Following on from my previous post, the Zetec is in and running well, but I still have a top end noise.
I'm going to be putting 2.0 cams in soon and want to try to diagnose the cause of the noise when I fit them. There is no apparent wear on the
existing cams and the valve clearances are fine.
However to me the noise sounds like a worn cam, except for it comes and goes a bit when cold and goes completely when warm.
The engine runs fine and has been driven hard over the past couple of weeks with no problems.
Any suggestions?
Link to video
Thanks
Stu
I can not think how that is cam train noise ?
quote:
I can not think how that is cam train noise ?
Why don't you use the locost stethoscope, put a screwdriver to your ear then touch it on the cam cover , move it along to see if the sound is
louder in a particular position. Then try to touch other parts of the engine. It wont tell you what is causing the problem, but this would give you an
idea where the noise is coming from. 
Sounds like a small end bearing gone....
Sorry to agree with the above, but it does sound like an end knock to me too 
Valves tapping piston tops ? is the cam timing right ? or as above small end
disconnect the water pump belt run the engine this will rule out water pums altenator etc, had a simmilar problem with the silvertop, problem was Knackered alternator bearing
Thanks
I'd considered a small end bearing. I'm surprised that it goes away when warm though.
I'm 99% sure its not the alternator as its a new Denso one. I'll check though.
Are small end failures common on Zetecs?
Stu
Thanks
I'd considered a small end bearing. I'm surprised that it goes away when warm though.
I'm 99% sure its not the alternator as its a new Denso one. I'll check though.
Are small end failures common on Zetecs?
Stu
Thanks
I'd considered a small end bearing. I'm surprised that it goes away when warm though.
I'm 99% sure its not the alternator as its a new Denso one. I'll check though.
Are small end failures common on Zetecs?
Stu
Take it you are still on hydrualic lifters ? What grade of oil are you using ?
Black tops arnt hydraulic, solid with shims
Be aware that pulling the head to have a look will cost more to rebuild than another engine.
Whip off the cam cover to inspect the cams and use the trusty feeler gauge to check the 'tappets'. Inlet - 0.15mm. Exhaust - 0.30mm
cold.
At least it should identify a cam train fault.
I had a noise very much like a noisy cam when I did a rebuild, turned out the throttle pot was not set correctly meaning the timing was way out, caused pinking which cleared when the revs picked up...really had me going for a while!
just listened to the video, i would go with the little end theory, sounds to heavy for valve clearences.
Small end bearing
Wouldn't affect power, would probably quieten down when the engine was warm - valves hitting pistons wouldn't and you'd probably have
broken it properly by now - valve clearance problems would be audible when you revved it from cold......
So if it's a small end is it likely to fail?
At the moment the car goes really well.
I'm tempted to drive until it pops.
Stu
When it does go .................... by by enginge
pist-n-broke
[Edited on 12/7/08 by big_wasa]
Has anyone got experience of this happening on a Zetec?
Stu,
A friend is a driving instructor and had tapetty noises on his last car (sigma powered fiesta). He never got to the bottom of it.
On his current car (same engine), the same noise appeared almost immediately after his first service.
When the car went in for its service, the oil was clear (he changes it every 2-3k miles). When it came out, it was black. Local dealership was
obviously using the lowest grade oil it could get away with.
It took 3/4 flushes of the engine to get rid of the noise, and the car no longer goes into the local Ford dealership.
[Edited on 13/7/08 by stevebubs]
Just listened to the vid. Definitely louder than the problem my mate had - that was just a clickety click.
Did it make that noise before fitting the bike carbs ? it sounds a bit like mine but louder mine is the carb slides tapping untill you rev the engine
its just a thought
Jacko
quote:
Did it make that noise before fitting the bike carbs ?
I've had a good search on google and can't find anything on small end failure in Zetecs.
The oil that came out of the engine was dead clean and there's no noise from the bottom end. The oil light goes out on the starter [not checked
the oil pressure though].
I know it's an impossible question to answer, but is it really that likely that the small ends will fail in an otherwise good engine?
Stu
[Edited on 13/7/08 by whitestu]
Not likely, but possible, so don't rule out....
I would be suprised if it's cam shaft related - Cams normally wear on the tips, which means you get less lift - I don't think it would make
that racket......
Can you get to the con rods from the bottom of the car (if you take off the sump?) - May be worth giving the rods a pull to see if there is any
play....
Also are you 100% sure the shims are all in?
It is strange that it gets better when the car is warm.....
Also check alternator mounting bracket....
quote:
Can you get to the con rods from the bottom of the car (if you take off the sump?) - May be worth giving the rods a pull to see if there is any play....
quote:
Also are you 100% sure the shims are all in?
quote:
It is strange that it gets better when the car is warm.....
Just checked the alternator etc and the noise is still there with the belt off.
It sounds to be coming from the top end on the exhaust side.
Valve clearances are all fine as well.
Looks like I need another Zetec then!!
Stu
[Edited on 14/7/08 by whitestu]
Oddball question - are all the sparkplugs in properly?
quote:
Oddball question - are all the sparkplugs in properly?
If you move your hand round the engine, can you feel anything blowing?
Noise could be accounted for by a gasket or something blowing but when everything has expanded then it seals back up....hence the question around the
plugs....
Worth checking the exhaust manifold is perfectly flat?
The exhaust manifold is blowing slightly but the noise the engine is making doesn't sound like a manifold blow.
Just checked and there is a very tiny blow through one of the welds, but not the manifold gasket. Otherwise exhaust is well sealed.
Stu
[Edited on 14/7/08 by whitestu]
Have you done a leakdown test?
quote:
Have you done a leakdown test?
http://www.type2.com/library/engineg/leaktst.htm
Basically, if you put pressure into the cylinder, and the source of the noise *is* a leak then you're in a better position to find the leak as the engine isn't running....
Thanks.
I'm pretty sure the noise is mechanical rather than a leak.
If it is a leak I reckon it would be cheaper and easier to replace the engine than fix it.
My only concern with swapping the engine is that the noise will still be there after the swap!
Stu
I think its unlikely to be small ends as these engines run the gudgeon pin directly in the piston and it is an inteference fit in the rod, it would be
unlikely that one small end was worn in an otherwise good engine.I would just drive it and see what happens, as already mentioned it is cheaper to get
another engine than do any major work on one.
Paul.
quote:
I would just drive it and see what happens
just having a nosey through this thread and just wondering if you've gotten any further with this problem?
I'm assuming it's not gotten worse as I can't see any "Wanted: replacement zetec" threads started by you lol
just wondering paul w
No, it's still going and hasn't got any worse.
I'm just going to drive it and see if it breaks.
When warm it sounds fine. I've been thrashing it and it seems quite happy.
Stu
that's the spirit! glad to hear it too
I think I could well be looking at a zetec swap when I've finished my build (although I haven't even started yet) so no doubt I'll be
stalking all the zetec posts for months to come...