Mikef
|
| posted on 19/1/17 at 12:43 PM |
|
|
Zetec or Duratec 2l options
Hi All.
I have a project coming up that will allow me to use one of the above.I have never worked on these engines before. So any comments or suggestions
gratefully received. I am looking for about 200 / 225 hp, but with reliability. Happy to do the complete build , and would be looking at ITBs, and
probably use an Emerald ECU as I know them well. Would like to get a feel if one stands out better or is easier to rebuild from the point of view
parts and reliability etc. Cost whilst not the main consideration will come into the equation.
|
|
|
|
|
cliftyhanger
|
| posted on 19/1/17 at 01:40 PM |
|
|
Probably easier to get that power from a duratec (unless you use forced induction on a zetec) but a bit more complicated than a zetec to fit. Not a
biggy, assuming you have a viable budget.
Both engines pretty reliable.
|
|
|
johnemms
|
| posted on 19/1/17 at 01:43 PM |
|
|
New crate 2.0 Zetec - ARP Bolts - head off - ported big valves - done?
Own chassis & Build - First time pass!!
"7's" aren't really "cars", they are 'experiences"
|
|
|
Hornet
|
| posted on 19/1/17 at 01:48 PM |
|
|
Worth pointing out that the Duratec exhaust is on the left side when looking at the engine from the front. The zetec on the right. You could also
consider the st170 duratec that is really a zetec as I believe they start of in basic form at 170 bhp. I'm a duratec user and like the
reputation they have so I am biased. 220 bhp with exactly the set up you are looking at and didn't cost too much. Can even give you an emerald
map to play with.
|
|
|
Mikef
|
| posted on 19/1/17 at 01:53 PM |
|
|
Cliftyhanger. Thanks for the reply. Could you elaborate a bit re the more difficult fitting ? Have reasonable workshop facils, and happy to fabricate
engine mounts etc. Might be leaning towards the Duratec.
|
|
|
Ugg10
|
| posted on 19/1/17 at 01:59 PM |
|
|
Duratec will need a bespoke bell housing as it is different to the old standard ford bolt pattern that the Zetec has (readily available),
alternatively you can use the MX5 mk3 box but this is canted over at an angle or get an adaptor plate for the RX8.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
|
|
|
cliftyhanger
|
| posted on 19/1/17 at 03:25 PM |
|
|
That is it.The zetec bolts staraight up to a T9 box, but duratec won't.
Likewise parts for teh zetec are more readily available (and therefore probably cheaper)
The ST170 engine is actually around 140 or so bhp in std form, BUT on ITB's and decent management, exhaust etc will be around 200bhp, plus a
very decent torque curve if you keep the VVT. It is basically a zetec that has been factory blueprinted, with vvt added. (although it is labelled
duratec, it is all Zetec parts)
Duratec can make 300bhp NA......depending on budget. ANd I understand is being developed for the rallycross championships as YB engines are getting a
bit thin on the ground. Expect 800bhp at a guess. price tag to match!
|
|
|
Hornet
|
| posted on 19/1/17 at 04:39 PM |
|
|
The st 170 is 170ps bud..... google it
|
|
|
hughpinder
|
| posted on 19/1/17 at 05:02 PM |
|
|
You could have a look at these guides on the burton power site:
http://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guides/tuning-guide-pages/ford-duratec-he-tuning-guide.html
there is also one for the zetec E there
The duratec engine is 18kg lighter.
I have read somewhere that the duratec can take more power on standard internals than the zetec say good for 200-220 bhf, against 180-200 or in that
reason.
Regards
Hugh
|
|
|
cliftyhanger
|
| posted on 19/1/17 at 05:52 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Hornet
The st 170 is 170ps bud..... google it
I was going on rolling road figures. Thought it was widely accepted the "factory spec" was a little ambitious...
|
|
|
big-vee-twin
|
| posted on 19/1/17 at 06:03 PM |
|
|
The ST 170 has VVT.
Duratec ST150 is 150 out the box, add Jenveys 200hp, no problems straight forward install.
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
|
|
|
mcerd1
|
| posted on 20/1/17 at 01:18 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
Duratec ST150 is 150 out the box...
~150PS rather than the 145PS for the bog std. mondeo/focus spec 2.0 duratec (so only a small gain)
but I believe the head is very slightly better and it doesn't have EGR or the dual mass flywheel, so a little less work to fit 
-
|
|
|
mcerd1
|
| posted on 20/1/17 at 04:04 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by johnemms
New crate 2.0 Zetec - ARP Bolts - head off - ported big valves - done?
