MarkL
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| posted on 2/2/04 at 10:23 PM |
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Rover V8 Dilemma
Just like waiting for a bus, been looking around for a Rover V8 for sometime for my Viento and this week and a couple have come along.
First was a P5 but never had the intention to use this one, an SD1 for free could not turn that down from an auto, good nick inside one broken bolt
from the engine mount and a cross spark Plug.
So after taking those out I thought I would phone a friend.
The last one is a cross bolted 4.6 block sump, crank, no heads although he has a pair of SD1 heads and a starter. It's comes with a bill from
Real Steel for £750 + vat where he bought it 6 months ago the price is to me is £600. The question is is it worth it? And is it a good route to go
down?
My original intention was to bore out a 3.5 or find a 3.9 the cost of the rebuild kit from rimmers is over £800 and the 4.6 does not need a rebore.
Has anyone used this block or any thoughts on the cost to rebuild it?
Mark
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mackie
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| posted on 2/2/04 at 10:47 PM |
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Sounds nice but I really doubt if the heads from an SD1 engine will be suitable.
Personally I'd go for a 3.5 or 3.9 unless you really want to make big power and fancy spending a lot of money.
I don't know how much 4.6 heads are but i'd hazard a guess that they aint cheap.
What kind of power are you after? What's your budget?
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MarkL
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| posted on 2/2/04 at 11:27 PM |
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I wasnt looking for 4.6 power, but now I have had the offer I am not sure which way to go, the reason for the 3.9 was for torque I have driven a few
and have to say I am very impressed over a straight 3.5.
I was going to budget £1500- 2000, although towards the end of the build I have no doubt this would get a lot less.
Thought the 3.9 would cost £400 for the machine work £800 for the rebuild kit, £550 for the carb + other bits and bobs.
It ment no looking for a stiff block no machine work, not having to buy pistons & liners and strong enough for whatever I could throw at it.
Mark
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Simon
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| posted on 3/2/04 at 12:27 AM |
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Mark,
Right, thought I'd better investigate properly, as this could result in an expensive f/up. For you
According to the Rimmer catalogue, the 4.0/4.6l engines require cyl head volume of 28cc (4.6 Hi comp reqs 34-36 - but think that's a special
order engine - 28cc refers 8.13:1 and 9.35:1 c/ratios); 3.5/3.9l engines require volume of 34-36cc. Best bet would be to ring Rimmers (with an engine
number) and speak to them. If it turns out you can only use 4.6l heads, it might be an expensive exercise. Another point is the number of rows of
cylinder head bolts. Rimmers web site now has a pdf of their catalogue - have a look at pages 13 & 14.
I was going to look at a 3.9 but an absolute corker of a 3.5 turned up. Cost me 500 quid, but reckon well worth it.
HTH a bit
ATB
Simon
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MarkL
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| posted on 3/2/04 at 12:37 AM |
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Thanks for the info I am going to look at the engine on Friday and I will get the engine number.
It,s always the case something sounds good but when you investigate it's never quite the bargin you think.
One again thanks for your help.
Mark
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craig1410
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| posted on 4/2/04 at 10:48 PM |
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Guys,
I think the reduced combustion chamber volume was to make up for the use of a composite head gasket. See the following quote:
"Tempest and Thor. With the introduction of the new Range Rover in 1994 a new head was brought into being, with a revised casting (No 2479) the
head had larger ports than the vitesse heads but retained the same valves and guides which were present from ~1993 onwards. The combustion chamber
volume (29cc) was also reduced (by simply machining off more material on the face) to compensate for the increased thickness of the composite head
gaskets and probably most noticeable, the 14 head bolts were reduced to 10, the 4 outermost being removed. Incase you're told otherwise, 4.0 and
4.6 litre heads are identical.
Casting Numbers: HRC 2479 "
The above is from here
This confirms my own understanding and I have read somewhere that the latest Range Rover heads are the best to go for if you can get them. However, I
believe that you could use SD1 heads on a Range Rover block provided you used the thin tin head gasket. Make sure you speak to someone like RPI or
Rimmers though to check that there are no issues with valve to piston clearances etc.
