phoenix70
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| posted on 26/4/07 at 02:13 AM |
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Pinto Idle Problem .... Again
Hi All,
I've got a problem with the Pinto in my MK, its a 2L using the standard injection system and fast road cam (not sure which) The problem is, it
just won't idle If I start it from cold, the engine is fine for a minute or so, and then the revs, slowly drop until it stalls. When hot, the
car just won't sit at idle, the same thing happens, the revs slowly drop until the engine stalls. My initial thought was it could be the idle
control valve, I have removed this and cleaned it out, but it doesn't seem to have resolved the problem. I've also put new set of plugs
and leads (but that was mainly because I broke one of the HT leads).
Any suggestion welcome (except the pull it out and fit a bike engine ones, thanks)
[Edited on 26/4/07 by phoenix70]
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macdave69
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| posted on 26/4/07 at 04:24 AM |
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Not had much dealings with the injected pinto and it's been 15 years since I rallied one but there are a number of things to check. My memory is
a little faded from JD abuse.
I found hi lift cams absolute biatches to keep any kind of tickover on, we used to run a high tickover to prevent stalling.
Firstly, has it always done it? Assuming it has
Have you had the head skimmed? If so have you fitted a vernier pulley? because the timing marks wouldn't work the same. Have you checked the cam
with a degree disc to check it is in the right position. Did you tippex a mark on the belt to check if it has jumped a groove, (had that happen once
to me and it was a sod to find.
With the engine running squirt plus gas in the general area of the intakes (but not into the filter) if the engine speeds up, there's an air
leak, into the inlet side.
Check the fuel pressure to see if the pump is errr pumping and that the fuel filter hasn't collapsed. try squirting plus gas into the intake
(not galons though) if it picks up, try richening the mixture, there should be a tamperproof plug, tamper with it, adjust back to fully closed, then
go 1/2 a turn a time until the engine picks up past a healthy tickover, then back it off half a turn
Delving further inside, how are the valve clearances? If they are tight, there coulde be problems, I always ran mine on the loose side, it seemed to
rev out better,
On the injection side, there is a throttle switch, is it actuating (you can feel it click), check the readings with a multimeter against the manual.
Is it set right? The air flap in the throtte had to have a small clearance at idle, can't remembe the amount but it's a feeler blade job,
there is also usually a small bleed hole in it at the bottom, this gap and bleed hole can and do block up, on the subject of blocking up, there is a
vent from the inlet manifold to the throttle body, this also blocks up solid and stops tickover (oh it's all coming back now), then there is a
big relay thingy, the wires to it can corrode and stop you dead on the M18 at three in the morning, the by product was horrendous running. So get the
vaseline out and check every connection and that includes the fuse box as poor voltage there can cause mayhem.
I would check for leaks and blockages first, then go for a cursory electrical probing, after that the valves and timing
Short of that I would resort to the local rolling road and let the diagnostics do the work for you.
Dave's disclaimer
Hope this helps and feel free to ignore any or all of this as free advise is usually worth what you paid for it!
Ohh forgot the one that had me fooled for ages, the blooming air flap in the air flow meter had seized on the spindle so whip it off and give it a
prod, I had the wiring loom apart on mine before a proffered finger from a mate went "shouldn't this move?" Finally, the top of the
air flow meter is sometimes delved into by tuners "remapping" (bending would be more accurate) they then seal the black plastic top with
bath sealer, which doesn't really like oily, petrolly enviroments, this can fail, allowing water into the delicate circuitry inside, this also
gives false airflow readings.
There you are, plenty to go on! when you think about it, there is so much to go wrong, its a wonder they run at all !!!
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Macbeast
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| posted on 26/4/07 at 05:24 AM |
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Wow !
Not exactly suffering from Alzheimer's yet, are you ?
Well worth cutting and saving. Thanks Dave
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caber
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| posted on 26/4/07 at 06:59 AM |
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Err, with that amount of potential problems I am surprised no one has mentioned puting Bike Carbs on it yet
Caber
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flak monkey
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| posted on 26/4/07 at 07:19 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by macdave69
I found hi lift cams absolute biatches to keep any kind of tickover on, we used to run a high tickover to prevent stalling.
