Ok, Ok i take it all back. The more i think about it, the more im beginning to get excited.

Originally, ive planned a BEC Locost with an RSV Mille engine, but a guy at work has a Rover 3.5 +.020", honed Crank and stage 3 heads that he might give me.

Has anyone looked at V8's? I reckon i could make it fit, and with a bit of thinking (and metal) i reckon i could make the chassis strong enough. Im new to V8 Transmission though. Manual is of course preferrable, as is 5 gears for economy (where applicable!!)

Ive got a supercharger i would put on it too, and access to a nitrous kit for an additional 75hp injection. All together, i reckon i could muscle up around about 400hp..... maybe.....

The questions i have are:

1. What V8 Manual transmission is best? There are a few different types.

2. Which rear axle would be best, without the need for modification? - Obviously i would like wider rear tyres so as not to waste the power with too much whelspin, so the wheel offset needs to be quite shallow depending on axle width.

3. Has anyone here put a V8 into a Locost before? - If so, i would like to hear the stories. (Good & Bad)

4. Does anyone know a good shrink?

Ill keep plotting, drawing and dribbling and ill keep you posted.

Simon on here has a twin turbo'd Rover V8.

A big heavy V8 in the front of a very lightweight car isn't going to do the handling any favours IMO.

I think if you get 400bhp then there aint gonna be much "locost" about it.

You'll need uprated parts to deal with that sort of power, and then you need to upgrade the parts that can stop that sort of power, and make it handle.

Oh and how will you fabricate the front end to fit HGV air suspension to deal with the weight of that CAR engine

quote:

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Originally posted by MikeRJ
A big heavy V8 in the front of a very lightweight car isn't going to do the handling any favours IMO.

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Dont forgot to get yourself a donor card too!!! 400bhp and all that supercharged V8 torque makes me think you might need one!!

I know a lad who has a big BHP Rover V8 in the front of a Dax.

It looks and sounds great, and once it's on the move it's fantastic.

The only trouble with it seems to be traction from a standing start. He has masssssssssiiiiiiiiivvvvvvvvvvvveeeeee back tyres and despite all that rubber, when pulling away it spins them up!

He was round at a mates house one day and went to pull away, span the back tyres up, and it sort of drifted the back end down the camber of the road until the sidewall hit the kerb!

I say go for it! Good luck!

Cheers

Mike

Loads of people have done it so you'd hardly be treading unchartered territory - 400bhp is about 200 too much for a 7 however - go for it by all means but you really are just wasting your money after you get much more than 200bhp

Compared with the BEC you were planning, the V8 is going to be very torquey. Think wheelspin. Think wheel spin in every gear on dry roads. Think lairy snaking away from traffic lights.

I knew someone with a Westfield Seight. He thought it a bit much really and he didn't have 400 BHP.

It will be a really fast car. Very, very fast, if you can put the power down. The rover V8 engine isn't really all that heavy. I'd think carefully about what diff and rear axle I'd use with that much power.

You'll also have to think about the steering column. You'll probably need a few UJs to guide the column around the exhaust manifolds. Westfield, MNR and DAX have had V8s in their cars so it can be done.

An LT77 gearbox from SD1 would be the best bet price/value wise, if ytou can get one at a reasonable price an R380 would be better.

Wider wheels won't necessarily get you more traction, as the weight of the car is spread over a wider area. It's really all to do with tyres.

Carb wise, go for the weber (edelbrock) 500 on an edelbrock manifold. Do NOT get the holley/offenhauser.

With a resonable cam you should get over 200 bhp and that really is all you will want to start off with.

John

i dont know much about these v8 but when i went my local garage this week they had a landy with the 3.9 v8 and a supercharger they use to race he said it was about 300bhp and when he started it up it sounded awesome just my 2p worth

To answer some of the stupid questions :

A. I dont have to Uprate anything because it doesnt exist yet

B. When you build anything, you SELECT THE CORRECT SUITABLE COMPONENTS

C. The handling and takeoff is mostly down to suspension geometry at the end of the day. The engine really doesnt weigh that much more than a Pinto, so no major mods needed other than strength for stresses in Acc, Decell, and cornering at speed.

I reckon a four link rear and live axle set up well would keep the wheels on the floor for a while.

"Compared with the BEC you were planning, the V8 is going to be very torquey. Think wheelspin. Think wheel spin in every gear on dry roads. Think lairy snaking away from traffic lights. "

Well, Happy Days!!

I know its not unchartered territory, but the challenge of making all those horses stick to the floor is. Hopefully, its a bit clearer where im coming from now.

Thanks all for the replies.

lol, if you know the answers why did you ask the question?