My advice would be to steer clear of the P5/6 engines as they have a notoriously leaky rope type oil seal fitted to the crank which tends to oil up
your clutch. The clutches for RV8's are bloody expensive so this is not good news. The P5/6 may (depending on year) also have some trouble with
unleaded fuel while the SD1 is fine. Try to find an engine which you can hear and see running, ideally from an SD1/Vitesse/Vanden Plas car which has
finally been given up to the rust monster. They can still be found if you look in the right places and look hard enough.
There could be a lot of work and extra expense finishing off the 4.6 build and it will probably have quite a low compression ratio which will make it
very thirsty on fuel and less powerful than it should be (still plenty of BHP mind...)
Finally, don't underestimate the cost or hassle in finding all the ancillaries to get the engine going. This is where finding a donor vehicle is
really key to getting good value as you can get absolutely everything you might need including wiring, sensors, carbs/efi, alternator, starter, fuel
pump, distributor, electronic control units, ignition coil, water pump, oil pump etc etc.
I hope this helps,
Craig.
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MarkL
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| posted on 4/2/04 at 11:27 PM |
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Craig
It realy does amaze me the effort people go to help out fellow builders thanks for the info.
Spoke to the guy today for more background he got the engine for his Ford pop when his engine went pop, so he bought this from real steel on impulse
then bought a bike rebuilt his current engine and is now selling his pop.
Thats why he is left with this engine, the big draw back is that I have not seen it yet.
I am begining to think that this might be expensive after I budget for all the bits, I could have sourced a good 3.5 or 3.9.
Mark
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MarkL
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| posted on 4/2/04 at 11:28 PM |
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Craig
It realy does amaze me the effort people go to help out fellow builders thanks for the info.
Spoke to the guy today for more background he got the engine for his Ford pop when his engine went pop, so he bought this from real steel on impulse
then bought a bike rebuilt his current engine and is now selling his pop.
Thats why he is left with this engine, the big draw back is that I have not seen it yet.
I am begining to think that this might be expensive after I budget for all the bits, I could have sourced a good 3.5 or 3.9.
Mark
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craig1410
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| posted on 5/2/04 at 01:04 PM |
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Mark,
Have you seen this one on Ebay?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2458272309&category=27382
It is a Rover V8 Vitesse engine and Cosworth T5 gearbox in a car (Capri) and can be seen/heard running. It has alegedly only done a few thousand miles
since rebuild. Current bid is £510 and this has met the reserve.
This sounds more like what I think you should be after, even if it might mean travelling half way across the country to get it. It's worth it to
get a good 'un!
Cheers,
Craig.
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ned
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| posted on 5/2/04 at 01:08 PM |
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I posted that engine under the bargains elsewhere section a few days ago...
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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craig1410
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| posted on 5/2/04 at 01:20 PM |
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Ned,
Yes, that's where I found it...
Sorry, I should have given you due credit for the find (sound of hand slapping wrist).
Cheers,
Craig.
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mackie
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| posted on 5/2/04 at 03:35 PM |
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Oooh, looks very interesting, too late now though :/
I hope it doesn't go for less than we got ours for...
[Edited on 5/2/04 by mackie]
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James
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| posted on 5/2/04 at 04:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mackie
I hope it doesn't go for less than we got ours for...
[Edited on 5/2/04 by mackie]
It's got another 8 days to go! I wouldn't worry to much yet! 
James
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MarkL
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| posted on 5/2/04 at 06:28 PM |
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Thanks lad's With 8 days to go I will keep an eye on it.
It doesn't seam bad at the present but it depends on how far it goes. I have a T5 box but would not mind getting another one after the trouble I
had finding the last one, still need an engine and bellhousing though.
Knowing my luck after this the price will go vertical.
Mark
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craig1410
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| posted on 5/2/04 at 09:27 PM |
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Mark,
You can always sell the spare box afterwards and recoup some costs.
I'd say that a Vitesse V8 with even a standard Rover gearbox would be worth about £450 but with the T5 it must be closer to £650 or even
slightly more, especially if the engine has recently been rebuilt. I got my engine for £175 and my gearbox for £140 but that was about as cheap as it
gets for decent bits. The Rover LT77 gearbox is a weakness so the T5 is a good alternative and worth a bit extra. Also, my engine is an original 1977
SD1 engine with 90k miles on it.
Good luck with the auction, I hope you get it!
Cheers,
Craig.
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