Stuie22483
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 posted on 17/11/04 at 01:53 PM |
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Hayabusa Engine
Hello there everyone
Right what im lookin for is some help , ive just started a motor sport engineering degree in Swansea , at the Ripe old age of 21 i decided bein a
truck mechanic for the rest of my life would end with me goin insane , so how can you help , well during the second week we were here we were asked to
think of a project to compleate over the next 4 years , im a Mini fan and have seen a number of cars with motorbike engines mid mounted in the back ,
holeshot have built one with 400Bhp hayabusa engine , so i thought why not out do that and fit 2 engines , one in the front and one in the back , if i
can get the same figure out of the 2 engines then im lookin at a potential 800Bhp Mini , should be fun , anyway what im after isnt 2 engines or lots
of money or beging in any way , all i need is the external dimentions of the engines so that i can figure where they will sit in the front and back of
the car. i cant find them anywhere, bore , stroke , everything but the physical dimentions like , height , width , depth , Any help you can give me
would be massively apreciated
Many thanks Stu , (800 bhp , 4x4 , 6 speed , mini)
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 17/11/04 at 02:45 PM |
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look here http://www.dpcars.net/home/links.htm
at bottom of page
[Edited on 17/11/04 by liam.mccaffrey]
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 17/11/04 at 02:53 PM |
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i'm not sure how much you know about twin engined cars but it can be a can of worms, if you planning to do an engine for the back wheels and one
for the front, like tiger have done then there are some very difficult expensive issue to address, namely traction control, much easier it would seem
would be to couple the engines with a x-fer box like in the z-cars mini
linky
just the one
making a transfer box like the one in the link above should be no problem for a motorsports student
i am not sure but is joelp making a twin bike engined thing
[Edited on 17/11/04 by liam.mccaffrey]
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Stuie22483
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| posted on 17/11/04 at 06:34 PM |
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Thanks for the help , During the 60s John Cooper (same man who built the Mini Cooper) built a twin engined mini useing 2 A series engines(normal mini
type engine) he destroyed this in an accident but a replica has been build since , im goin to use the same principle , 2 transversly mounted engines
and chain drive (like Z cars) traction will be an issue as i want to run it on 10" wheels to keep the look right , but im goin to have to adress
this later in the date. Thanks again for your help .
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 17/11/04 at 06:57 PM |
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the downside might be that busa engines go for 3k, and you want 2 of em...........
at the other end of the scale, there was a bond bug on ebay a couple years back with a claimed 3 secs to 60 using a bike engine - it wasnt a
busa....
atb
steve
[Edited on 17/11/04 by stephen_gusterson]
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JoelP
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| posted on 17/11/04 at 07:49 PM |
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im still planning a twin engined car, but i need to finish this one first! no point giving up and starting again...
i plan on having both engines driving the back wheels, rather than one at each end. the drive trains do need linking i believe, unless you intend on
computer tricky or terrible handling.
if you must have two engines in a mini with 4wd, i would put both behind the drivers seat, and make a custom transfer box to join and split the power
to two diffs, one front and one back. since you're doing a degree, you should have access to lathes and big drills etc, which should be all you
really need, along with a source of badass bearings and gears.
liam, your second link is ace!
[Edited on 17/11/04 by JoelP]
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phelpsa
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| posted on 17/11/04 at 08:53 PM |
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I saw a VW Golf with on 2.8 v6 driving the front wheels, and one driving the rear wheels, completely separate.
Adam
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Simon
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| posted on 17/11/04 at 09:07 PM |
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"the downside might be that busa engines go for 3k, and you want 2 of em........... "
And then there's the two turbos. Another 5 - 10 grand depending on spec!
ATB
Simon
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Stuie22483
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| posted on 18/11/04 at 10:39 AM |
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Yeah ive seen Dubsports Golf too , 2 2.8 V6 turboes , working independantly front and rear , the trick is going to be the gear change mechanism ,
since im planning a paddle shift then knowing the bikes are up down gear change with no left to right (on the shifter at least, i know there is in the
box) that shouldn be a problem ,
It does get more and more expensive everyday , tho my home town is liverpool and im not a fan of bike riders so who knows how "cheaply" i
can get 2 compleate hayabusas for
[Edited on 18/11/04 by Stuie22483]
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James
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| posted on 18/11/04 at 03:40 PM |
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I've got a Golf magazine with a review of that Dubsport Golf from back in the days when I was considering modding my Mk2.
I never did understand how they managed to do the two engines completely separately!
I did like the way they ran the hot water from the 'primary' engine through the secondary so that it would be warm ready for when it was
started up at some lights ready for some drag action! 