[Edited on 5/9/08 by D Beddows]

Making the horses stick to the road is going to be down to a lot more than suspension geometry!! The massive torque will spin the tyres up no matter how good the geometry so its going to be a bit more than an engineering excercise. If you think driving a car that spins its wheels in every gear all the time is going to be fun then i think you are in for a shock!! There are a few big hp cars (Cossy turbo's etc) out there and i think most would admit that they are simply too much to be fun.

I know that you've been offered a unit, but if it's got you thinking about V8's, then I would look at something a bit more modern.

Audi V8's are nice and light and are reasonable price-wise.

My main gripe with older V8's is Carb's... I hate 'em!

if you do go ahead, be careful supercharging it.

i seem to remember that the eaton supercharger (quite a popular choice i'm told) is just far too small for the engine and can cause problems

Check out this website, lots of info on the rover V8

Link

Nice website.

Brand new complete long engine with EFI and all ancilliaries £5695

Stage 1 head with cams and new ECU (upto 260 BHP) plus £895 or...

bigger everything spec with stage 4 head a snip at £7945.

You said you didn't want carbs.

To spend big money on a rover v8 one need to be either a big fan of the rover, or ill informed.

Nowadays people who would have had a massively uprated Rv8 in the past are now buying new Chevrolet LS series engines.

John

i'd agree. lots of people have spent big bucks on rover v8's and got some impressive figures only for the cost of LS1's to make all of that seem pointless.

there are quite a few cobra owners ditching the rover v8 in favour of an LS1 not only more hp in stock trim, but better fuel economy. (maybe you could get one of their rovers)

however, given the issue of getting the power down i think a stock v8 would be more than sufficient. it does take some getting used to. definately dont get a four speed box. hopeless. 1st gear with a v8 seven is only to be used for parking. pull away in second, third even fourth is a doddle due to the torque. i use second to avoid leaving black stripes everywhere. that said its perfectly possible to pull away smoothly in first...its just that when you see a gap and think right i'd better give it some to avoid making him slow down, and boot it all you do is sit there spinning away!

if you want huge torque in every gear, the best sound in the world and be able to pick up a rebuilt second hand engine for 500 quid. rover v8's the way to go.

makes me smile before i even take it out of the garage.best thing i ever did.

paul

quote:

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Originally posted by MakeEverything
"Manual is of course preferrable, as is 5 gears for economy (where applicable!!)

Ive got a supercharger i would put on it too, and access to a nitrous kit for an additional 75hp injection. All together, i reckon i could muscle up around about 400hp..... maybe.....

Not likely to be compatible with economy

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MakeEverything - 5/9/08 at 10:43 AM

quote:

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Originally posted by D Beddows
lol, if you know the answers why did you ask the question?

[Edited on 5/9/08 by D Beddows]

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I didnt ask the questions i just answered! Derrr

Modern engines are fantastic - Golf R32 V6, Type R, M5, etc etc, but ive been offered a reconditioned stage 3 powerplant for a song, an i just cant turn it down.

I know the wheels will spin whatever the geometry, but lets be honest, you can make a 1.1 fiesta spin its wheels if you really want to.
It would just need to be driven accordingly, and driven with a little caution which is exactly what i am after. No need to go Nuts out everywhere it drives - been there, done that.

I want to build a car that is unique, a bit of a handful and bloody quick. I know old Rovers arent the "best" engine in the world, but its simple, cheap and they work.

If its too much of a handful in the wet, then it doesnt go out in the wet. If its only good for the drag strip, then it goes there more often than track days etc etc.

The Engineering challenges of harnessing such power, and adding / removing stuff to make it run right or do what i want it to do is appealing (or appalling..?) in a nerdy kinda way.

There are also challenges such as introducing Fuel Injection, different Cam, Different Valves, or timing settings etc, the same way putting R1 carbs on a Zetec, or programmable ECU's on engines etc adds interest to other Locosters.

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MakeEverything - 5/9/08 at 10:49 AM

Thanks Swanny, Nail, Head, and hit.

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mr henderson - 5/9/08 at 10:55 AM

quote:

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Originally posted by MakeEverything

quote:

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Originally posted by D Beddows
lol, if you know the answers why did you ask the question?

[Edited on 5/9/08 by D Beddows]

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I didnt ask the questions i just answered! Derrr

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I think he is assuming that the MakeEverything who did indeed ask the questions at the start of the thread is the same person as you, which apparently he isn't.

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MikeRJ - 5/9/08 at 11:07 AM

quote:

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Originally posted by 02GF74
a common misconception; rover v8 is all alloy, big but light compared to old fords.