Weird one, my pinto sits there quite happily idling for as long as you like (at about 800rpm which is a bit on the slow side). But if I increase the
advance above 16deg (too much...) then it will start to misbehave a bit after 15+mins.
I would hazard a guess, that as you are using the stock injection system, the playing around with the cam would be what is causing at least some of
your problems, either by not having enough advance or the wrong valve timing and/or mixture. There is a special injection cam (FR34 i believe)
designed to be used with the stock injection system.
Just suggestions, which are probably crap.
David
[Edited on 26/4/07 by flak monkey]
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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phoenix70
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| posted on 26/4/07 at 09:43 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
[There is a special injection cam (FR34 i believe) designed to be used with the stock injection system.
I'm pretty sure that the cam is the special injection cam, but I didn't install it so I can't be sure.
The Car used to run fine, in fact most of last year it was fine, and nothing has really changed, so I don't think it is cam timing. A couple of
people have mentioned that is smells like it is running very rich, but I can't see that affected the idle.
Currently to get the car to idle I would need to set the tickover at approx 12-1400 rpm. Another thing I've noticed, is it is very lumpy below
2000rpm, sitting if 4 at 25mph, it can get a little jerky.
Cheers
Scott
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phoenix70
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| posted on 26/4/07 at 09:50 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by macdave69
Firstly, has it always done it?
No it hasn't, it has just developed this problem
quote:
Assuming it has
Have you had the head skimmed? If so have you fitted a vernier pulley?
Nope not skimmed the head, and don't have a vernier
quote:
With the engine running squirt plus gas in the general area of the intakes (but not into the filter) if the engine speeds up, there's an air
leak, into the inlet side.
Will give this a go
quote:
Check the fuel pressure to see if the pump is errr pumping and that the fuel filter hasn't collapsed.
It has been fitted with a brand new pump, but it was doing this on the old one too.
I will check the other items that you mentioned too.
Thanks for the info.
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zetec7
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| posted on 26/4/07 at 10:53 AM |
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Possibly a MAF or MAP sensor, or cold-start sensor malfunction? Had this problem on a Bosche-injected engine once...turned out to be a faulty
cold-start sensor...
http://www.freewebs.com/zetec7/
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delboy
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| posted on 26/4/07 at 11:02 AM |
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Can really add much to what has already been posted re diagnosis(macdave69 has covered most of the possibles) , other than to agree that the change of
cam using the standard injection system could be at least part of the problem. You say that you don't know what cam you have. If you look at the
end of the shaft at the flywheel end there is normally a manufacturers code number, this will allow identification of the cam shaft that you have,
unless it's been ground of by the engine builder ( normally only when the engine is raced and scrutineered to keep cam choice secret).
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britishtrident
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| posted on 26/4/07 at 11:24 AM |
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Faulty Coolant temperature sensor (CTS) would fit the symptom
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NS Dev
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| posted on 26/4/07 at 11:52 AM |
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Right, a few things, the blinding obvious of which everybody seems to have missed!!!
There is a "cut wire" in the loom somewhere on the ford eec4 injection system to give a different igniton advance setup, you'll need
a haynes manual or a trawl on the net, but cutting (or re joining if its already cut) will give a different advance at idle, which could help
immensely.
Next, yep, check the coolant sensor, they are only a fiver new from fuelparts uk ltd.
Then swap over airflow meters and idle valve, both pack in, and cleaning the idle valve doesn't always work.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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CairB
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| posted on 26/4/07 at 11:54 AM |
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If its the same cam then it is an FR34.
Check the continuity through the connectors from the engine to the ecu.
Also, if you have disconnected the ecu from the battery as I think that there is a procedure to go through to allow it to self calibrate.
Cheers,
Colin
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phoenix70
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| posted on 26/4/07 at 12:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Then swap over airflow meters and idle valve, both pack in, and cleaning the idle valve doesn't always work.
Does anyone know where to get a new Idle valve, or does anyone have one lying around?
I've got a space airflow meter, so I can swap that
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phoenix70
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| posted on 26/4/07 at 12:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CairB
If its the same cam then it is an FR34.
Check the continuity through the connectors from the engine to the ecu.
Also, if you have disconnected the ecu from the battery as I think that there is a procedure to g
o through to allow it to self calibrate.
Cheers,
Colin
Hi Colin,
It is the same cam, so that confirms it is a FR34
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