HappyFather
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 posted on 31/3/12 at 11:14 PM |
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First start failed - CBR900 carbs... Help, please?
Hello!
Tried to start the car for the first time today. It has a CBR900RR engine ('94, on carbs) that has been standing for two years. The engine has
the original airbox (although we took it off while trying to run it) and a Mitsubishi fuel pump.
First problem is that, as soon as I turn the key on the ignition to the 1st position, the digidash lights up and the fuel pump starts to make (lots
of) noise but no fuel comes out of it. I checked and it was blowing from the pipe that connects on the carbs. I had only (a bit less than) 2litres of
fuel on the tank. My friend believes I need to have more fuel, that the pump is sucking air.
But the other thing... When I moved the key to the start position, a "click" (or "clack" would come from the area where I
have the battery, ignition control module and rectifier and all would turn off, just like if a fuse had blown. And for a few minutes I couldn't
start anything again.
I had forgotten that I need to have the clutch down if the car is in gear (I believe it is) and/or because of the "standing support" (I
don't have a short for it). Could it be because the clutch wasn't down that I got the clack and all would turn dark?
I was expecting to get some noise from the starter engine when moving the key to start, but as it all went dark, there was no noise coming from
there.
By the way, multimeter shows 12,48v on the battery, even with the Digidash and fuel pump drawing power, so that seems OK, I guess.
Is it just a case of putting more fuel, the clutch down and trying again? Or you guys see other issues around? How much is the minimum fuel I should
have in the tank (large one) to have enough to fill the pipes and do my first attempts?
Thank you all for reading and any tips!
HappyFather
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ReMan
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| posted on 31/3/12 at 11:27 PM |
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Keeping things VERY simple for a start
I would suggest that 2 lites is barely enough to cover the pick up in the tank
And a questioin, have you ever turned the engine over , by hand , or by pushing the car in gear?
The reason I ask is tha tit souds a bit like the starter is trying to turn a siezed engine?
Edited to remove beer spelling mitskes
[Edited on 31/3/12 by ReMan]
www.plusnine.co.uk
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Coopz
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| posted on 1/4/12 at 05:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
Keeping things VERY simple for a start
I would suggest that 2 lites is barely enough to cover the pick up in the tank
And a questioin, have you ever turned the engine over , by hand , or by pushing the car in gear?
The reason I ask is tha tit souds a bit like the starter is trying to turn a siezed engine?
Edited to remove beer spelling mitskes
[Edited on 31/3/12 by ReMan]
No you haven't.... Drink-typing is a dangerous game!
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mad-butcher
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| posted on 1/4/12 at 07:02 AM |
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Lets start with the basics, a lot of 1st start issues ( the clank ) you describe can in the majority of cases be put down to a bad earth, we all build
our cars, wire them up the lights work etc but the moment we put any substantial load ie starter motor the bad earth shows up.( I'm as guilty as
the rest when I go to start the R1 I just push the terminals on the battery posts then wonder why the starter clicks).
put 5 litres of fuel in the tank pull the feed pipe off the the T piece that feeds the left and right pair of carbs get someone to turn the power on
to prime the pump till you get fuel coming out of the pipe, then replace the pipe and hopefully away you go
tony
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 1/4/12 at 07:23 AM |
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Double check battery connections and indeed started motor connections, as above sounds like something is loose.
More fuel, and check you are getting voltage to the starter when you try to start the thing. If there are lots of unknowns, you will need to work
through them (ie is the starter OK, engine free to turn etc)
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maccmike
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| posted on 1/4/12 at 07:41 AM |
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agree with starting with basics. more fuel. lines off to check for fuel feed. fully charged battery. whip starter out and test it. try different
starter relay on it. check earths.
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IainL
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| posted on 1/4/12 at 07:51 AM |
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More fuel in the tank, check the earths (as mentioned in the replies above).
Check you are getting fuel out of the outlet of the pump by romoving the outlet pipe from the pump and turning the ignition on.
As the engine hasn't been started for a while check for fuel leaks where the fuel hoses attached to the carbs as with mine the O-Rings had dried
out and didn't seal. If this does happes leave for a day and they should re-seal.
Keep us posted on the successful first start.
Cheers,
IainL
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HappyFather
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| posted on 1/4/12 at 10:11 AM |
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Thank you all for the replies.
I'll buy more fuel and move the car around the garage first to spread the oil in the engine. And try to get it in neutral afterwards.