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Where did the 150kg come from though? It's been questioned on here before as it seems too low. It might be all alloy, but it's a big engine. Then you have to take into account the big heavy gearbox that will be needed to take the power.

Unless it's one of the rather lovely ones made from two bike engines, V8's suit muscle cars and Cobras a lot better than a 7 IMO. It seems a bit pointless building what is supposed to be a very lightweight, sweet handling car and then sticking a heavy V8 in the nose. Each to their own though.

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Paul TigerB6 - 5/9/08 at 11:08 AM

quote:

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Originally posted by MakeEverything
If its too much of a handful in the wet, then it doesnt go out in the wet. If its only good for the drag strip, then it goes there more often than track days etc etc.

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And if its only good for pub bragging rights while being too impossible to drive to truly be fast then it gets parked in the carpark of the White Swan??

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Paul TigerB6 - 5/9/08 at 11:16 AM

quote:

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Originally posted by MikeRJWhere did the 150kg come from though?

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144kg according to Wiki - only 10kg more than a Pinto. I was surprised myself!!

linky

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Delinquent - 5/9/08 at 11:21 AM

quote:

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Originally posted by MikeRJ

quote:

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Originally posted by 02GF74
a common misconception; rover v8 is all alloy, big but light compared to old fords.

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Where did the 150kg come from though? It's been questioned on here before as it seems too low. It might be all alloy, but it's a big engine. Then you have to take into account the big heavy gearbox that will be needed to take the power.

Unless it's one of the rather lovely ones made from two bike engines, V8's suit muscle cars and Cobras a lot better than a 7 IMO. It seems a bit pointless building what is supposed to be a very lightweight, sweet handling car and then sticking a heavy V8 in the nose. Each to their own though.

---

Not only that, but as others have said, there are so many better engines out there, I really don't understand why anyone would contemplate a RV8 at all any more, unless they read too many custom car magazines as a Lad.

400bhp and similar levels of torque are almost available as standard with alternatives, and you could get close to that with a far smaller lighter unit that would be more in keeping with the sevens ethos.

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MakeEverything - 5/9/08 at 11:25 AM

doing a bit more reading, its looking more like 150kg.

If the car is lightweight, and the engine is what it is, then its less for the engine to drag along!

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MakeEverything - 5/9/08 at 11:29 AM

quote:

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but ive been offered a reconditioned stage 3 powerplant for a song, an i just cant turn it down.

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[Edited on 5/9/08 by MakeEverything]

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AdamR - 5/9/08 at 12:42 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by mr henderson
An LT77 gearbox from SD1 would be the best bet price/value wise, if ytou can get one at a reasonable price an R380 would be better.

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Borg Warner T5 is a much stronger box than the LT77, but I agree they are more expensive. There are usually some being sold by a TVR breaker on eBay complete with RV8 bellhousing. Worth a look.

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AdamR - 5/9/08 at 12:44 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by mr henderson
An LT77 gearbox from SD1 would be the best bet price/value wise, if ytou can get one at a reasonable price an R380 would be better.

---

Borg Warner T5 is a much stronger box than the LT77, but I agree they are more expensive. There are usually some being sold by a TVR breaker on eBay complete with RV8 bellhousing. Worth a look.

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CaptainJosh - 5/9/08 at 12:54 PM

Check out www.locostusa.com , in the build diarys there are some v8 locosts, they work completely fine.

To be honest, alot of people in the UK are 'afraid' of V8's because we don't have them in alot of production cars. But a V8 locost is built heavier, bigger, and using a decent recent small block means the power to weight ratio is still rediculous. And most of all, its still safe.

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TPG - 5/9/08 at 01:54 PM

How about a BMW V8.I have one in a E38 740i. I am soon to sell the car. But if it doesn't go...Well.A light modern V8,backed by a 5 speed 'tip' box(Modify the shift to flappy paddles).traction control etc etc. Don't be put off by the electronics.They are pretty easy.Transfer the lot and shorten or modify to fit.I've done it with a M30 3.5 into a E30,fly by wire also.Its stupid quick in the current barge,think of it in a Locost.There is a BMW based haynes roadster about somewhere.Good luck anyway

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adam1985 - 5/9/08 at 02:14 PM

i think the first idea was best. BEC

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NS Dev - 5/9/08 at 02:20 PM

I'm not remotely afraid of V8's, I'm a complete petrolhead and NO car I have EVER been in has "scared" or " worried" me due to excessive power, in fact most feel like they could use more. (this includes a 720hp Ultima by the way, I do speak here from experience! )

Personally, I think a V8 is a waste of time and effort in a seven of any sort.

Too much torque for the wheels to make any use of, delivered at totally the wrong rpm to be of any use.

