an install in my files.
I'll see if I can find it.

Looked at he megasquirt unit a while ago but decided i wanted to have somethin that would control ignition as well.

MJLJ looks really interesting!

I understand about hw most these systems work but I'm not very good with the eectronics side of it. So i have some questions:

1) Do i have to transfer the code for MJLJ to a chip using an eprom burner?

2) Is there a ready set ou PCB available yet?

3) If not how hard is it to make my own and is there any body out there that could burn the cde onto my chip?

Thanks,

Doug.

I dont think you need a eprom burner you buy the chip with everything you need on it

the programable chip is not a eprom that is my understanding but i am not electronics expert
im just learning all about it my self but from what i can make out it is easy to build

but the tricky part is geting the thing to work with all the sensors and injectors, then the setup of the engine can be tricky.

but im sure with a bit of thort and Patience i think anyone can pull it off

Here's the tricky part.

At the moment there is a small amount of useful info regarding the ignition MJlJ. As well as source code.

There is currently no group buy or ready made PCB.

There is a PCB design which I've printed off and
it's a simple one sided PCB, so very easy to make.

HOWEVER, there is no chip ready progged available, yet.
You will need a 68HC908GP33 programmer to prog in the code!

This is where things get tricky as the Willette programmer is now
on hold,
with no support available.

The alternative is the Motorloa one BUT I bet that costs a bit as it's a full developement environment.

The Willette programmer has a catch 22 ,
in that the progged chip for that is not available.

I'm still working my way through the large amount of info available on these systems. Lots of it still experimental.

It doesn't phase me but it's annoying when the trail runs cold.

I'll have a look and see what we've got at work. But it is possible to get programmers that program lots of different chips.

Cheers

Regarding the ignition - MJLJ (by Picasso) - I had a short email conversation with him regarding the MegaJoltLiteJunior and he is apparently willing and able to help people out. He has a definite interest in Locost related builds, especially mid-engine! hehe

Drop him an email and see what you can find out! He has one running on a 4AGE already....

I have decided to build the MegaSquirt and the MJLJ so that I can run the little turbo setup that I just bought . Just biding my time now...

Graber

I didn't email him as I took for granted the blurb on the website that stated that
they would be making stuff available later.
I didn't want to disturb him.

The Willette programmer page also states that they have stopped the group buys for the time being and will resume later.
This is all very frustrating when you have all the details but unable to continue.

Bear in mind that in the UK some of the bits are unobtainable at a reasonable cost off the shelf.
This makes ordering from States the only way to go.

I've had mixed success this way. Some bits I've ordered have arrived within a few days, others took weeks to arrive. I'm talking in general here, not specifically about the MegaS stuff.

Right, I did some more exploring.

I was wrong when I stated that the programmer chips were not available. It doesn't use one !!

In my hasty examination of the schematic i saw the processor in circuit and assumed it was a progged chip for the programmer.

I now have the programmer PCB layout, it's another single sided, easy to make board.

Just to recap, at the moment there is no programmed chip available for the MJolt lite BUT the code is there. So prog a chip and it's away, hence my searching.

Once I've built this programmer I will be able to program many chips should anyone in UK require one and it doesn't step on anyones toes.

Next job is PCB making. For just the two I'll forego the photo etching and do manual boards.

Rob,

I hope that you can keep a detailed web diary of your progress (and the process of finding parts, building boards...) with lots of pictures and explanation for those of us less "grey matter endowed" individuals!

I'll try to keep things posted as I progress.

I've discovered that the PCB layout for the Megaprog is mirror image for photo etching.
Unfortunately the layout is in the pdf doc and when you extract it as an image, the resolution is so low that the tracks merge.

I may email the author and ask for a direct copy from which to print.

I've sourced all bar one component in the UK and that's the MAP sensor. It's available from Stateside for 19 dollars, if I don't find a supplier in UK then I'll send for a couple.

So. I have PCB layout for MegaJ lite, PCB layout for programmer, order placed for a partial Megasquirt kit, sourced rest of components from Farnell in UK and a local shop.

If anyones interested in UK then I'll post Farnells order codes and buying list for MJ lite.

Rob Lane

Go on the Rob

Rob, with your new found knowledge, would you know if I could do away with the MAP sensor for a carb system? Would I be able to use a throttle position sensor instead as the Alpha kit does?