James
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Stuie22483
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| posted on 18/11/04 at 05:17 PM |
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Yeah ive seen dubsport and there MK3 and 2 , the just ran then engines independantly , linking them only via gear linkage , throttle cables and clutch
pedals ,(cant remember if they are hydraulic or cable) hopefully when the mini is done it will EAT superbikes for fun and destroy anything else in its
way , u cant beat going fast when youve created it yourself .
[Edited on 18/11/04 by Stuie22483]
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 18/11/04 at 06:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
ii plan on having both engines driving the back wheels, rather than one at each end. the drive trains do need linking i believe, unless you intend on
computer tricky or terrible handling.
I don't see why this would eb the case as long as you have the throttles synchronised properly. In fact you could change the ratio of
front/rear throttle to alter power split.
A maniac that I used to work with did a few engine conversions, the last one being a Metro Turbo that had a second Metro Turbo engine and box mounted
in the boot space, Twini-mini style. Gear selection was ingenious, he used an arrangement of windscreen wiper motors and limit switches so that the
rear box mimicked the actions of the remote. Normaly this requires a fairly nasty linkage.
His previous vehicle was an OR50 (Suzuki moped with "custom" styling and a frame that looked like it was made from drinking straws), with
an (aircooled) RD250 twin shoehorned in. First gear unusable, second gear dangerous but useable if you leaned forward and didn't snap the
throttle open too quickly. Predictably it was written off after he threw it down in the path of an oncomming Merc...
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JoelP
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| posted on 18/11/04 at 08:52 PM |
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well, i wont pretend to have built one, but as you say, its all down to balancing the throttles. As far as i can see, this isnt a simple mechanical
link. the rear will have more grip in straight line acceleration, hence more throttle will be prefereable. if they are set to the same throttle
settings, the front wheels will start spinning long before the rear wheels.
but, in mid corner, the throttle balance would want to be different. decking either throttle too much would result in under or over steer.
it might be possible to set up a compromise, but i cant imagine it being perfect or easy.
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david walker
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| posted on 18/11/04 at 09:50 PM |
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Before you build a twin engined mini you ought to go to Z-Cars and bum a ride in a single engined mini for a start. If Chris takes you out he will
terrify you- and that will probably be with his R1 engined demonstrator.
Z-Cars build lots of twin engined cars mainly for Autograss. They are building a twin engined, Hyabusa turbo, 4wd roadgoing Ultima at the moment. It
will make 1000 bhp but will cost £125,000. Joining two serious engines for a roadgoing vehicle is (if you want to do it safely) more complicated that
setting the throttles up!
By the way, they refuse point blank to build a twin engined mini for the road, they just are not safe, and wouldn't be any quicker than a single
engined car anyway.
As I say, try a single engined mini, or se7en for a start and find out what 150hp in a 500kg car feels like!
Dave Walker, Race Engine Services - 07957 454659 or 01636 671277
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Simon
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| posted on 18/11/04 at 11:05 PM |
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"....and im not a fan of bike riders so who knows how "cheaply" i can get 2 complete hayabusas for"
Careful matey. Some of us ride Hayabusa's
ATB
Simon
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Stuie22483
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| posted on 19/11/04 at 03:38 PM |
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ooooopse my bad, as for just having one engine , its been done before , i want to see if i can build somethin a little bit silly-er , than that . as
for front and rear engines i see the point about on acceleration the front wheels spinning , ill have to research dubsports more closely , Z cars
minis are awesome id love one to use everyday but im a poor student (its hard goin from a £350 a week + overtime job to earning nothing)
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James
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| posted on 19/11/04 at 10:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Stuie22483
holeshot have built one with 400Bhp hayabusa engine , so i thought why not out do that and fit 2 engines ,
Aren't they £8K a piece? That might be one reason why not!
Fun idea though!
Cheers,
James
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JoelP
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| posted on 19/11/04 at 10:35 PM |
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its a tempting idea, to build an extreme car. i always find myself tempted anyway. theres a lot to be said for 'proof of concept' runs
though, to test the water. hence, my first car, to see if i can build anything, and my planned second, to see if i can link two engines. Must confess
to having considered a twin busa in the past... madness, really.
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Stuie22483
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| posted on 20/11/04 at 12:20 AM |
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Yeah luckily this year is design based , it seems to have captured the imagination fairly well so people are interested in the latter stages of the
project over the next years. oh i forgot to mention the Semi spaceframe covered with the bare minimum of metal mini panels , front end , bonnet ,boot
and doors are goiing to be carbon fibre ,
the responce from this site tho and how friendly everyone has been has got me thinking about my weekend toy , weve got a Locost thats getting a
rebuild at the moment that has raced in the past ,so one of my own would be nice , still thinking bike power for it though
[Edited on 20/11/04 by Stuie22483]
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