Ugg10
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| posted on 24/10/14 at 02:29 PM |
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Sigma Zetec SE cooling again
I am currently finalising various bit on my 1.7 Puma engine / Anglia build before I give the credit car4d another good bashiong.
One area that I am currently trying to get my (small) brain around is the cooling system.
What I have is -
Engine - Black Thermostat outlets (small and large, side of block), Rear Exhaust head outlet (highest point), rear of head Shawspeed low level
manifold (large outlet and tapped m12 hole)
VW Polo Radiator - large upper and lower ports and top small bleed point
Header tank - will be ally made to measure
Temp Senders - m12 for Omex ECU, 1/8 NPT or 5/8 UNF for ETB digidash
No heater
Looking through the archives I have the drawn up two alternatives (below) -
Version 1 - follows Madinventions etc. scheme and is generally seen as being a tried and tested option
Version 2 - is more like the system used by the Scandinavian Sigma Race Escort on Turbosport which is simpler but has no cold start circuit I think
Shawspeed manifold
On engine
So, which version should I use and are there any tweaks I need to make, things to look out for or things not to do before I go an buy a load of
stuff.
Thanks in advance for your comments.
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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Jenko
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| posted on 24/10/14 at 05:07 PM |
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I have used 'version 1' and seems to work fine...in fact Version 2 is a no no as you do need the heater pipes connected to ensure the
correct flow through the engine (I think). The temp sender for the temp gauge again is where I have mine, but I have used the thread in the head for
the ecu sender. If possible, use the ecu for the fan switch you can then easily change the activation temp via the software.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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Madinventions
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| posted on 24/10/14 at 05:19 PM |
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Yep, Version 1 looks to be the same as mine. As mentioned, you will need to ensure that you have flow in the bypass circuit before the thermostat
opens, so version 2 would inevitably lead to problems I fear.
On my setup, junction '10' at the header is the highest point, and the T at junction 17 is the lowest. You may want to fit a bleed valve
at point 9 on top of the rad if your pipes go lower than this, but I just loosen the pipe off at the top of the rad and burp the system here when
refilling so it may not be necessary.
Mojo build diary: http://www.madinventions.co.uk
Solo music project: Syrrenfor http://www.reverbnation.com/syrrenfor
View my band website:
http://www.shadowlight.org.uk
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk/
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Ugg10
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| posted on 24/10/14 at 06:34 PM |
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Many thanks guys, much appreciated.
Should have said the numbers are the pipe diameters at those points as I am trying to see what pipe sizes I need. Biggest issue is the heater / cold
start circuit that will start at 24mm at the block and end with something like 15mm at the manifold via two sender adapters.
Will look into what I need for version 1.
[Edited on 24/10/14 by Ugg10]
[Edited on 24/10/14 by Ugg10]
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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Ugg10
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| posted on 24/10/14 at 06:52 PM |
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Just a thought, any reason why I cant do the following for the cold circuit -
Add a Y or T piece in next to the rear manifold large inlet to connect the Rad bottom and small thermostat pipes to. In the manifold, as you can see
there is no divider between the circuits so this would effectively do the same but just a few cm earlier. This would leave the m12 port for the ecu
sender and I can put the dash sender in the 24mm pipe.
Hope this makes sense, I will try and add a diagram later.
Cheers.
edit - pic added -
[Edited on 24/10/14 by Ugg10]
[Edited on 24/10/14 by Ugg10]
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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Jenko
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| posted on 24/10/14 at 07:41 PM |
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I wouldn't worry too much about the pipe diameters, but you may have an issue, finding an adaptor small enought to fit in the heating pips
diameter. IIRC its around 12mm ID.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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Ugg10
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| posted on 24/10/14 at 08:04 PM |
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Thanks Jenko.
As for pipe diameters, version 1a I think gets round this as I can use a silicon t piece with 32/35mm main tube and 25mm t pipe -
New ASH Silicone Hose T-Pieces Rubber/Coolant/Radiator/Pipe Silicon this will match the 24mm pipe from the plastic
thermostat housing outlet on the block.
My only worry is the flow from the t piece returning to the Rad rather than going into the manifold but I sm not sure which way the water flows. I
have read it seems to be the opposite to the zetec e engine, will gave to do a search to find out.
There are also 25mm push on sender adaptors for 1/8" ntp threads so that covers the dash sender Revotec Aluminium Hose
Adaptor-Provides A Take Off For Water Temperature Sender
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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jelly head
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| posted on 25/10/14 at 07:52 AM |
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I've recently picked up one of these engines so i'm quite interested in this thread.
I'm intending having a heater on my install so im reading this right then that the heater feed would come out of '24' on the block
and would run via the heater matrix to the shawspeed manifold at the rear?
A bit off topic but Ugg10 what are the throttle bodies you've got fitted?
Cheers
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Ugg10
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| posted on 25/10/14 at 09:29 AM |
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Welcome to the puma zetec club!
You are correct, the heater goes in the pipe between the small outlet on the thermostat housing on the block and the manifold on the rear of the head.
I am using the shawspeed manifold as I needed the extra 100mm to move the engine back in the Anglia compared to the oem one that has the coil pack
mounted on top of it. In some sevens this is ok to use due to the height or shape of the scuttle.
The tbs are from a triumph triple bike, RS 955i c2001, you obviously have to buy two sets to make up a 4. Both sets cost me £75 delivered a couple of
years ago (was going to use them on a v6), not sure of the current price. My blog has pictures on it with dimension if you need them. Trumpets are
from larkspeed, via eBay, and are 46mm hose ends for brake ducts, pretty thin but should do the job.