Where are you documenting all this? A web site?

Cheers

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rob Lane
I've sourced all bar one component in the UK and that's the MAP sensor.
Rob Lane

---

I've sourced a supply of MAP sensors in UK,
but the cost 28 pounds each!!!!!

Yes, the Megasquirt (MS) calls for a specific sensor as does the MegaJolt Lite (MJL).

It's a Motorola MPX4250 which according to datasheet is .2v to 4.9v output for 2.9psi to 33psi.

I could wire in the Toyota MAP sensor I have at the moment but I haven't looked up its characteristics. It would be too much effort to re-write the value change into the software.

I'm doing all this because most of the hard work has been done by Bowling and Grippo, with all thanks given to them for their generosity.

I originally started a project like this a couple of years ago but the effort put into it is very high. I also was using a PIC controller but it's not capable of keeping up with ignition speed event requirements.

There is a TP mentioned but I've yet to find the details.

Something like this is a long way off, but I keep thinking of something like this and associated throttle bodies for the Beemer....

I know I'm getting ahead of myself in relation to where my project is at, but what the hell...

"Once I've built this programmer I will be able to program many chips should anyone in UK require one and it doesn't step on anyones toes.

Next job is PCB making. For just the two I'll forego the photo etching and do manual boards."

How many boards do you need to make to make photo etching economicable?

I for one will put my name down for a programmed chip and PCB if you can supply?

Thanks,

Doug.

Photo etching needs about 20 boards to be useful.

I don't want to get snowed under but i should be able to do one other board manually. They are some way off yet as i don't have enough etch resist transfers left!

Chip is a bit harder to source. Farnells are on 20 week forward order on them but there are other suppliers when I get round to them.

I obtained all the other components for my build today, some from Bardwells at Sheffield and others from Farnells in Leeds.

It is possible to get everything from Farnells, I have some of the important order codes noted if interested.

Rob, I was just about to post to see how you've been getting on

I'll email you.

Cheers

Rob,

Have you tried Press-n-Peel for PCB masking. You print the tracks on a special film on a laser printer / photo copier then iron onto the copper clad board which transfers the print onto the board. I've used it sucessfully for a couple of 8051 based projects, and a programmer.

See:
Press-n-Peel

Good luck with the project, sounds like you will end up with the kit list for this side of the pond.

Cheers,

Colin

Thanks, that looks excellent for a few boards.

Trouble is with the projects, that the PCB layouts provided on the sites are on the poor side for quality. That's why i was doing a manual board. I think they are that way to encourage you to buy a pre-made board.

I've ordered one of the starter kits as it's such good value. I've spent about 80 pounds so far and have everything accounted for bar the EDIS system from a Frod.

Also, for the programmer I was modifying the tracks to provide a cable header output, as I have a 40 pin ZIF socket for my PIC programmer that plugs in to a mini header. Saves 12 pounds or so on another socket!

Anyone read the Mega Manual and looked at the animated MegaTune display? It looks really good, with on the fly reprogramming of the fuelling. I believe there's also one called MegaTune-SS for the ignition advance.

I have seen a guy at one of the competition road going sprints loading a new map for his engine that produced about 15bhp more BUT only for a very short duration else engine damage! He reloaded the road map to drive home.

The engine was a Vauxhall XE twin cam. I would assume he was loading a very large ignition advance to suit his cams.

Secretive lot, they won't divulge much.

Rob,

Don't let me send you off track

For boards I've been using the demo version of PCB Elegance. It takes a bit of getting used to as with most but is useful for tweaks. Requires the design to start with the schematic, so may not help much with this project.

Download - PCB Elegance

Cheers,

Colin

I've now managed to clean up the MJLJ pcb layout. It originally had component overlays and was multi-coloured.

Hopefully it's below this.
Rescued attachment mjlj_brd pcbtrack.png

Nicely done. I will certainly use that! I took the liberty of creating another image that might be helpful. The parts layout for the top of the board. Please note that this image is mirrored from Rob's image. In fact Rob's image probably needs to be mirrored before printing if you are going to use it with iron on transfers. (I think that's right.


MJLJ PCB Parts Layout

You all are aware that this Ignition board can be run independently of Mega Squirt Fuel Computer. This means that you can use MJLJ(EDIS) standalone to control your ignition sans distributor, with carbies.

