mikey p
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| posted on 8/10/12 at 11:34 AM |
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Type 9 Gearbox and 200+BHP
Guys,
How many of you are running standard short shaft type 9's and that much power in a seven style car? non HD box.
I know they are quoted at ~150BHP/Nm but that will be in a heavier car.....
Or if you have killed one!
Cheers Mike
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coozer
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| posted on 8/10/12 at 11:37 AM |
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Of course, the lighter the car the more they can withstand.
All to do with overcoming the mass of the vehicle.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 8/10/12 at 12:06 PM |
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The HD box is not that special, the only difference is that it uses a caged bearing at the front end of the lay assembly with a stub spiggot instead
of individual needle rollers on a layshaft. The syncro's, gear material, selectors, mainshaft etc are all identical.
A carefully assembled standard box using good quality parts will withstand way more than 150 bhp in a Seven weight car. Have never seen an official
Ford rating for the HD one.
Back in the early 90's I used an Escort Mk 2 box in my car in hillclimbs and sprints, the starts are known to kill boxes. The box was rated at
little over 100 bhp but mine survived with 135 - 145 bhp for 4 years before a precationary rebuild, only changed the input shaft bearing, rest
perfect.
Using the race type clutches where the drive is instant can help kill boxes, using a HD road type clutch certainly extends their life.
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Pat_T
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| posted on 8/10/12 at 12:13 PM |
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I am, with no issues. 
www.instagram.com/patroclueus
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Oddified
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| posted on 8/10/12 at 12:50 PM |
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Before changing to a tranx gear kit i had a standard type 9, i did rwyb drag racing with nitrous (well over 250bhp, but road tyres and an organic
clutch) and never broke it.
With road tyres, normal type clutch and a light weight car i think they're fairly bullet proof.
Ian
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mcerd1
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| posted on 8/10/12 at 01:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
The HD box is not that special, the only difference is that it uses a caged bearing at the front end of the lay assembly with a stub spiggot instead
of individual needle rollers on a layshaft. The syncro's, gear material, selectors, mainshaft etc are all identical.
A carefully assembled standard box using good quality parts will withstand way more than 150 bhp in a Seven weight car. Have never seen an official
Ford rating for the HD one.
^^ BGH recon 145 bhp / 145 ft.lb for a std. 4 speed one and 155 / 155 for a 2.8 V6 HD one (thats with there 1st gear mod)
in such a light car most folk seem to get away with the standard box, but the 1st gear ratio is really bad so its probably worth doing that at
least.
if you want more the HD BGH ones are rated all the way up to 280bhp/250ft.lb and they have a range of ratios to pick from and do HD syncro's for
3rd & 4th too - I managed to get one of the top spec ones s/h for my dax at about £750 off the list price, its never even been used 
and the guys at bgh have been really helpful to me despite the fact I didn't even buy it from them
[Edited on 8/10/2012 by mcerd1]
[Edited on 8/10/2012 by mcerd1]
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mikey p
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| posted on 8/10/12 at 02:21 PM |
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I'm not sure exactly what type 9 mine has at the mo, but first gear seems pretty good. Need to check it out once my current engine is out and I
can have a look.
Those above answers are the ones I wanted to see.
Would go straight cut but I don't want the car to be tricky/harsh to drive on the road.
Can you fit the HD syncro's in a standard box?
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mcerd1
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| posted on 8/10/12 at 03:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mikey p
Those above answers are the ones I wanted to see.
Would go straight cut but I don't want the car to be tricky/harsh to drive on the road.
the BGH boxes are all helical
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 8/10/12 at 04:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mikey p
Can you fit the HD syncro's in a standard box?
As I said in my original post all the syncros in type 9's boxes are identical, the V6 box did not have special syncros. Quaiffe make steel HD
syncros but they are of no use in a road car, they need lapping in every few thousand miles which is a strip and rebuild job.
BGH do a good job of providing excellent alternative ratios but the price is quite high now. If you speak to Steve Perks on 01527 894232 (be prepared
for a long phone call) he will talk you through the science behind gearboxes. He does an excellent all syncro heavy duty close ratio box that is
mostly new parts (the BGH one uses many reclaimed parts), he also does a simple 1st gear change at a budget price for 2 litre and 2.8 boxes, (the kit
was £220), I have the 2.8 variant in mine, well worth the money (and it copes quite happily with 170bhp).
Also worth noting that not all V6 boxes are HD. The early ones (both 2WD and 4WD) used the same laygear as a 2 litre box, the later ones (again both
2WD and 4WD) had the caged bearing and stub.