You missed step one with these new crate engines - fit a new cam belt 
all these 'new' zetecs are now over 10 years old, so the cam belts are due even if they have never turned ! (some folk found out the hard
way  )
[Edited on 20/1/2017 by mcerd1]
-
|
|
|
Mikef
|
| posted on 20/1/17 at 05:20 PM |
|
|
Good point on the cam belt. Thanks every one lots to think about here,was leaning towards Duratec but still undecided. At least I have a lot of info
to consider now.
|
|
|
se7ensport
|
| posted on 20/1/17 at 08:01 PM |
|
|
There are plenty of Duratec parts suppliers out there, but it all adds up, I converted a few years ago and listed all parts within the following
thread: http://locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=156937
If you go the Duratec route make sure it's got the high flow head, comes on Focus (I used a C-Max) and ST150: RF3S4G and RF6S4E
Loads of other relevant info here: http://sbdev.co.uk/FAQs/Duratec.html
|
|
|
sdh2903
|
| posted on 20/1/17 at 08:47 PM |
|
|
Have you considered an ecoboost?
Basically a direct injection turbo duratec.
Engines can be had for 1500. A ready mapped ford racing ecu along with harness fuse box and fly by wire pedal is 1500. Bolts straight up to mk3 mx5
box. You would also need the mx5 flywheel and starter and uprated clutch.
I did all the sums a while ago before coming to the conclusion that to get a reliable 200bhp + the ecoboost was the best value. Also taking into
consideration the engine itself is a lot newer. By the time you've bought a duratec, ecu, throttle bodies, cams, bell housing, sump and
gearbox that will take the abuse it all adds up.
The ford ecu kit gives 252bhp and over 300lbs of torque out if the box. I've just got mine nearly finished and started it for the first time
last week. First turn.
https://youtu.be/NCbvK3GKcIo
|
|
|
kerob_labs
|
| posted on 21/2/17 at 08:52 AM |
|
|
@sdh2903
I'm building a ST170 mid-engine, it shall give theoretical 170 BHP (I must be near there as I'm using special exhaust and induction
filter).
But looking for the future I do consider replacing by a 2L ecoboost, i heard it give 300BHP with those handheld remappers, so it's very
tempting!
The problem is that my kit (engine bay, drive shafts, wheel hubs) is zetec, and I wonder how could I possibly bolt an ecoboost onto my getrag gearbox.
Or maybe use MTX75 gearbox that uses zetec driveshafts and I can bolt duratec bolting pattern (same as ecoboost)? is that possible?
|
|
|
coozer
|
| posted on 21/2/17 at 03:56 PM |
|
|
Turbo = more than 200bhp.....
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
|
|
|
snapper
|
| posted on 21/2/17 at 07:44 PM |
|
|
I read that the ST170 was 164 bhp in factory spec so 140 @ wheels seems right
The duratec can go to 220 with just a set of cams and they can be fitted with the head on but you need to pressurise the cylinders to keep the valves
from dropping
I also heard that the rods are marginal at 220 but also understand that there have not been any reported failures.
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
|
|
|
matt5964
|
| posted on 21/2/17 at 09:19 PM |
|
|
I have a crate Zetec with 221bhp and 179ftlb on Dave from emeralds rollers
jenvey throttle bodys with 90mm trumpets and a 115mm Pipercross dome filter
bosch 320cc EV16 injectors
Ported and flowed head
Custom Grind cams to match head
comp springs
balanced crank
ARP bottom and Top bolts
Lightened flywheel
Emerald K6 Ecu
RT Dash 2
Simpson custom Exhaust 4-2-1 with a 8" can
Very reliable and usable on road and track
Luego velocity XT 2.0ltr 221.3bhp 178.9lbft
|
|
|
Hornet
|
| posted on 24/2/17 at 12:28 PM |
|
|
Hi sorry to contradict but you definitely don't need to pressurise the cylinders as the valves cannot drop when only changing cams. With regards
failures...... I'm one of the unlucky ones. 220bhp and number 4 cylinder con rod sheared in half and destroyed the block. I have since reduced
revs on my new engine to 6500 as a safety feature as I can't afford another Big Bang. Car is definitely fast enough with this limit I can
assure you.
|
|
|
wylliezx9r
|
| posted on 24/2/17 at 12:48 PM |
|
|
S2000 F20C.......Just putting it out there..... 230 bhp straight out of the tin and no worries about matching gearboxes and clutches. I used one in my
last build awesome engine and gearbox and super reliable. Only issues are; it's quite tall and the gearbox bell housing is pretty wide.
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
|
|
|