Later,

Graber

PS - Here's the circuit side mirrored.

MJLJ PCB Circuit Lines -Mirrored

These images are in my locostbuilders album.

[Edited on 10/31/03 by sgraber]

Rob,

A very good friend of mine travels back and forth from the States on a regular basis, usually with a load of electronic components in his luggage - he's designing & building an interface for a body scanner which can be run from a PC instead of a dedicated system costing hundreds of thousands of pounds. He has brought ICs back for me which are readily available and cheaper in the US, so if there's anything you require, let me know. He also has PCBs made in small numbers while prototyping the latest version of his controller card, and could easily get a small run of MegaJoltLiteJr boards made.

Needless to say, a Megasquirt and MegaJolt are on my plan for next year along with my no. 2 engine re-built with cams, higher-compression pistons, headworks etc. (need to get the car running in v1.0 mode first).

Cheers,

Eddy

Eddy,

I'll be in touch by email.


Meanwhile, one handmade Willette Programmer board etched ready for drilling.

Reason for this board is to program the KX8 processor chip for the MJLJ and program a GP32 chip for MSnEDIS.
As I understand it at the moment, MSnEDIS only requires two small component changes to workan EDIS direct. The changes to MegaSquirt have been achieved in software to drive the EDIS module. This will save me making a MJLJ seperately.

[Edited on 2/11/03 by Rob Lane]

[Edited on 2/11/03 by Rob Lane]
Rescued attachment WillettePCB.jpg

Chris,
I think you need to check the host computer clock.



[Edited on 2/11/03 by Spyderman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rob Lane
As I understand it at the moment, MSnEDIS only requires two small component changes to workan EDIS direct. The changes to MegaSquirt have been achieved in software to drive the EDIS module. This will save me making a MJLJ seperately.

---

It's not just the 4AGE of course. It would suit the Zetec as well.

If you have an early Zetec it should have come with an EDIS module, so a MegaSquirtnEDIS is ideal to tune it. Especially if the manifold has been shortened.

I've posted on both MS lists the Bill of Materials with Farnell UK order codes in text format. I will add to files on here if I can.
They will supply anyone and offer 24 hour order line with orders before 7pm on next day delivery.

Order line tel number 0870 1200 200
www.farnell.com/uk

I have their 6 catalogue set for ordering. Nearly broke postmans back!!

Hmm, can't find a files area, only photos.

Lets see if it attaches OK.

I guess I'll keep this thread alive with some more info.

You can buy a pre-made MSquirt and other pre-made boards from here: He will ship overseas http://home.earthlink.net/~jcgebhart/preasmms.txt

This page -http://home.earthlink.net/~jcgebhart/msindex.html- is possibly the clearest MegaSquirt information compilation I have found. It's a keeper, so I figured I would post it here for posterity!

Later,

Graber

This is the full Mega Manual index site. I've printed it all out and made it into a binder.

It's not something I would recommend unless your printers up to it. It's just over an inch (25mm) thick!

http://members.shaw.ca/megasquirt/manual/mtabcon.htm

Well it's been an eventful day, what with my embarrasing moment with my IR port. (see:Anything Else) and the discovery that the Willette programmer requires a very odd crystal oscillator. 19.6608mhz !!

I cannot source one this side of the pond.

So, I've ordered a MegaProgrammer with KX8 adapter. This will allow me to prog chips for the MJLJ and the MSnEDIS.

Later I should be able to supply anyone who wants a programmed chip for MJLJ.

There's also a faint possibilty that someone else is doing a small run of MJLJ boards over here.

If I have more news I will post.

I can't take this off forum to my website as I have no feedback facilities so apologies if this is boring everyone.

You're not boring me Rob!

How much was the programmer, and where do you order/get that from!

More things to learn about!

I've ordered a MS partial kit, and a stimulator. Going to the scrappy on Saturday morning hunting for an EDIS 4 and all associated bits.

Glad it's not boring.

I ordered the unit from Patrick Carlier the designer. It's the last one left.

With it I will be able to prog GP32 chips for the MSnEDIS and KX8 chips for the MJLJ. Later, once I have them sourced I can do them for anyone this side of pond.

There's slight confusion also, as to whether the Willette will prog the GP32 as used in latest versions, hence my change of heart.

