r1_pete
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| posted on 7/11/14 at 12:04 PM |
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Waterless coolant
I'm currently doing a few mods on my E Type:
Ported and flowed big valve head, the bottom end is already lightened and balanced.
Alloy high efficiency radiator.
EFI.
Obviously the car is going to run hotter as its creating more bhp (hopefully)
I'm hoping the alloy rad will keep things cool along with a few bypass hose mods,
But,
Has anyone any experience of waterless coolant? I'm thinking for another £60 - £70 it might be good insurance against internal corrosion, and
circulate heat a bit better, just wanting to hear experiences etc...
Cheers.
Pete.
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adithorp
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| posted on 7/11/14 at 12:20 PM |
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I looked into it and in the end decided against it.
Pros...
Less corosion
Higher boiling point so needs less pressure.
Less thermal expansion so doesn't create as much pressure in the system.
Cons...
Doesn't transfer heat as well.
Costs more, especially as you have to use the flush stuff first to eliminate the water.
Can't be mixed with water, so problems if you have coolant loss while out.
In the end it was the last "con" that swung it. I would be buggered if a hose split while touring in the middle of nowhere.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 7/11/14 at 01:23 PM |
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or just have a spare bottle in the boot
Saying that I've only once had a hose burst and that car was 25 years old and overheating, doubt there is any risk of it happening with good
hoses
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40inches
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| posted on 7/11/14 at 02:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
or just have a spare bottle in the boot
Saying that I've only once had a hose burst and that car was 25 years old and overheating, doubt there is any risk of it happening with good
hoses
Plus the waterless coolant doesn't pressurise the system, so no stress on the hoses etc., you can remove the rad cap with the engine at
operating temperature. So it says on the web site.
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Dopdog
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| posted on 7/11/14 at 04:22 PM |
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I found it fantastic in my car, in fact on the rolling road it overcooled the engine and we had to keep moving the fan away, also you can add water to
it in an emergency up to a certain percentage
It will definitely be going into my new car
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K13JOB
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| posted on 7/11/14 at 06:43 PM |
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The waterless coolant allows the system to run at higher temps without boiling, any water in the system will boil, not a scenario I would want.
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40inches
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| posted on 7/11/14 at 06:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by K13JOB
The waterless coolant allows the system to run at higher temps without boiling, any water in the system will boil, not a scenario I would want.
I believe that if you run the engine without the pressure cap, any water will boil? away.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 7/11/14 at 06:57 PM |
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With Evans waterless you have to purge all water out, it's also very expensive.
I just use OAT, water and water wetter 50/45/5 which works well enough.
[Edited on 7/11/14 by mark chandler]
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K13JOB
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| posted on 7/11/14 at 08:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by K13JOB
The waterless coolant allows the system to run at higher temps without boiling, any water in the system will boil, not a scenario I would want.
I believe that if you run the engine without the pressure cap, any water will boil? away.
Sorry, not clear, I was worrying about any water getting into the waterless coolant!
Personally, I always keep the pressure cap on my water system.
If you want to run anything special the "water wetter" system sounds good.
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snapper
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| posted on 8/11/14 at 07:23 AM |
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The fact the engine can run hotter worries me
Metal expands the hotter it gets and something as valuable as an old Jag engine should be run at temps it was designed for
[Edited on 8/11/14 by snapper]
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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Dopdog
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| posted on 8/11/14 at 12:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper
The fact the engine can run hotter worries me
Metal expands the hotter it gets and something as valuable as an old Jag engine should be run at temps it was designed for
[Edited on 8/11/14 by snapper]
the engine does not run hotter the evans just has a different boiling point to water. I think a bit information would go a long way so here you go.
http://www.evanscoolants.co.uk
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 8/11/14 at 12:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dopdog
quote:
Originally posted by snapper
The fact the engine can run hotter worries me
Metal expands the hotter it gets and something as valuable as an old Jag engine should be run at temps it was designed for
[Edited on 8/11/14 by snapper]
the engine does not run hotter the evans just has a different boiling point to water. I think a bit information would go a long way so here you go.
http://www.evanscoolants.co.uk
quote:
Evans Waterless Coolant
The operating temperature of the engine and coolant may increase slightly, by approximately 3-7 degrees.
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Dopdog
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| posted on 8/11/14 at 03:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by Dopdog
quote:
Originally posted by snapper
The fact the engine can run hotter worries me
Metal expands the hotter it gets and something as valuable as an old Jag engine should be run at temps it was designed for
[Edited on 8/11/14 by snapper]
the engine does not run hotter the evans just has a different boiling point to water. I think a bit information would go a long way so here you go.
http://www.evanscoolants.co.uk
quote:
Evans Waterless Coolant
The operating temperature of the engine and coolant may increase slightly, by approximately 3-7 degrees.