Hope that helps, what are you putting it in by the way?
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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jelly head
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| posted on 26/10/14 at 08:56 AM |
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Thanks Ugg10 for the info thats really helpful.
I'll take a look at your blog, that throttle body set up looks really tidy.
It's going into a frogeye sprite replica.
Cheers!
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Ugg10
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| posted on 26/10/14 at 11:34 AM |
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Is it a tifosi rana?
Is it spaceframe or based on a midget/herald/spitfire chassis?
There is a long write up obout fitting this engine is a spitfire on the Web, also the "sigma racing escort" thread on turbosports is worth
ploughing through.
Sounds like a nice project and the engine should suit it well.
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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beaver34
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| posted on 27/10/14 at 06:49 AM |
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i ran system 2 caused me issues unless thermostat drilled
no run system 1, the pipe from top of head to thermostat needs to be restricted the oem pipe has a 5mm restrictor in there other wise your hot water
goes to the thermostat and not round the rad the restrictor makes it harder to flow this way
thats what i think anyway
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jelly head
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| posted on 27/10/14 at 08:17 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ugg10
Is it a tifosi rana?
Is it spaceframe or based on a midget/herald/spitfire chassis?
There is a long write up obout fitting this engine is a spitfire on the Web, also the "sigma racing escort" thread on turbosports is worth
ploughing through.
Sounds like a nice project and the engine should suit it well.
I dropped on one of these a while back:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=176084
It had been sat in a fellas back garden for years and i've been collecting suitable parts ever since.
I'm planning to get the engine up an running over the winter before i start on the build.
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Ugg10
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| posted on 27/10/14 at 09:28 AM |
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Beaver34 - many thanks for the info, forgot I have a box of bits I took off the engine will look in there for the OEM pipe.
Jellyhead - look a pretty strong chassis and should go very well under the classis frogeye body. Will be a very nice car when finished. Old english
white with black trim/wheels would be my preference (have a look at the press shots of the MK HSR, similar car, similar feel).
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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Ugg10
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| posted on 18/3/15 at 09:15 PM |
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Digging up an old thread as I am soon to start the plumbing work on the engine (also brakes and fuel lines).
So, in the interim period I have decided to use a heater and have got a Mini 2 speed one that can be made to fit the Anglia quite well inside the car.
The radiator is the much loved early Polo version (small) and will have a 9" fan in front of it.
Here is my final (hopefully) my final layout, number are approx pipe ID sizes in mm and I have added flow direction lines and an indication of
hot/cold pipes.
A couple of final questions for the forum before I start ordering pipework/connectors/adapters etc.:
1) Any issues with T'ing the heater feed just before the rear large manifold exit ?
2) Any views as to where the dash temp sender can go - I have shown it down by the bottom of the rad but I guess it could go anywhere in that pipe
(top may be more convenient) ?
3) Any suggestions as to what to do with the small top hose connector on the radiator - seal it off or add a tap for bleeding ?
Thanks in advance for any comments, all will be much appreciated.
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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monkeyarms
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| posted on 19/3/15 at 07:53 AM |
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A couple of thoughts -
The heater has seperate inlet and outlet on the engine, one being on the exhaust side under the coil pack, I would stick to using that as it allows
the heater to warm up before the thermostat opens. That is the Ford set up.
I would try to get the dash temp sender closer to the engine to give a more accurate reading. In reality the cooling effect of the piping from engine
to the rad will be minimal but just my preference.
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Ugg10
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| posted on 19/3/15 at 10:19 AM |
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Many thanks Monkeyarms.
My big problem is that I have had to remove the coil mount/water manifold off the back of the engine to get bulkhead clearance and have replaced it
with a new part that only has 2 outlets - one large for the rad connection and once threaded for a sender (or I guess a screw in/push on connector,
but 12mm is the largest I can get for an M12x1.5 threaded hole). Therefore, going for the T piece to connect the heater is really my only option I
think.
On the sender front I can move this up to the engine end no problems, thanks for that suggestion.
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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monkeyarms
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 posted on 19/3/15 at 12:38 PM |
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Ah i see now, I didnt know about the new outlet. It should be ok, after all a heater is just another type of radiator 
I really like your engine build approach with regards the TB's off a Triumph, I'm interested to see what the dyno results are when you get
it mapped.
Are you expecting around 150-160hp ?
I have a standard 1.7 + ecu so this is an interesting upgrade path.
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Ugg10
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| posted on 19/3/15 at 01:30 PM |
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Monkeyarms -
The TBs were a lucky find, I had bought two sets when I was messing around with a MX6, got rid of that when I bought the Anglia and happen to find
that they were an almost perfect match in both port size shape and spacing. I see them as a poor mans version of the jenvey direct to head ones.
My reference point for the engine is Jenko's build on here - he has GSXR TB's (42mm as well I think) and his made 155hp using an omex 600
with the off/on/off VCT method. His build site has some interesting graphs with and without VCT to define the cross over points, worth a read. So
anything over 150Hp would be great. My Omex710 has the capability of fully controlling the VCT but will need to see how easy/expensive that will be to
map.
Also not sure what effect my exhaust will have on power/torque as I will be using a modified Escort Pinto 4-2-1 exhaust - need to measure it up but
primaries are 1.75", not sure about secondaries and rear section is 2.25".
Thanks for the comments again.
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1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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