I can't build up a MegaProg as the PCB picture has insufficient resolution and some of the tracks are blended together.

MegasquirtNEDIS has now had version 3005 released but they are claiming an upper rev limit of 7800 rpm.

As my 4AGE is capable of 8500 I will have to check this when built. According to one guy he can reach 9500 rpm, so it's interesting.

Edited figure to correct 7800 !

[Edited on 11/11/03 by Rob Lane]

Rob, Since the MSnEDIS uses the fast idle circuit to interface with the EDIS box, what are your plans for fast idle? Do you have a bosch air valve?

Any pictures of your progress?

I find your reports very interesting. Especially since you are working with a 4AGE. I'd like to have access to in-depth details regarding your project for when I get started with mine.

Graber

[Edited on 11/8/03 by sgraber]

Not much progress to report. I've obtained all components required for MS and I'm waiting for the partial kit to arrive from USA.
That contains PCB and progged chip, which I'll put to one side as I intend to prog a blank with MSnEDIS.

The Megaprogrammer has been posted to me and I wait arrival.

Meanwhile I've found a link I mislaid. This link has all tech info on ECU functions, basic engine management etc etc. Although it's an in depth of the Toyota systems it's worth a look at for a basic understanding of how it all works.

http://www.autoshop101.com/techarticles/technicalarticles.html

Rob Lane

Further to the posting on home made throttle bodies I have converted a pair of Weber 40s attached to a modified Ginnetta manifold ( a few more pictures in the archive)
Schrodinger
Rescued attachment Dressed Manifold.jpg

i gave up on making my own because i got a set of GSXR600 throttle bodies for £40 all iv got to do is make a manifold and get it to work on mega squirt.

i may have to put bigger injectors in thow

I'm still holding off on individual bodies for the moment.
I may yet have a chance at a set for mine from a 4AGZE engine in New Zealand.

Meanwhile, the Megaprogrammer has arrived from Patrick Carlier so I should be able to prog a couple of GP32 chips with MSnEDIS software.
Current price for a GP32 works out about £10 to £12.

Picture below
Rescued attachment Megaprogbuilt.jpg

And I think I've managed to get all the Ford bits for the huge sum off £20

What do you think Dave? Are they right?
Rescued attachment All the Ford bits.jpg

Well after much trial and tribulation I've managed to program 2 chips with MSnEDIS V3005.

I now firmly believe my laptop does not have a fully functioning serial port!

After no success with the programmer connected to my laptop I decided to use the office PC. It was when I copied the files onto a CD and tried the CD in the machine that I discovered that Win98 had lost the drive! Not only that it steadfastly refused to recognise it after every effort to reload drivers.

At first I thought I had a Catch 22. How to reload Win98 when CD wouldn't run? Then I remembered the floppy disk with Win 98 startup in the desk drawer.
Changing BIOS to boot from floppy I was finally able to get Win 98 re-installed.

Once done, I connected the programmer cable and started the software. It was running and ready to program in less than half a second.

Loaded the file and told it to prog the chip, it took about 3 seconds and it was complete. I put in a second chip and progged that in the same time.

Much relief after all the trials, especially for the office machine as we backup to the CD writer drive every couple of weeks or so.

Still don't know how it lost the drive though. The machine worked perfect but the drive did not appear in any of the dialogues.

Same goes for laptop, although I've suspected this for some time after all my troubles trying to get my mobile phone to connect via port, finally giving up and using Infra Red.

If anyone wants a MS or MSnEDIS chip programming, then it's free except for postage cost or send me some stamps.

Send me a chip and I'll prog it.
Farnells charge 7-90 + VAT for a blank chip.

Rob Lane

Long time since an update but little has happened till last week.

After a slight mixup the PCB's and other couple of bits arrived from the States. They are superb quality and maybe worth the extra wait.

I've started fitting the components and sourced some of the harder to find bits.

I'll put an update on later when built up prior to tests.

Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to all.

Rob Lane

Any updates Rob?

Yeah, Inquiring minds want to know!

The MJLJ PCB's are available now. I was going to make one, but its not worth it!

Planning on ordering a couple soon.

Sorry, long time no post!

I've suffered various personal problems and I've done nothing to either car or MSnEDIS.
I did finish it and had it all working OK but I'm afraid it was I who burnt out!!

