steve_d
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| posted on 5/11/12 at 10:02 PM |
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Silvertop and ECU issues
Hi Guys I’m after some help if I may.
Trying to wire a customer’s Kitcar.
The engine is a silvertop 1.8 Zetec (March 1994)
He was supplied with a loom and ECU which turn out to be for an efi Pinto so he was seen off there.
He later bought an engine loom and ECU from a Mondeo 2.0 16v 1995-98.
Identity is:- EEC-IV (PATS 1) SME-405 TELL 95BB-12A650-KB which is the 60 pin ECU.
I think it will still work despite it being for a 2 litre.
Now to the problem(s)
1. There is no key or PATS antenna. Is there any way I can make this ECU work or do I have to go find another one?
2. There are a number of ‘Features’ of the ECU I have no use for so can I leave them disconnected or do I need to fool them in some way.
2.1. Road Speed Sensor
2.2. Starter Relay
2.3. EVAP
2.4. Rad Fan Relay
2.5. PAIR Valve
2.6. Data link Connector
2.7. Exhaust Gas Pressure Sensor
2.8. Power Steering Sensor
2.9. EGR
The first 2 are the ones I’m uncertain about. The others I’m pretty sure can just be ignored.
Any help you can give would be great.
Steve
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big_wasa
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| posted on 6/11/12 at 10:18 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve_dI think it will still work despite it being for a 2 litre.
It will run but I would expect it to run rich unless you swap the cams to a 2.0 set to make it upto more like 130ps spec.
quote:
Originally posted by steve_dNow to the problem(s)
1. There is no key or PATS antenna. Is there any way I can make this ECU work or do I have to go find another one?
No you will need the matching rdif chip found in the key from the same car the ecu came from unless you have ford reprogram new keys. Expect to pay
£200 + for that service making it a no brainer to find another ecu.
The antenna is not matche but does need to come from a simlar year.
quote:
Originally posted by steve_d
2. There are a number of ‘Features’ of the ECU I have no use for so can I leave them disconnected or do I need to fool them in some way.
2.1. Road Speed Sensor
2.2. Starter Relay
2.3. EVAP
2.4. Rad Fan Relay
2.5. PAIR Valve
2.6. Data link Connector
2.7. Exhaust Gas Pressure Sensor
2.8. Power Steering Sensor
2.9. EGR
yes it will run to mot standard with out any of the above and give full power. It will log codes for egt, evap, vss.
What do you mean by "Pair valve"
I find newer ecu's beter to work with as the obd2 diagnostic function is very handy. The ecu abave would only have the bassic Blink test
function.
Can I ask what sort of cost are you pricing this job at ? I sort of floated the idea abit back and got very little interest.
I am not an expert ! but I have wired and help wire around ~20 of these ecu's
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steve_d
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| posted on 6/11/12 at 05:19 PM |
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Hi
Thanks for the answers so far.
I suspected I was going to need another ECU.
Question now is do I just find another 60 pin as I've already modified the loom or bite the bullet and go for the 104 pin version. Are there
many advantages with the 104 pin over the 60 pin?
Anybody got a spare 1.8 ECU, pats and loom they don't want?
The full name for the PAIR valve is 'Pulsed Secondary Air Injection'. It connects to the ECU at pin 14. I believe it is part of the
airbox. If it works the same as motorbikes then it adds air into the exhaust to make sure all the fuel is burnt off. This is normally just at tickover
or light throttle which is just where we need to meet emissions limits.
The wiring is just a part of other work for the customer so I don't have a breakdown of the cost. Your problem will always be that Kitcars are
built because they are a cheap route. Professional services are costly which is galling to the kit builder but is unfortunately necessary if the
builder does not have the skill set, time, incentive etc. to do the work themselves.
Steve
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big_wasa
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| posted on 6/11/12 at 05:50 PM |
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I am a big fan of the oem ecu's and really dont see the need for an aftermarket ecu in a road car. Very few people install a bike engine and
then spend money on aftermarket ecu's.
pulsed air, Ah yes I am sure they did away with that on later models as it only operates for around 20 seconds from cold untill the engine is run
closed loop.
They did lots of little things to reduce emissions.
The first one I did.
http://youtu.be/Pxq4ks2Us_U
As to changing ecu, thats only a call you can make. I dont bother with them anymore as I like to be able to see what the ecu is doing.
http://youtu.be/8zXrUmykoAw
my current set up
http://youtu.be/BKqeCjdBM0w
I am now working on the st170 loom.
http://youtu.be/4UMyy6HXvQ4
And yes Locosbuilders are tight as f###k and the standard response is get yourself a megasquirt. 
The price I was pitching was a custom manifold with Tb, maf, injectors, ecu a custom loom with obd2 port and sensors not found in the engine block.
Price £300, takers = 0
[Edited on 6/11/12 by big_wasa]
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steve_d
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| posted on 6/11/12 at 10:14 PM |
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Looks like a fair package.
Steve
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steve_d
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| posted on 11/11/12 at 09:47 AM |
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Customer has now sourced a later (104 pin) ECU and hopefully all the add on bits.
Not having much luck finding 104 pinout info
ECU will be EEC V 2S7A-12A650-AFA SHNO
Does anyone have a list?
Many thanks
Steve
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big_wasa
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| posted on 11/11/12 at 10:30 AM |
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Well I hope he did'nt spend much because from my records thats even less use to him than the last one.
That ecu is for a 2001~2007 mk3 mondeo fitted with a 1.8L Duratec.
This ecu is full canbus so missing inputs will trigger the ecu into limp home mode. The duratec fuel and ignition map will be very differant aswell as
all the sensor values.
You will not find the pinouts on the net, You will also not be welcomed on Ford bassed forums asking how the immobilizer works or can be bypassed
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steve_d
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| posted on 11/11/12 at 11:07 AM |
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So what year can I go up too or how do I identify which ECUs are OK.
Steve
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big_wasa
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| posted on 11/11/12 at 06:15 PM |
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Not that easy.
What Tb and other sensors are you using ? If its from a silvertop the same as the engine then you will want a silvertop ecu. upto 1997.
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steve_d
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| posted on 11/11/12 at 09:05 PM |
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From the list I'm looking at there are no 104 pin ECUs before 1997.
That would mean using the 60 pin which you suggested I should avoid.
It is a 1994 Silver Top but I don't know if the Inlet came with the engine as I am not that familiar with them.
The search goes on.
Steve
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big_wasa
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| posted on 11/11/12 at 09:32 PM |
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Upto 96 is eec-iv = 60 pins.
97> is eec-v and they are 104 pin and suport obd2.
Black top zetec's came along in 1998.
Zetecs finished in the mondeo when the mk3 came out in 2001 with the duratec but the focus carried on with the zetec untill 2004 from memory.
The silvertop had an alloy Tb and maf The blactop had a plastic Tb and maf. Just keep the sensors matched to the ecu.
quote:
Originally posted by steve_d
That would mean using the 60 pin which you suggested I should avoid.
Steve
I like the obd2 function. You can run the engine on just a couple of sensors so once your loom has been chopped about and adapted how will you know if
you have a fault and what is causing the fault unless you can ask the ecu.
You can pick up a pre pats ecu that has no immobilizer you can use the loom you have and there is info on the net on how to wire it up.
[Edited on 11/11/12 by big_wasa]
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