If with more fuel, after moving it and with the clutch down I still get just the "clank", how do I test the earth? I have a multimeter but
I don't know very well how to use it 
Once again, my thanks to all!
HappyFather
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mad-butcher
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| posted on 1/4/12 at 10:31 AM |
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you'll need a lot more than pushing it round the garage to get the oil to circulate, mine goes out within about 5 seconds but bear in mind thats
with the engine spinning over, if you want to prime the oil system take the plugs out and spin it over on the starter. check batery connections are
clean and tight then check the earth from the battery to chassis, don't think there is an engine to chassis earth as the engine is rigidly
mounted in frame, so just check the engine mounting bolts are tight,
tony
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minitici
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| posted on 1/4/12 at 12:23 PM |
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Where is the fuel pump mounted in relation to the fuel tank outlet?
If the bike pump is above the fuel level then it could be struggling to lift the fuel.
Does your tank have a bottom outlet or is it a tank with a long pipe down from the top?
Get the pump as low as possible and as close to the tank as possible.
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HappyFather
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| posted on 8/4/12 at 12:12 AM |
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Hello, all!
Followed most advices today. Filled with more fuel. The pump is near the engine, the tank has a small bowl under it. The pump was provided by Aries
and the placement is the one they use.
Checked (and made better) all earths. Primed the pump sucking from one bottle with fuel to an empty bottle.
The started didn't kick in and all would turn dark because the clutch wasn't down. With the clutch down, the starter engine kicked in.
Took the leads out and disconnected the pump to turn it on the starter to move oil around.
Connected all back up and the engine started! Rough, needed throttle to stay running, but it worked!!! Tomorrow the wife will go with me to make a
small movie and I'll post a new thread with it.  
The carbs leaked and it seems to be the same issue that IainL mentioned, so I hope that tomorrow it will have resealed.
I'm VERY HAPPY!!! Thank you all that helped!
HappyFather
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ReMan
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| posted on 8/4/12 at 07:54 AM |
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Rough or not it's running, that's what matters, it can only get better.
Congratulations
On this "The started didn't kick in and all would turn dark because the clutch wasn't down. With the clutch down, the starter engine
kicked in.
"
Have you actually put the switch on the clutch? You probably want to just link it permanantly without the switch.
And I dont understand why/what goes dark if the clutch switch is not made?
www.plusnine.co.uk
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mad-butcher
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| posted on 8/4/12 at 08:09 AM |
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as said congrats, when you say leaking through carbs do you mean the inlets or elsewhere only asking because it could be the pump supplied by aries is
for an injection motor not a carbed one,
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HappyFather
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| posted on 8/4/12 at 08:55 AM |
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@ReMan, I don't know if the clutch switch is there or not... I wired in to the loom a neutral switch. But I've been offered instructions
on how to earth it, should be OK after that.
When I say "all goes dark" is like this: Move key one notch and Digidash lights up and pump starts pumping; move key to
"start" and it seems like a fuse blows, the Digidash turns off, the pump goes off, I hear a "clack" from the ignition control,
no starter engine. And have to wait some minutes to be able to power it all up again (or maybe disconnect the battery and connect again, not sure
which one solves it).
@mad-butcher, the picture bellow shows from where it leaks. I believe the pump is correct since Aries provided both the pump and the engine and Steve
has done a wonderful job so far. I bought him what I described "a car in a box" and so far it has all been perfect. I highly recommend
Aries Motorsports!
It leaks from under the carbs #3 and #4, either from what seem nipples (arrow on pic) or from behind that (more or less the different coloured area).
The fuel drips down the engine block, puddles on top of the gearbox and then drips to the floor near the prop shaft. Carbs #1 and #2 are dry.
In a few hours, when I go to the garage with the wife for some filming, we'll see if it's just o-rings and they resealed as with IainL
(hoping for that)
Once again, thank you all!
(Very)HappyFather
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ReMan
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| posted on 8/4/12 at 09:34 AM |
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Ahh, so I think you are trying to start the engine with it in gear (which is why it wont turn unless the clutch is pressed)?
The darkness thing needs looking at, it sounds like some sort of short, not good?
www.plusnine.co.uk
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HappyFather
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| posted on 8/4/12 at 11:05 PM |
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The video post is up: http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=168655
Thank you all that helped!
The fuel leak stopped, as it happened with IanL. It was probably the same issue.
The oil one still dribbles a bit, will have to tighten it more.
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