I'm currently fitting a new engine and T50 box into the car as the 2nd engine blew on start up after winter layoff.
I've still to strip it down to check but I think a 'little end' has gone along with wear to 'big ends'.
The synthetic oil came out like water and there was grey bearing sludge in the sump pan from the worn white metal.
I'm going to use normal oil in new engine.

Engine is from Fensport with 12 months warranty, it's a low miles import. T50 as outright purchase from Classic Conversions with 12 months warranty. Can't recommend them highly enough.

Hopefully they will all stay together!!!!

Rob Lane
www.robs7.com

[Edited on 16/6/04 by Rob Lane]

Ahhh. Sorry to hear about your situation Rob, but glad that you are back with us on the forum and building cars again.

That's terrible about the engine. As I recall, you don't have good luck with them engines...

I managed to build a MegaJoltLight Junior and I have all the EDIS parts too, but for now everything is sitting in a box as I am too busy building the body. I still plan on doing a complete conversion to Squirt and MJLJ with a low boost turbo on top of my 4AGE.

Hi Steve,

I take some of the blame for the engine. I didn't turn it over all winter and with the water like synthetic oil, it all must have drained off to sump.
When I started it there was a delay before the pump primed and that's when the damage most likely occured.

I wasn't too sure of engine history (who is unless they build it themselves).
It was claimed as a rebuilt JAP engineering engine. It even had the stickers.

Fascinating visiting Fensport Toyota. They do all the custom shows and specialise in purely Toyota. Easy to talk to and very very knowledgable. Warehouse full of bits and engines.

Same goes for Classic Conversions. A little known company who supply most of the major kit car makers with their RWD gearboxes, diffs, uprights, calipers etc. I saw some well known names on current weeks 'to do' list. One of the industries best kept secrets!

www.classicconversions.co.uk

I was able to buy a rebuilt and 12 month warrated T50 as an outright sale. He also had the other heavier duty Celica and Supra boxes.
He had some interesting things to say on gearboxes.
A T50 is good for 250bhp all day long.
A Ford Type 9 is good for 150bhp all day long and occasional 200bhp.
A 4 speed Escort box good for 100bhp all day long but NOT 125bhp.
Ford T5? good for 350bhp. As fitted to Mustangs.
Can't remember designations but maybe K or T 85? from Supra good for 350-400bhp when he's finished with them.

Rob Lane

Rob,
bad luck!
why are you fitting a new box with the new engine? which 4age are you using? how many horses? rude to ask the prices?

Tim

No problem. The engine cost from Fensport is £450 + VAT. I didn't pay that though ;-)
There are no ancillaries but that's not a problem for me.

I always had two gearboxes, one in car and one for standby.
The box in car ran fine but had a bearing growl on overrun. So I thought I would try the standby box with the engine. Big mistake. It howled like a banshee and rumbled all it's bearings.
So faced with engine out again I decided to buy a new one, ready to fit onto new engine. Cost £350. ;-)

I've since fitted it all up together and it ran a dream. Very quiet, good engine, fast car. Took it out for an 8 mile ride and was returning when I pulled out to pass a car, half way alongside all hell let loose. It sounded like the engine and box had both collapsed, it was so noisy.
The noise went up and down with revs and had me puzzled, I drove home gently and started thinking about it.
Came to conclusions, either bearing on input shaft gone, spigot bearing collapsed, clutch thrust bearing collapsed or flywheel bolts loose.

Since then I've taken engine off box in car by just moving it forward whilst suspended on crane.
Immediately found problem as I could rotate flywheel back and forth about 3mm.

I dismantled it all and found that I had used the original RWD flywheel bolts which were only held by 3 threads with no shank on bolt. Two bolts were out by one thread and rest were done up but not tight.
New bolts that came with engine were 15mm longer and had a shank which went through flywheel to locate it properly.
Needless to say I fitted them with Loctite and torqued them up. Dean C came round and held engine whilst I heaved on them to correct torque 101 lbs ft. So high I was nearly lifting engine off hoist hook!
It then took over an hour to get the engine to go back on box, no amount of pushing lifting aligning would do it. We had a cup of tea to think about it, when I finished the tea I leant on engine to look down bellhousing gap and the bugger just slid together!!

It's now running well and I've done about 25 miles in it.

Last night I redid the cooling pipes and added a second pipe after I discovered that I had joined two outlets together. The car now has a steady temp and doesn't fluctuate like before.