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djtom
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| posted on 15/10/12 at 01:16 PM |
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I've knackered a couple of Type 9's, with a turbo'd Zetec (about 250ish bhp at a guess). Mine didn't completely die, but the
syncros just got progressively more knackered until it was hard to get 3rd and 4th gears. Might have been excessive revs that did it to be honest,
I've heard that the Type 9's die quickly at over 7k rpm, and mine were getting a hammering on track with the limiter set at nearly 8k.
To be honest they were both "well used" when I got them, so they could have been near death anyway, but just as I was about to install my
third Type 9 I got offered a Sierra Cosworth T5 box at the right money so I'm using that instead now, with no problems experienced since.
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beaver34
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| posted on 15/10/12 at 04:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by djtom
I've knackered a couple of Type 9's, with a turbo'd Zetec (about 250ish bhp at a guess). Mine didn't completely die, but the
syncros just got progressively more knackered until it was hard to get 3rd and 4th gears. Might have been excessive revs that did it to be honest,
I've heard that the Type 9's die quickly at over 7k rpm, and mine were getting a hammering on track with the limiter set at nearly 8k.
To be honest they were both "well used" when I got them, so they could have been near death anyway, but just as I was about to install my
third Type 9 I got offered a Sierra Cosworth T5 box at the right money so I'm using that instead now, with no problems experienced since.
were they standard boxes?
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djtom
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| posted on 15/10/12 at 04:30 PM |
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yep, both were bog standard Sierra boxes, of unknown history, but assumed to have been well abused in their original homes before I got my hands on
them!
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beaver34
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| posted on 15/10/12 at 04:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mikey p
Guys,
How many of you are running standard short shaft type 9's and that much power in a seven style car? non HD box.
I know they are quoted at ~150BHP/Nm but that will be in a heavier car.....
Or if you have killed one!
Cheers Mike
mike im using a semi helical gearset in mine, and i presume you know my car from zsoc with the sigma turbo engine
http://www.spcomponents.co.uk/gpage3.html
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beaver34
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| posted on 15/10/12 at 04:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by djtom
yep, both were bog standard Sierra boxes, of unknown history, but assumed to have been well abused in their original homes before I got my hands on
them!
thats not bad then!
how long did they last?
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Oddified
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| posted on 15/10/12 at 04:45 PM |
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Worn syncros aren't power related though.
Ian
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djtom
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| posted on 15/10/12 at 04:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Oddified
Worn syncros aren't power related though.
Ian
Agreed, as said above it was probably more a case of more revs than the box agreed with (and possibly a distinct lack of mechanical sympathy once the
red mist descended on track).
They lasted fairly well, I must have got a good year out of each before the balky gearchange annoyed me to the point I changed the box. To be honest
the second one would probably still be in there now if I hadn't been offered the Cossie box, for normal use it was just about ok but changing
gear at high revs / high load on track was getting a bit hit and miss.
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mikey p
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| posted on 15/11/12 at 12:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
quote:
Originally posted by mikey p
Guys,
How many of you are running standard short shaft type 9's and that much power in a seven style car? non HD box.
I know they are quoted at ~150BHP/Nm but that will be in a heavier car.....
Or if you have killed one!
Cheers Mike
mike im using a semi helical gearset in mine, and i presume you know my car from zsoc with the sigma turbo engine
http://www.spcomponents.co.uk/gpage3.html
Yes I do! yeah I'm going to give it a go with the standard gear kit and if that fails I will probably convert to a mx5 gbox.
Time will tell...
Just hope I don't kill it as soon as it gets up and running haha
Mike
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Craigorypeck
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| posted on 17/11/12 at 11:33 PM |
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what about the mt75? rated at 220 lb/ft
might go this way myself
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bi22le
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| posted on 18/11/12 at 10:43 AM |
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I take it people dont use the cossie stronger boxes because of. Physical size?
Interesting to read about syncro issues on track. I was hitting over 8k rev yesterday and had red mist. At times i felt i could of been kinder on the
gear box.
I hope i have not pushed it closer to deaths door!!
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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NeilP
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| posted on 18/11/12 at 03:27 PM |
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Bog standard box from a V6 capri - 200bhp up it's wotnot - 10" wide rears, an LSD and plenty of hammering and still going strong 5 years
on...
If you pay peanuts...
Mentale, yar? Yar, mentale!
Drive it like you stole it!
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