Personally I then think that MOST bike engines err too far the opposite way.

A high revving v6 with around 300-325hp, or a 270hp 4 cylinder engine, both normally aspirated, will make for the fastest 7, just check lap times on any track.

Yes, playing with the V8 will be great fun, it will be a good laugh for a few months, but I think you will then tire of it.

Up to you though, we just race one!

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mark chandler - 5/9/08 at 03:19 PM

Its what you want to achieve really,a car thats really fast in a straight line and spins the wheels or is just really fast.

Have a google at some 750mc event results, you will see that 893cc blade engined westfields lap small circuits slightly faster than 4.0 v8 ones.

Long circuits with big straights this reverses and the v8's take over.

This does tend to be tweaked Rv8's so pushing around 250bhp compared to 130bhp BEC power.

Where they have 4.6 rv8s they are a little slower but then the later cross bolted engines weigh a little more.

Its LOCOST so if its free use it I say.

NB/ I had this dilemna a few years ago as I have a tweaked 4.6 on the floor from my earlier racing days, chose to go BEC as its ultimately cheaper over a few years without compromise in performance.

Low tax class
Less wear on tyres
Sounds fantastic

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smart51 - 5/9/08 at 06:37 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by NS Dev
Personally, I think a V8 is a waste of time and effort in a seven of any sort.

Too much torque for the wheels to make any use of, delivered at totally the wrong rpm to be of any use.

Personally I then think that MOST bike engines err too far the opposite way.

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Yeah. A big bike engine with VVT to give more low end pull would probably be perfect.

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Fred W B - 5/9/08 at 07:45 PM

Re RV8 mass, I posted the below ages ago

Cheers

Fred W B


Early Rover RV8 mass

Having found various posts on here re the mass of a Rover RV8 motor, which seem to disagree, thought I would weight the one I have in the garage.

It is a very early 3.5 motor from a P6, engine number 4550100886A, which was built between 1967 and 1976, according to www.rimmerbros.co.uk

The total mass, including starter (9kg!) , water pump, alternator, engine rubber mounts, inlet manifold and distributor came to 125 kg.

Note that the following were not included:

Standard Exhaust manifolds (5 kg each)
Flywheel to suit manual gearbox (14 kg)
Clutch (6 kg)
Carbs
Fan
Oil Filter
Oil
Water hosing
Water

So a complete motor with exhaust manifolds, flywheel and clutch but without other items mentioned above would weight 155 kg or say 340 UK pounds. (1 kg = 2.20462 pounds)

Cheers

Fred W B

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Simon - 6/9/08 at 07:15 PM

Rover V8, you know it makes sense!

Right sound, good compromise on price and with injection and right gearing would be reasonable on economy too.

I did try and bring in some pics from my blog, which didn't work, so have a look at that instead - link at bottom of post

Hope this gives you some ideas!

ATB

Simon

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MakeEverything - 8/9/08 at 01:22 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by NS Dev
this includes a 720hp Ultima by the way, I do speak here from experience! )
Up to you though, we just race one!

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Then youll already know that varying modifications on engines have different effects. such as a Supercharger, to increase low revs torque, which was why i mentioned it originally.

Thankyou all for your input. Im still completely undecided at the moment, and the views in the thread are mixed, and offer som excellent resource and advice. Thankyou.

I was discussing the BEC idea earlier today with a friend "Tiger" Owner, and the subject of an Atom type kit was available, to utilise the front end of a civic...??? Anyone know anything about it?

The objective for me, is to have something that is good allround, bearing in mind that top end is no good in the UK (Other than on a track officer...) and accelleration is more fun, as is spinning the wheels at 70. I would commute the odd day, so it needs to be reasonably friendly and efficient - both of which are achievable from a V8.

The V8 became an option because it was really cheap, though in all (Megajolt Injection, Headers, alu material for brackets, manifolds etc), probably no more cheaper than buying a BEC power package i suppose, however the sound and torque from a RV8 is an addictive " nice to have".

Another option that i came up with today (to deal with the Road Tax issue here in the UK) was a three wheeler (one wheel at the rear)......

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jamie1107 - 8/9/08 at 02:24 PM

if you want a big power v8 possibly one of the worst to go for is a rover they will never make over 300hp and bits cost alot you will also find almost all the big bore blocks will have cracked a friend of mine has a shop next to a well known rover v8 tuner who have a constanty full skip of blocks that are u s
if you really want a v8 then a chevy might be the way to go bits are cheep over 1000hp is achievable and they are rock solid but putting all that weight in such a light car seems a bit of a shame big power plus heavy engine means it will turn in quicker than you can react

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