Time will tell if it's all Ok but that's everything changed at front end now.

Bhp is standard engine at 129bhp for a phase 3, 4AGE. It's certainly fast accelerating even if top speeds around 115mph on a normal road, long road should see 120-125mph.
With the first engine I reached just over 95mph at end of short finish straight at Curborough track. This was comparable with a 2 litre car.

Rob

[Edited on 29/6/04 by Rob Lane]

Just to let anyone who is interested know I am about to start building my MJLJ, and will be fitting it to the engine once the weather has turned shite

Hey Graham,

I just finished building an MJLJ myself. I haven't mounted it in a case yet, that's the last item I need. But I have sourced all the Ford Edis components.

It's going to be pretty neat not having a distributor to futz with anymore and the ignition timing control will be a breeze to adjust when I add the turbo to my 4AGE.

Let us know how you get along with it.

I have been building a Megajolt system for a few weeks now, got the car running over last weekend and spent some time this week setting it all up.

It has made a tremendous difference to the car on light and medium throttle opening due to the fact that I was using a non vacuum distributor (wildish cam and twin 40’s)

It’s been easy to install, I have put a couple of pages of the installation on my web site if anyone is interested. The address is



http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/jtccc

wel , ive just installed MS on a 480 turbo for a customer , got a few issues , since im keeping the ezk ignition .

If it were me , i would use the MSnS , and go from a crank trigger , its all in one box then

Buzzer,

Interesting site. I'll be Megasquirting my Pinto in the not too distant future. That will be the sacrificial lamb before I move to a more exciting engine!

James

quote:

---

Originally posted by Volvorsport
wel , ive just installed MS on a 480 turbo for a customer , got a few issues , since im keeping the ezk ignition .

If it were me , i would use the MSnS , and go from a crank trigger , its all in one box then

---

Has anyone looked at the "Megasquirtnspark-extra"?

I fancy trying to use this for Ignition only due to some of the fancy features its got:

rev limiters
launch control
nitrous control
etc...

Full details here:

http://www.jsm-net.demon.co.uk

Cheers

There was someone on the MS forum recently who mentioned something along the lines of: "All credit to those geniuses who worked out how to get squirt and sparks from the same original hardware".

Does that sound familiar to anyone and know what they're refering to? I've forgotten what they were on about!

Cheers,

James

quote:

---

Originally posted by James
There was someone on the MS forum recently who mentioned something along the lines of: "All credit to those geniuses who worked out how to get squirt and sparks from the same original hardware".

Does that sound familiar to anyone and know what they're refering to? I've forgotten what they were on about!

Cheers,

James

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Northy
Has anyone looked at the "Megasquirtnspark-extra"?

---

Chris,

Any pictures of the install or details on a webpage somewhere?

Cheers

Not yet, but watch this space!

Chris

There is a chappie on the se7ens webring called Bill Shurvinton who is the UK agent for most things Megasquirt related. He can sell you a kit of parts to make up your own ECU and supply advice. I will try and get an e-mail address off him if anyone is interested?

well , if you went to www.msefi.com , youll find bill there - ive had some stuff off him , and hes a very nice chap .

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChrisW

quote:

---

Originally posted by Northy
Has anyone looked at the "Megasquirtnspark-extra"?

---

I've got this running on a Zetec powered XR2. Used the original megasquirt hardware, replaced the ignition with EDIS (was ESC2) and used the code mods to allow us to keep the fast idle solenoid.

Works a treat!

Chris

---

Lots of info here:

http://www.msefi.com/

Cheers

Well, I ordered two MegaJoltLiteJuniour PCB's and processors, one for me, one for a friend.

Is anyone else building one? Or a MegaSquirt derivative?
I'm a bit overwhelmed by all the MS derivatives out there, so have decided to start off simple. The hardest part is fitting the trigger wheel and sensor anyway!

Cheers

I have been looking at the megasquirt site and fancy having a go at ignition and injection as ive always been interested in electronics in this type of application.
However i have a dilema in that I was going to replace my crossflow with a blade engine which I already have.I dont think it would be worthwhile building a system for a bike engine . I am now thinking of fitting throttle bodys to my crossflow and using the bike engine for another project.
The one thing im not sure about is if its possible to set up an injection system without spending a fortune on rolling road time, can you drive the car in a basic state of tune and download to a laptop to allow fine tuning etc ? or does it all need to be done on the run?
I thought the street dyno system may be usefull for this.
Paul.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Northy
Is anyone else building one? Or a MegaSquirt derivative?
!