I love it when people cut and paste it misses all the important information! the quote from evans reads
"A.The operating temperature of the engine and coolant may increase slightly, by approximately 3-7 degrees. However the temperature inside the
engine will be consistent and steam vapour will not be produced. i.e engines often run cooler with Evans Waterless Coolants."
You seemed to have missed the last and most important part of the subject matter off the end.
[Edited on 8/11/14 by Dopdog]
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CosKev3
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| posted on 8/11/14 at 07:32 PM |
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Was discussed on another forum recently,and a couple of people that know what they are talking about explained it quite clearly 
http://contrails.free.fr/temp/NPG+_MSDS.PDF
Assuming ethylene or propylene or similar glycol based coolant with no water (quoted 180deg boiling point and water miscibility reinforce this
assumption), we are talking heat capacity of Evans coolant being around 50% that of water, or 30% less than 50/50 water/G12 mix. I.e Evans coolant has
to run 30% faster through radiator and engine to achieve the same cooling. Not a problem usually in normal conditions, but I would not use it in a car
driven spiritedly (OP said vRS) or for towing, as once the thermostat is fully open you may see temps well in excess of what you are used to.
Evans ccolant is over 70% ethylene glycol plus additives, just like normal coolant, e.g. G12, or even the old blue one. The less water there is in
the mix, the higher running temp it will achieve, and once thermostat is maxed out, it will run hotter than 50/50 mix.
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r1_pete
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| posted on 12/11/14 at 09:27 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Was discussed on another forum recently,and a couple of people that know what they are talking about explained it quite clearly
http://contrails.free.fr/temp/NPG+_MSDS.PDF
Assuming ethylene or propylene or similar glycol based coolant with no water (quoted 180deg boiling point and water miscibility reinforce this
assumption), we are talking heat capacity of Evans coolant being around 50% that of water, or 30% less than 50/50 water/G12 mix. I.e Evans coolant has
to run 30% faster through radiator and engine to achieve the same cooling. Not a problem usually in normal conditions, but I would not use it in a car
driven spiritedly (OP said vRS) or for towing, as once the thermostat is fully open you may see temps well in excess of what you are used to.
Evans ccolant is over 70% ethylene glycol plus additives, just like normal coolant, e.g. G12, or even the old blue one. The less water there is in
the mix, the higher running temp it will achieve, and once thermostat is maxed out, it will run hotter than 50/50 mix.
I was at Radtec yesterday getting a small mod done on the radiator, they explained it basically the same way, and advised against the waterless
coolant, favouring Millers Blue antifreeze, in their experience it caused less furring, and prevented corrosion the best.
In my case it would cost me £250 for the flush and coolant, not 70 as I first estimate, so this is the 251st good reason not to use it.
Thanks for the replies and advice everyone...
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mcerd1
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| posted on 12/11/14 at 12:28 PM |
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this stuff could be worth looking at as an alternative to millers blue:
https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/featbene/CoolGardII.pdf
its pretty decent stuff by all accounts, safe for alloy, copper, solder, iron/steel and easy to get if you've got a dealer nearby
-
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SPYDER
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| posted on 12/11/14 at 12:44 PM |
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From the Peter Burgess "Automotive Performance Engineering" website...
Waterless Coolant . In our opinion using coolants other than water with antifreeze/corrosion inhibitor addition as recommended in the original
workshop manual can allow the engine to run too hot and cause problems such as sticking valves and piston damage. We offer no warranty on our engines
and heads if waterless coolants are used. Water is the best liquid for transferring heat.
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Dopdog
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| posted on 12/11/14 at 01:19 PM |
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WOW every day is a school day
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britishtrident
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| posted on 12/11/14 at 02:02 PM |
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I checked it out about a year ago and from the specs I worked out it is probably neat polypropylene glycol which is available much more cheaply form
solar heating specialists. The reason you shouldn't dilute with water is probably because of the lack of corrosion inhibitors.
However back in 1939 Rolls-Royce were using 100 percent glycol for cooling the first operational Merlin engines they were having cooling problems and
changed to 70/30. Glycol/water this had the added advantage of reducing the risk of a glycol fire.
I can't see any advantage over using standard 50 percent solution of decent quality longlife OAT coolant.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 12/11/14 at 04:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dopdog
"A.The operating temperature of the engine and coolant may increase slightly, by approximately 3-7 degrees. However the temperature inside the
engine will be consistent and steam vapour will not be produced. i.e engines often run cooler with Evans Waterless Coolants."
You seemed to have missed the last and most important part of the subject matter off the end.
[Edited on 8/11/14 by Dopdog]
The most important part is the increased temperature; the fact that it may remain stable at this increased temperature is great, but it's still
not ideal.
FWIW my friend was running this in his rally car when it melted a piston. To be fair, he was running it because a previous strip down had shown some
signs of overheating on the same cylinder. Suffice to say he will be running standard coolant from now on.
It does result in significantly lower pressure in the cooling system however (though not zero, the coolant expands as it gets hot just like any other
liquid).
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