Cheers

---

Northy,

I've just taken delivery of a prebuild (from Brent) unit. Me being me, I have already taken it a part of to see inside, if you want photos of a finished artical I can upload them.

One thing that might be of intererst to you, you should know by now that you need an EDIS-4 & trigger wheel (amoungst other things). Wee I spent the weendedn down the scrappy to find mine, and out of 30 cars I found only one with the EDIS still in it and all of the cars where flywheel triggered NOT pulley. So I have had to order a trigger wheel from else where.

If you havent got your EDIS-4 yet, good luck as they seem to be getting rare.

paulf,

Take a look at http://dtaforum.psycode.com/ I found it while I was looking for an ignition map to start my 1800 Vauxhall. It has some downloadable maps that might hep you as a start (ign & fuel).

PioneerX,

I've got the Edis 4, trigger wheel (from a CVH Sierra), sensor and coil pack cheers

Have you thought how your going to mount your trigger wheel yet? What sort of wheel are you getting? Your 1800 VX and my 2L might not be a million miles away? Not sure.

Pictures would be great.

Cheers

I've built most of my MJLJ (ordered the wrong oscillator) which i'm hoping is going to run my 2.0 16v vauxhall.

Not got my donor bits yet so if anyone knows where there are any i'd be interested. I've not had a look at how i'm going to do the trigger wheel yet. Not much use i know but thought i'd join in anyway!

Northy,

Glad to hear you have the parts. I have not yet received my tigger wheel so am unsure how to mount it at this point.

As for the engines. I have the 1800 8v from the Carlton, so it would be almost identical to yours, by the looks to oyur pictures you have the same manfold I do and what looks like webers (dellortos on mine). Our cars must be fairly simular.

I have loads of build photos on my build site BUILD PHOTOS SITE, but none of the carb conversion & the MJLJ, those photos are waiting to be uploaded as part of Novembers build photos. I think with the number of request I have had to see the current state I will upload them over the next couple of days.

As for tigger wheel mounting, my current plan is to grind off the edge of the front pulley (power assist pulley) and weld the disk to the remaining section. The sensor I will bracket using the taps holes that hes the power assist pump braket. I will do photos as I do this, but this site is worth a look. MegaJolt installation

Regards

Simon

I'm running megajolt on a pinto engine. (the one in the photos i posted with the bike carbs).

I bought a complete unit from Brent because we were working to a deadline.

The trigger wheel from a CVH sierra has been mounted on the front pulley of the pinto. We drilled and tapped the pulley and bolted the timing wheel on with three small bolts and plenty of extra strength araldite!

Take a look here as an alternative to MS http://www.furyworld.fsnet.co.uk/

All,

As promised, the November part 1 photos (including a inside look at Brents prebuild MegaJolt) have been added to my build photos site

quote:

---

Originally posted by PioneerX
If you havent got your EDIS-4 yet, good luck as they seem to be getting rare.

---

ChrisW,

I guess they are just popular around here as out of 30 cars only one still had the module. Anyway thanks to that one I have my module now, just need a toothed wheel (on order) to complet the system. Finally I might get the engine running.

Going on a 2litre zetec - is easier than I first though it was going to be. So far spent less than an hour messing around.

Inlet manifold is a standard DCOE item

http://www.cantcatchme.net/fury/throttlebodies/

£75 for bike bodies
£60 for used Cossie Injectors
£60 for new fuel rail (Jenvey)

Left to do:
modify Linkages between bodies
fix bodies in place (simple angle ali)
fuel rail fixings
throttlecable bracket.

Benefits - Cheap; Fuel Rail is underslung

Aims - to be on the road before Christmas

so those throttle bodies , didnt need machining ? have they got the same internal diameter ? and fit into the already machined bolt holes ie same flange pattern ?

ive got my MS up and running on a Volvo 480 turbo

quote:

---

Originally posted by Volvorsport
so those throttle bodies , didnt need machining ? have they got the same internal diameter ? and fit into the already machined bolt holes ie same flange pattern ?

ive got my MS up and running on a Volvo 480 turbo

---

Steve,

Nice looking work!

Can't believe how straightforward that looks to put together.

See you're not too far away in Reading. You ought to come along to our Guildford/ Box Hill meets once a month.
See the clubs and events section for details.

Cheers,
James

quote:

---

Originally posted by James
Steve,

Nice looking work!

Can't believe how straightforward that looks to put together.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by James
See you're not too far away in Reading. You ought to come along to our Guildford/ Box Hill meets once a month.
See the clubs and events section for details.

Cheers,
James

---

lots of info on this site about making fuel rails, intake manifolds with injector bosses, etc

LINK

Paul

Practicle Performance Car magazine have been running a series on making DIY sparks and fuelling. They been using the Megasquirt and thr Ford IDIS for distibuter-less ignition. I've used the IDIS from Ford on a couple of cars to get rid of the dizzy.

Is there now a UK suplier fpr the parts?. I want to build a Megajolt to start with and then progress to a megasquirt .
As i see it i will need to buy a PCB, programmed cpu and map sensor , the other parts are obtainable locally.
Im also looking for some gsxr throttle bodys but not had any luck yet.
Paul.

I've just visited this thread for the first time in a while.
I'm frankly astounded by the compatability of the GSXR throttle bodies. I take it, it's because the adapters can swivel on the mounting rubbers ?

Anyway - don't publicise this too much - we don't want ebay prices going through the roof on this one

quote:

---

Originally posted by paulf
Is there now a UK suplier fpr the parts?. I want to build a Megajolt to start with and then progress to a megasquirt .
As i see it i will need to buy a PCB, programmed cpu and map sensor , the other parts are obtainable locally.

---

Hi Matt

thanks Matt U2U sent .

Paul.

quote:

---

Originally posted by mattdearden
[]
You want to speak to Bill Shurvinton. Email me and I'll give you his address

Matt Dearden
(2lt Pinto Cat)
http://www.cate1.co.uk/megajolt/
http://www.swtoc.co.uk

---

Reply sent

Hi Graham


[Edited on 25/11/04 by mattdearden]

hi, been following this for a while and like it a lot. sounds just the ticket for an experimetnal zetec (on twin 40's) that im tinkering with. is there a uk supplier??? - just the essentiaols and a list of other bits would be fine by me. (maybe maplin part no's?)
also, whats the going rate for and edis4? been offerd one for 10bob - value/rip off?

cheers guy, will keep posted on running of engine/setup etc

Rob I have been looking for the Pcb layout for the Willette programmer but not manged to find it yet, could you possibly email it to me ? or I have been considering building it on veroboard but would prefer a proper Pcb.
Thanks Paul.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rob Lane
Right, I did some more exploring.

I now have the programmer PCB layout, it's another single sided, easy to make board.

Just to recap, at the moment there is no programmed chip available for the MJolt lite BUT the code is there. So prog a chip and it's away, hence my searching.

Once I've built this programmer I will be able to program many chips should anyone in UK require one and it doesn't step on anyones toes.

Next job is PCB making. For just the two I'll forego the photo etching and do manual boards.

---

That reminds me, I've got a half built Willette programmer somewhere, but don't know which box it's in as we're moving on Thursday

I bought the PCB from the guy who designed it, have you tried him?

I also started building two MJLJ's before we started packing boxes.

According to the web site there is no group buy at the moment and none available, i have the circuit and if need be i will make a board from scratch using press and peel or similiar, but a board laypot would help.
Paul

quote:

---

Originally posted by Northy
I bought the PCB from the guy who designed it, have you tried him?

---

CairB - 3/1/05 at 09:05 PM

Paulf,

If it helps I made a board that is similar to the Willette board, but based on data from Motorola's data sheet. It was done using the free demo version of PCB Elegance available from Merco

Click here for PCB Elegance link

I have used it to successfully program several blank 68HC908GP32's that are used in the MegaSquirt.

U2U me if your interested.

Cheers,

Colin

---

tks - 10/5/05 at 10:07 PM

the map sensors are available as samples!

i have 10 of them (sampled 2 types)

gratuite for nothing..coming home..

TKS

any donations are welcome..

---

Confused but excited. - 3/2/07 at 06:47 PM

OOPS!

[Edited on 3/2/07 by Confused but excited.]

---